View Full Version : Another Mystery Ship

20-07-2008, 18:17
Hi Everyone,
I have found another photograph from my Grandfathers collection (William Thomas Clegg AB), from the time he was posted to HMS Irresistible.
Written on the back is ("W.T Clegg AB HMS Irresistible Meditaranian Fleet 1906,
JAHRIN??? at Malta in dry dock, showing in the background part of the Grand Harbour"). Its the ship in dry dock thats the mystery? To my limited knowledge there isn`t an HMS JAHRIN. Can anyone identify her please????
Best regards

20-07-2008, 18:36
Looks like a Formidable or London class battleship, which served in the Med at the time - could I suggest QUEEN?

20-07-2008, 20:58
That's a very busy picture, is it blurred in the foreground or has that been done in the scanning?

Regards, Bob.

20-07-2008, 21:32
No, that blur is on the original photo. What intrigued me was the smoke from No.2 stack?
Bob William Green

20-07-2008, 22:36
Perhaps someone was making a brew.

20-07-2008, 23:40
Is the small ginger spot in front of the gun turret Togo the ships cat?

21-07-2008, 09:41
I had`nt noticed that!
Would that we could find one of Togo on one of his deck watches!!
Well spotted.
Incidentally, glad you liked his latest portrait. He was a hansom rating.
Bob William Green

23-07-2008, 21:21
Rather than the name of a mystery ship does it refer to some navy slang for the process the ship is undergoing in the dock such as having her bottom scraped or painted ? Or perhaps the name of the dock itself.?

24-07-2008, 08:56
Many thanks for all your efforts.
I have scanned the reverse side of the photograph of HMS Irresistible and the "mystery ship" in the dry dock.
It may have been sensible to have done this in the first instance, rather than put my "interpretation", on what my Granddad has written.
The "jargon" theory is a possibility that has not be tabled.
See what you think???
Bob W. Green

HMS Bergamot
24-07-2008, 09:00
As someone who works with dentists and doctors, I am quite good at interpreting scribble, and what your grandfather has written is the word "Taken", so that it reads, "Taken at Malta in drydock."

Regards, R.

24-07-2008, 09:16
Simple when you look at it.
Yes, its the "T" that threw me. In this day and age we have become familiar with the Capital letter, written as in my inverted comas,
not the form my Granddad used and incidentally the method I was taught at school.
Many thanks for your reply and logical answer.
Bob W. Green

28-07-2008, 11:08
Hi Bob and fellow members. It appears that we have two threads regarding the Irresistible (I always have trouble typing this name!) so I am going to post these pictures here for Bobs attention and also the others concerning the Dreadnought and the Duncan.
I came across them yesterday and they were all taken 1906/7 (no sign of Togo though)
They are in a bit of a jumble but if you wander the mouse over the thumbnails you will get a rough idea as to what they are. Sorry I can't make them any bigger.

PS. Is that Togo in the pic with the officers and dog of HMS Irrestistible above the picture of the submarines?

Cheers, Bob.

28-07-2008, 17:04
Some nice pictures bob. Thank you.

29-07-2008, 02:18
Is there any background on the picture of "Dreadnought's" officers, Bob? The captain looks like Bacon, but I can't spot F.C. Dreyer who was the Lieutenant and Gunnery Officer during the Experimental Cruiser to the West Indies.

I am intrigued by the Lieutenant with the telescope under his left arm in the third row who is wearing his frock coat for some reason!!


29-07-2008, 07:34
I'm sorry Simon I can't help you there.
I have some of the names of the Midshipmen in the one picture and also the names of the Paymasters staff.


29-07-2008, 10:37
Could you add the paymaster's staff's names, please? It's always good to know who was where in our big happy fleet :D.

A couple of pics scanned from Bacon's life of Fisher;


29-07-2008, 11:28
Hi Bob (Batstger),
Yes, perhaps my "Mystery ship" photo should have been posted on the original
HMS Irresistible thread, since she is also part of that picture.
O/S cat Togo is in three of the great pictures you have posted, for which I thank you.
In numeric order, counting left to right as follows
No. 8 Obvious
No.10 Front row with second Officer to the left of the steel stay.
No. 22 Front row again with second Officer from left.
Now, to Photo image No. 15. Ships crew assembled around "A" Gun, is of great interest to me. Oh!, if only it were possible to enlarge it?!
Heres the reason for the interest.
All pictures of my Granddad in the RN, were of him "clean shaven", however whilst on HMS Irresistible, he grew a "tash". Picture of him taken on his ship, is attached, date is obvious.
He should be easy to pick out from your picture, but I cannot find him?
The rating on the right, next to the "Gunnery Officer" can be seen in your picture. If I am not mistaken? Second one in third row back, Port side.
Can I also focus for a moment on the "Gunnery Officer" in my Granddads Photo. Apologies to you Bob for using a reply to you, for this momentary diversion.
Simon (Harley), has referred to "F C Dyer", is he the Officer you refer to ??
Finally, Bob returning to the subject of Togo. I have made contact with the family of "Stoker William Thomas Burrows", who, as you know attempted to rescue Togo. They live in New Zealand and have promised to look out some photogaphs of him and maybe? of some, as yet unseen of his service with the Royal Navy.
Thanks once more
Best regards
Bob William Green

29-07-2008, 12:07
Here is the pic with the names on Simon.
Bob, on reading your note I think you have pic 15 mixed up as that one is of HMS Duncan and officers.
Anyway I'm glad you like them.


29-07-2008, 12:10
what a nice gallery Bob.
I like all onboard shots.;)
And don't worry about picrure size.
At least everyone can enlarge them by himself:D:D(I hope)

29-07-2008, 17:55
Miro - are you saying you can enlarge pictures without degredation of quality? I think not:D:D

29-07-2008, 18:52
You can up to a point, Terry!! Jim Bryce put an explanation as to how, on another thread but I can remember which one. I've used his techniques to enlarge 800 pixel photo's to 1024 pixel size and they've come out really well.

29-07-2008, 19:25
Terry, just a quick note re : enlarging photo's There are several programs on the market which can enlarge photo's without loss of quality.

They obviously take a little time to get best results and you need a fairly decent size to begin with but anything around 150 kb will enlarge quite easily to around 1mb with no loss.

Photozoompro2 is one of the best around.


29-07-2008, 19:41
Terry, here's an example. Look at Rik's badge of Pembroke he posted it is around 46kb now look at this enlargement of it at around 1.30mb

Obviously if a photo is blurred the enlargement would just enlarge the blur,
but if it's clear you should get a decent photo enlarged.
Professional photographers using digital camera's use this type of software all the time. Its the alternative to the good old fashioned photo enlargement machines.


29-07-2008, 19:50
This was the procedure as described in a Digital Camera magazine, the procedure is similar in both Photoshop and PSP:

1 Open Image Size Box
To resize an image in Photoshop you need to open the Image Size dialog box. To do this go to Image>Image Size.

2 Resample Unticked
To enlarge the document size for printing without losing quality ensure the Resample box is not ticked, and enter the physical Width or Height required. Make sure the figure in the Resolution box doesn’t fall below 150ppi.

3 Resample Ticked
To reduce or increase image size for printing, tick the Resample box and select Bicubic in the drop-down menu. Enter the physical width or height size required, set the Resolution to 300ppi

29-07-2008, 20:13
Alan - how much does this programme cost and is it easy to use?

29-07-2008, 20:14
William Thomas Clegg.

29-07-2008, 20:18
Rick and Jim. I appreciate what you are saying but as Alan described I would like to get hold of a programme that can say enlarge a clear picture from say 800x to 2000x.
From what alan was saying this is possible if you buy the sort of programme the professionals use...

29-07-2008, 20:38
I appreciate your enlarged picture of my Granddad, Thank you.
Bob William Green

29-07-2008, 20:58
I now have PhotoZoomPro 2, and it's not infallible!! You can't take a small pic and make it REALLY large (Alans badge example shows up too many pixilated parts and the pic is blurred), but it will allow you to enhance most smallish pix to fit a 1280-size screen. It's alot better than simply enlarging the usual way.

29-07-2008, 21:12
Terry, the programme costs vary mine came with a bundle I purchased from Serif for web site programming as an extra but you can buy it seperately.
As Rik points out it's not infallable, however I have tweaked here and there several times on a photo to good effect. The example I gave as Rik pointed out is not perfect, but that's because the original isn't perfect.

If you have a good clear but somewhat small photo it will give you a good clear large photo. I have several that have done just that.

It is however hard to tell before enlarging if the original is really clear, the same can be said if you took a small one to the photographers and got it enlarged, until you see it enlarged you don't know how good it is, true?

I would have no hesitation in recommending it...better than nothing eh?


29-07-2008, 21:19
I agree, Alan, It's definitely better than doing it the old fashioned way, plus it gives you loads of different examples of the pic you wish to enlarge as there are quite a few enlargement engines in-built.

29-07-2008, 21:30
Rik, I must admit I'm a big fan of it, I have a better collection as a result.

Here's another example Terry.

Here's an enlarged version of Bob's photo.

And a before and after photo of a ship.

29-07-2008, 21:48
Alan, I think that doubling the size of a photo is about the limit this software will cope with. Everything larger is blurred.

30-07-2008, 20:43
The original thread about Irresistible set me thinking and diving into my 'come-in-handy' drawer. A year or so ago, my youngest daughter came across some old postcards and passed them on to me. There were 17 covering Chatham Barracks and Sheerness Dockyard plus an odd one which was a coloured print of HMS Irresistible. It appears to be an early photograph that has been enhanced and coloured. There is no company mark but the stamp square reads, 'Printed at works in Germany'.

The Chatham and Sheerness photos are marked Gale and Polden and were part of the Wellington (Chatham) and Nelson (Sheerness) series of cards. The period is not clear but my guess from the uniform and style of caps is the early 1900s. (Knowing the level of expertise here, someone will not only know the date but the photographer's name and inside leg measurement).

I have scanned Irresistible and one of the monochrome ones of Sheerness at 300 dpi and attached the results. The latter shows what I believe is called a Moire pattern due to the printing process. I am not sure if that can be removed but if so I could scan the set and post them.


30-07-2008, 21:26
Ken what you need to do is when you scan them look for a "tick-box" marked descreening. Make sure that box is ticked and it will remove those lines...

31-07-2008, 11:18
Thanks for the tip. I will have a go later today and see what transpires.


mike d
06-08-2008, 13:26
In the photo titled "Irresistible preparing for coaling",I was curious as to why the gun turret was wrapped up like a present??

06-08-2008, 17:42
Probably to prevent the coal dust to enter iside and to spare extra cleanning.
I can immagine the mixture of unvoidable oil and grease in the turret and barrel with black coal powder:)