Ship Names

[kc]

Ever wondered why a ship is named what it is? I'll be posting several threads explaining some of the more interesting name histories. Some are named after historical figures, some after battles and events. Some are amazingly old, some are surprisingly new.

I hope it makes interesting reading.

[nechelle]

Ever wondered why a ship is named what it is? I'll be posting several threads explaining some of the more interesting name histories. Some are named after historical figures, some after battles and events. Some are amazingly old, some are surprisingly new.

I hope it makes interesting reading.

hi was wondering if you have ever come across a victor walker who served on hms shackleton,he is my grandfather have never met him and trying to trace him
many thanks

[Vivienne]

:cool:Is it possible for you to tell me please what was the reason in 1953 for naming the ship HMS Duchess my late father proudly served on. Thank You!

[stontamar]

Hi Vivienne

The first warship named DUCHESS was the captured French 24 gun ship DUCHESSE taken in 1652 and renamed when brought into English service. She was sold in 1654.

The ships naming committee, when choosing names for the Daring Class destroyers, must have considered HMS DUCHESS was a suitable name to give to one of these fine destroyers and she therefore became the 4th ship, apart from three requisitioned vessels, to carry this name and perpetuate the four Battle Honours awarded to her predecessors.

PORTLAND 1653
GABBARD 1653
SCHEVENINGEN 1653
BARFLEUR 1692

Regards

stontamar

[ceylon220]

While in Chatham Dockyard in 1955 serving aboard the frigate WHITESAND BAY, I came across the ship named TRUELOVE, I bet any matelot with the hat tally with that name got some stick ashore, why give a fighting ship a name such as that?

Dave

[astraltrader]

Wasn`t Truelove a minesweeper? Perhaps they truly loved to sweep mines?!

[NSR]

If Truelove was a sweeper the the cap tally could just have H M Minesweeper on it. That is what a lot of the lads on H M S Pickle did to avoid embarrassment.

Ken

[Joseph]

Why do that when onboard 'HMS Pickle' such a famous ship, celebrated every year by Senior Rates in the Royal navy. Any mention of Trafalgar is good for a beer.

Regards Charles

[doug.birch]

They often use names of former ships, Fencer,my ship was re-issued to a training Patrol Boat, but unfortunately they,put GAY in front of it,thus it became Gay Fencer,who picks such names.Doug.Birch Ex.Fencer

[BB60]

I remember reading years ago that RN ship's helicopters also have names that relate to the ship. I guess that explains why HMS Brazen had a helicopter named Hussy.

[NSR]

In the days when the Gay (Gas turbine engined) and Dark (Deltic engined) series of Patrol Boats were being experimented with the word gay had a different meaning. I remember going to a variety show at the Pompey Empire called, 'Let's go Gay with Davy Kaye'. Word meanings and connotations change with time which is possibly why an item that is flammable is described as being inflammable.

Ken

[Woodbutcher]

HMS Brazen should have had another helicopter, they could have called that one, Bitch. ;) Dagwood

[Tiornu]

There was an HMS Cuirass. Fotrunately it was a small requisitioned craft. Otherwise I suspect it would have been the cause of many a bar fight.

[Harley]

I always like the rationale Jim Lamb (James B. Lamb of "The Corvette Navy" fame) put forward - psychological warfare and morale boosting. The crew of the good ship "Buttercup" for example would feel slightly superior having sunk a U-Boat with such a silly-named ship, and I can't imagine the Germans would feel too proud about it either.

The humiliation of being sunk or damaged by a "Snowdrop", or a "Begonia"!!

Simon

[oldsalt]

Be thankful the Flower Class never used Pansy. The story goes that the name Weston-super-Mare was considered but decided against because matelots would call it Aggie-on-horseback! Just a passing note previous ships I served in have had their names re-used in my lifetime, they are :- Vanguard, Ark Royal, Vigilant, Tyne, Unicorn.

[alanbenn]

Keith, Hms Heartease 'flower class' was laid down as Hms Pansy but her name was changed prior to launch.


Regards
Alan

[Tiornu]

There were actually three ships named Pansy during WWI, not to mention a Pansy III.

[dennis a feary]

Ceylon DAVID, HMS TRUELOVE was named after a RN Captain of that name (I believe) !
He served in some great battle (say) with NELSON / St Vincent ??
T'is only a `thought' that I offer from `back of brain' !!

Sadsac

[Pat in Halifax]

Thankfully, the RCN opted to name Canadian 'Flowers' after communities. The only exception was a group of ten built for the RN but turned over to their Canadian crews and retaining their names. Even still, they were not overly feminine: Bittersweet, Fennel, Windflower, Snowberry to name but a few. Actually, if one reads the story of LCdr Shadforth and his escapades the night before sailing out of St Johns Nfld with Spikenard only to be sunk 9 days later; 10 Feb 1942, the story is most notably macho-ish!
I think the only oddball in the RCN seems to have been HMCS Loos, a Battleclass trawler serving during the First World War.

[Dreadnought]

From time to time, I like dipping into "The Naval Review" volumes, both as a source of reference, but also the correspondence often has the controvesy and banter of this Forum. I thought these exchanges from the 1935 volume were interesting ....


The recent decision to alter certain ships' names from something of classical origin to names of towns is regretted by the writer of this article. The naming of ships after towns and counties may (or may not) give gratification to the locality concerned. But that is not the only consideration. There is the effect on the bluejacket to be taken into account, and I suspect that a territorial nomenclature is distasteful to those who man our ships. I imagine that their distaste is probably more unconscious than conscious, but I believe it is there all the same, and it is likely that a referendum would bring it out. It arises, I believe, from the natural desire of a sailor to feel that his ship is all his own. This sense of exclusive association-I don't say ownership-is weakened if he feels he is sharing his ship in however small a way with some outside body, and this I suggest is what happens in the case of county-class and town-class ships. The sailor inevitably feels that the town or county after which the ship is named is a rival for that claim on the ship which he feels should be all his own.

The writer remembers reading an article in the R.U.S.I. Journal a year or two 'ago in which very similar opinions were expressed about the territorial titles of regiments. The author of that article considered that the old practice of calling regiments by a number was far more satisfactory, and for the very same reason that a numbered regiment felt that it shared its title with no one else.

If then the claims of the officers and men who man the ships are in conflict with those of the towns and counties after whom the ships are named, on which side should the decision be given ? Even supposing the claims of each side were equally strongly held, can it be doubted for a moment that the paramount consideration should be the feelings of those who spend their lives in the ships ? I say advisedly, " supposing the claims of each side were equally strongly held." It is however at least open to doubt whether a " name-ship " makes any really strong appeal to a county or town. There is at least one case onrecord where the lord lieutenant of a county refused to admit that a county-class cruiser was named after the county, but stated that she was named after the duke who took his title from the county.

If, then, town and county names for ships are really unsatisfactory, what are likely to constitute the most desirable names ? I suggest that people's names, even possibly great admirals' names, are open to the same drawback as towns and counties. I suggest that the ideal names of ships are those which are entirely impersonal, and that probably the most effective are those indicative of qualities or characteristics. Names such as Powerful, Terrible, Daring, Invincible, Indomitable, Dreadnought ; all
such names carry a stimulus with them. While the captain of the Daring can call to his men to live up to the ship's name, the captain of the Durham cannot expect to evoke much enthusiasm by calling upon his ship's company to remember the distressed areas.

Next after names indicative of qualities, I should put previous ships' names of whatever nature, so long as they are impersonal. Birds, animals, objects of mythology, naval battles, all are probably equally good.

The writer has a personal preference for the more ancient ship names,mostly an account of their more poetic sound, such as Swiftsure and Bonaventure ; while it is with almost a feeling of grievance that he reflects that for centuries the magic name Golden Hind has not figured in the Navy List.

Phoenix


And here was the first reply .........


I agreewith Phoenix, though it is only fair to remember that town and county names are as old as the 17th century, and many have famous records-e.g., the Monmouth, Bedford, Gloucester, Southampton. Surely the great thing is to keep alive the names of famous ships, which I fancy our masters try to do? I would rather see the names of famous flagships-e.g., Barfieur, Britannia, Formidable, Prince George, Revenge, Royal George, Royal Sovereign, Saint George, Triumph, Vanguard, Venerable-than the names of the admirals themselves.

Here are some " impersonal " names in the navy of Queen Anne, some of them inherited from her predecessors and all well known :- Bornadventure, Centurion, Dreadnought, Eagle, Garland, Lion, Nightingale, Pearl, Phoenix, Resolution, Revenge, Ruby, Sapphire, Superb, Swiftsure, Tiger, Triton, Triecm$h, Vanguard, Warspight. I do not forget, of course, that one or two of them are at present in use.

H.I


Since these exchanges, another World War and other naval exploits such as the Falklands have passed. Do these views still ring true tioday I wonder?

[Dreadnought]

Another 'post' on the ship's names debate in The Naval Review 1935 ....


While agreeing in the main with the remarks of Phoenix on this subject, I feel that there is another important consideration to be examined which has so far not been dealt with.

There is, as Phoenix points out, a strong case for discontinuing the naming of warships after counties, especially those inland, having scarcely any connection with the sea, and probably caring even less
about it. Even with those on our seaboard, only a very limited number of their population lead a seafar'ing life, while by the diversity of their means of livelihood they cannot, as a whole, feel much proprietary interest in a ship called after them.

On the other hand the case of the seaport towns, large or small, is surely very different. In war time the Navy is very greatly dependent on the men of the Royal Naval Reserve, who come to a great extent from the ports and fishing villages around our coasts. When one considers the work done by these men ]in the late war, in anti-submarine, convoying and coast patrols, and the great number of them who lost their lives in the Navy, it is surely quite appropriate that their memory should be honoured in this way. Nor do I believe that any sailor would object to the nomenclature in these circumstances; I certainly should not.

Moreover, I consider that the seaport towns feel a very definite interest and pride in the naming of a ship after them. I can quote an example. During the last autumn cruise of the Home Fleet my ship
called for a few days at just such a town on the East Coast of Scotland. After a civic lunch which I attended, the Mayor, in his speech, referred to the recent naming of a sloop after another town a little way down the coast. While in no way denying the right of this last town, he said that he considered the claims of his own were equally good. He gave figures showing the great number of its population who had served in the R.N.R. and lost their lives in the Great War and of the large percentage enrolled at the present day. He told of the great interest that was felt in the Navy, and, judging by the reception we were given, I have no doubt of it. He said, also, that he had written to the Admiralty stating these views, and thought this a fitting occasion on which to express them. I am pleased to see that he has since had his wish.

This, admittedly, is a single instance, and forms the limit of my experience; but I feel that what is true of one port is probably true of another, and that, in any case, in these days, it is a good thing to give
the seafaring taxpayer a personal interest in his source of protection.

Veng


and finally ....


The article and comment on this subject in the February number of The Naval Review expresses very much what has been in the mind of the writer for a long time. Every year, in common with certain others interested in the same subject, he has made out a list of names for the new ships, only to be disappointed when the names are announced! The main complaint the writer has to make is in the introduction of new names which, while suitable in many cases, are used in preference to older names which still remain unused. Some names are definitely inappropriate: Glowworm is a glaring example of this.

It is worth while scanning the lists in detail; for, as is evident from the remarks of Phoenix and H.I , the subject is one which excites interest in the Service and is of some importance. The county cruisers were well named with one exception-the Shropshire. There is no reason why a ship should not bear this name; but there are plenty of good reasons why such names as Monmouth, Bedford, Essex and Lancaster should have had preference. There can be very little excuse for introducing the name Sheffield, though it is admitted that it may be good propaganda. It is suggested that, as ships are paid for by the taxpayer, it is only reasonable to pay him the compliment of naming some after towns and counties. But there is no need to break fresh ground.

When we come to the destroyers, however, we find some very unsuitable names. The revival of Tudor names is all very nice, but have not some of them a somewhat sentimental savour? Dainty is a yacht like name well suited to a surveying ship, perhaps ; but to a destroyer no ! The A, B, and C classes were all well named, but when we come to the D's we find Dainty, Delight and Duchess: it is suggested that Desperate, Dosher and Driver would have been more in keeping with the nature of the vessels. Is Escapade a suitable substitute for Espiegle? As the Naval Correspondent of The Times pointed out, the name means " a mischievous caprice." In the movements of ships a short time ago the name was given as Esplanade ! All the F names are good, but the G class contains Grenade and Gallant, most suitable for destroyers, it is agreed (though Glowworm is not !), but why not Gadfly , Garnet, Ghurka, Gorgon or Goshawk? Again, in the H class we have Hereward, Hostile and Hyperion. The last is not even appropriate, as the Titan who originated the name had no particular connection with the sea and only one ship has ever borne the name before. Why have the fine destroyer names of Haughty and Hornet been omitted? Hound, Hope and Highflyer might well have been revived.

The scheme of naming the new minesweeping sloops after the old torpedo gunboats is excellent, but the small coastal sloops named after birds might well have received more striking names such as Lively, Attack and Menace. Even if the bird names were good, surely there is no excuse for introducing new ones such as Pufin. One visualizes a football match between the Pufflin and the Glowworm with the supporters on the touchline urging on their sides with cries of " Play up Puffins!" and " Come on Glowworms!" On the whole, taking the country at large and the Service in particular, it ,is probable that the most popular selection of names for the new cruisers would have been Dreadnought, Ocean, Swiftsure, Triumph and Formidable.

In conclusion, may we hope to see some " Royal " names again soon ? Royal George and Prince of Wales are names wich should not be long absent from the Navy List.

TEDIU


The comment about naming a ship Sheffield in the second paragraph of TEIDU's post has a big OUCH factor now ..!!

[doug.birch]

Hi, Dreanought.The long forgotten name was reclaimed when they called the shore base in Sydney HMS Golden Hind. Doug. Birch

[Don Boyer]

So here's an American "former naval person" sticking his nose in. One of my favorite books is Manning and Walker's "British Warship Names." I enjoy reading the introductory passages and of course the dictionary part itself is a real romp through history, ancient and modern.

I've always felt the British have a leg up in finding fine names for warships. The dreanoughts overflow with the names of mighty warriors of the past and names that really sound like they belong to the type of ship they represent. Thunderer, Monarch, Conqueror...of course a Warspite to confuse those who don't read the history books...Bellrophon, Vanguard, Superb, Swiftsure...America was never able to follow that pattern. Of course the great latin and greek references don't hurt either. Later on, it got a bit squirrely, but with huge numbers of ships needing names, that's not surprising.

The US used to have a good system going, even though it relied on rather dry state and city names, along with a few famous battles, including those with some people from across the Atlantic early on, things like that. Nowadays, it seems every other ship has to be named for an idiot politician, which I dislike intensely. Give me an Emperor of India any day... :)

[Ednamay]

:DSo here's an American "former naval person" sticking his nose in. One of my favorite books is Manning and Walker's "British Warship Names." I enjoy reading the introductory passages and of course the dictionary part itself is a real romp through history, ancient and modern.

I've always felt the British have a leg up in finding fine names for warships. The dreanoughts overflow with the names of mighty warriors of the past and names that really sound like they belong to the type of ship they represent. Thunderer, Monarch, Conqueror...of course a Warspite to confuse those who don't read the history books...Bellrophon, Vanguard, Superb, Swiftsure...America was never able to follow that pattern. Of course the great latin and greek references don't hurt either. Later on, it got a bit squirrely, but with huge numbers of ships needing names, that's not surprising.

The US used to have a good system going, even though it relied on rather dry state and city names, along with a few famous battles, including those with some people from across the Atlantic early on, things like that. Nowadays, it seems every other ship has to be named for an idiot politician, which I dislike intensely. Give me an Emperor of India any day... :)


Some of these very old names had some very odd 'transliterations', the only one I can remember was 'Billy Ruffian' for Bellerophon!!

Edna

[NSR]

Edna, others included:-
Agmemnon - 'Aggie Weston'
Superb - 'Super B'
Flamingo - 'Flaming O'
Sharpshooter - unmentionable in polite society.
Lots of others that I've forgotten.

Ken

[Ednamay]

Thanks, Ken, anyone got anymore ???

Edna

[steve roberts]

Hi all.Ships names and nicknames abound.Royal soveriegn for instance being "Tiddly Quid" Jack will always find a nickname for his ship! Some names astound me however.I know all T Class submarines were started with the letter T,but who in the hell thought of TIPTOE and why. Here's one for our American friends.I know France helped you a lot in your War of Independance,but who the heck was BON HOMME RICHARD? Regards Steve.:confused:

66257 We come unclean oops Unseen

[tjstoneman]

Whilst Wikipedia is by no means authoritative (do I hear "You can say that again"?), it has a listing of a fair number of nicknames under "List of warships by nickname". However, as well as the usual words of caution about that particular website, I'm not convinced that all of the nicknames given were used by Jolly Jack (or his equivalent in other navies) - some may have been invented by pressmen or other writers. Still, the webpage may jog a few memories.

Tim

[alanbenn]

Hi all.Ships names and nicknames abound.Royal soveriegn for instance being "Tiddly Quid" Jack will always find a nickname for his ship! Some names astound me however.I know all T Class submarines were started with the letter T,but who in the hell thought of TIPTOE and why. Here's one for our American friends.I know France helped you a lot in your War of Independance,but who the heck was BON HOMME RICHARD? Regards Steve.:confused:




Steve, Hms/m Tiptoe was given the name by none other than Sir Winston Churchill in 1944. He actually gave names to quite a few submarines.

Regards
Alan

[steve roberts]

Thanks Alan. I bow to his superior judgment.I wonder if he had just seen the filmm "The Red Shoes"? I believe Tiptoe had amongst her trophies a pair of Moira Andersons ballet shoes(Now in the sub museum) Cheers Steve.:D

66274 We come unclean oops Unseen

[steve roberts]

Hi Alan. Could this be anything to do with Churchill saying that he wanted sailors to die for a ships name and not a number.A lot of subs in World War 2 had only numbers ie P123 not names,and a number due to be renamed were lost before the paperwork was complete? Cheers Steve.:confused:

66278 We come unclean oops Unseen

[alanbenn]

Steve, you are correct with your theory. Churchill insisted that the boats all be given names. I don't know how many were lost before they were named.

Stopfords book gives an example of Hms/m Truant which had a badge of a dog loose on a lead, no pattern of it exists and so the badge was never officially produced, however I think there are several unofficial badges of the design around.

Regards
Alan

[steve roberts]

Hi Alan. Sorry to be so long in getting back to you on your last post,had to go down to the sub museum to look at the memorial.Its now there,though it used to stand on the Thames Embankment. There were 10 subs went down with just Pennant numbers and no names.H31,H49,P32,P33,P36,P39,P514,and P311.There were then of course 8 X-Craft,3,9,8,5,6,7,10,22. Many regards Steve.:(

[Anson6423]

Hello All.

I have heard that HMS Glamorgan was nick named The Glamourous Organ and ; HMS Invincible = Invisible

A question for your combined extensive knowledge. Was there ever a ship named HMS Holbrook?

Yours Aye

Andy

[ceylon220]

HMS TRUELOVE (J303) Launched in 1943. contract to USN cancelled, RN took the contract on her in 44 and was scrapped in 1957, I last saw her alongside at Chatham dockyard in 1955.

Pictured here in 1947 in GrandHarbour, Malta with a County class cruiser in the back ground---any ideas of the name of the cruiser sitting there?

[John O'Callaghan]

Hi Steve! Re your post 27 I believe the Bonne Homme Richard (Bonny Dick)was a ship the US took over from the French at about the time of the Revolutionary War.She was named after Benjamin Franklin who was called that by the French during his time as Ambassador to France. I don't know the original name.of the ship.
Cheers John O'C.

[steve roberts]

HiJohn.Thanks a million for that info..Many Regards...Steve.:)

[Scurs]

Other than "220" which our friend Dave220 will be familiar, nicknames I recall from my own time in mob:-

"Daffy".............LLANDAFF
"The White Tornado"..............AJAX
"Queen Bee".......BARROSA
"Dildo".............DIDO
"Black Brock"...BROCKLESBY (Hunt Class Destroyer)
"Chi"............CHICHESTER

[ceylon220]

Was it the RED PLUM for the ENDEVOUR?

[steve roberts]

Hi Dave the Endurance was indeed known as the Red Plum. Also Canberra when STUFT during the Falkland Conflict was known as The Great White Whale!

D Regards Steve.

[Jan Steer]

John O'C
Bonne Homme Richard was originally "Duc du Duras", a frigate but to start with she was an East Indiaman. Hope this is helpful.

best wishes
Jan

[Jan Steer]

Andy I can find no record of an HMS Holbrook though others with greater knowledge than me may come across one. Ships have always had nicknames.
In Nelson's fleet, for instance, the Bellerophon was always known as, "Billy Ruffian".
In more recent times HMS Weston Super Mare was "Aggies on horseback"
In my own time I remember:
Bulwark - the Rusty B
Cleopatra - Cleo
Charybdis - Cherry B
Hermione - Hermy one
Ajax - the white tornado
Ariadne - Harry had me

There must be many more

best wishes
Jan

[whalerman]

I remember these from my time.

Duncan - Drunken
Lincoln - Stinkin
Penelope - pronounced as Antelope
Antelope - Pronounced as Penelope
Bucchante - Bagshantie

[Scurs]

Whalerman...........thanks for nudging memory.......of course....2nd FS.......

"Drunken" DUNCAN (as you mention)
"Krabby K" KEPPEL
"Mad" MURRAY (seldom entered harbour below 15 knots)
"Grubby" GRAFTON
:D:D

[steve roberts]

A cople more nicknames.
Dreadnought (submarine. "Doughnut".
Hermes111 "Happy H"
Wizard "Merlin".
Merlin. "Wizard"
Such is Jack's inverted sense of humour.Regards Steve.

[Anson6423]

Andy I can find no record of an HMS Holbrook though others with greater knowledge than me may come across one. best wishes
Jan

Jan.

Thanks for looking

Andy

[Scurs]

Andy - whilst no "HMS Holbrook", there is of course "Royal Hospital School, Holbrook" (Suffolk), which has strong RN connections.

[whalerman]

Whalerman...........thanks for nudging memory.......of course....2nd FS.......

"Drunken" DUNCAN (as you mention)
"Krabby K" KEPPEL
"Mad" MURRAY (seldom entered harbour below 15 knots)
"Grubby" GRAFTON
:D:D
Hi Scurs Keppel was the "Krazy K" when I was onboard.

[whalerman]

As I can recall HMS Claverhouse,Forth RNR unit attached minesweeper was called HMS Killiecrankie for years. this was to commemorate the victory at the Battle of Killiecrankie by John Grahem of Claverhouse "Bonnie Dundee".
Then someone down in the Admiralty must have noticed that it was the Government forces that were defeated at Killiecrankie by the Covenanters.
I imagine the conversation was on the lines "Can't have a naval ship named after a bunch of rebels, can we". So the attached minesweeper then kept its own name, the last I think was Kirkliston.

[tonclass]

As I can recall HMS Claverhouse,Forth RNR unit attached minesweeper was called HMS Killiecrankie for years. this was to commemorate the victory at the Battle of Killiecrankie by John Grahem of Claverhouse "Bonnie Dundee".
Then someone down in the Admiralty must have noticed that it was the Government forces that were defeated at Killiecrankie by the Covenanters.
I imagine the conversation was on the lines "Can't have a naval ship named after a bunch of rebels, can we". So the attached minesweeper then kept its own name, the last I think was Kirkliston.

Last Forth RNR Ton Class ship was KEDLESTON (1977 - 1985). Then they must have been given a River Class.

[Anson6423]

Andy - whilst no "HMS Holbrook", there is of course "Royal Hospital School, Holbrook" (Suffolk), which has strong RN connections.

Hello Scurs.

Yes, I went to RHS from 1968 - 73. I just wondered if there had ever been a ship named for the village of Holbrook.

Yours Aye

Andy

[SCRG1970]

Just came across these nicknames , all referring to WW I ships

AMAZON............"AM-A-DUD" reference to her long trials program.

AMBUSCADE......."AM-BUST-AGAIN" due to her early machinery troubles.

AJAX................."QUEEN OF HEARTS" Why ????

ARIADNE............"HARRY AGONY" or "HAIRY ANNIE".

CONQUEROR........"CORNCURER" just another example of Jacks love of mis-pronunciation.

Regards

Gerry

[MelQuick]

What was the longest ship name?

The Italians had a cruiser called Luigi di Savoia Duca Degli Abruzzi. Any contributions longer than this???

Mel

[culverin]

Ref # 53

The Gabon Navy had a patrol ship named:-
President Albert Bernard Bongo.
Oops, missed by 1 letter !
In a previous life he had been a drummer. but not in a rock and roll band i hope.

[kelp]

There was a Soviet Navy cruiser called October Revolution, Sverdlov class I think. Its full official name was TCHETYRNADTSATAIA GODOVSTCHINA OKTIABRSKOI REVOLIOUTSII.

[oldsalt]

That would never fit on a cap tally. :rolleyes::rolleyes:;)

[culverin]

Re # 56
Of course it would not fit an a cap tally.

It did not even fit on the ship !

[MelQuick]

There was a Soviet Navy cruiser called October Revolution, Sverdlov class I think. Its full official name was TCHETYRNADTSATAIA GODOVSTCHINA OKTIABRSKOI REVOLIOUTSII.

Hell's bells - that must be the winner! (unless, of course, anyone knows a longer name)

Mel

[Scurs]

Probably just used the first letters of each word, rearranged them and called it "Grot" for short! :D

[Francis Stanley]

HMS Wotton was known as the rotten wotton when on the Portland squadron, HMS Kirkliston was the "Kirkleston" and the Shoulton was "shiny shoults"

[chris westwood]

In the days when the Gay (Gas turbine engined) and Dark (Deltic engined) series of Patrol Boats were being experimented with the word gay had a different meaning. I remember going to a variety show at the Pompey Empire called, 'Let's go Gay with Davy Kaye'. Word meanings and connotations change with time which is possibly why an item that is flammable is described as being inflammable.

Ken
pedant mode
inflammable is correct.
flammable means it will burn
inflammable means bursts into flames -'inflames'

the word 'gay' has had several meanings down the centuries. For instance 200 years ago someone who was gay was a prostitute. Then it it evolved into being happy and having a good time and now is used to denote homosexual men: ain't no big deal.

[chris westwood]

the black swan class frigate Flamingo was known as the 'flaming joe'. At one time HMAS Hobart was called the oxydol because her camouflage resembled the epnoymous soap powder carton. The converted tug HMS Wakeful was very unreliable and was known as HMS wasteful, whilst the cruiser HMAS Adelaide, which took ages to build was called the 'long delayed'

[Blackbeard]

Hell's bells - that must be the winner! (unless, of course, anyone knows a longer name)

Mel

Once there was an GDR merchant called ''Fliegerkosmonaut der DDR - Siegmund Jaehn".

btw ... the mate was the 1st German in space.

[chris westwood]

In the days when the Gay (Gas turbine engined) and Dark (Deltic engined) series of Patrol Boats were being experimented with the word gay had a different meaning. I remember going to a variety show at the Pompey Empire called, 'Let's go Gay with Davy Kaye'. Word meanings and connotations change with time which is possibly why an item that is flammable is described as being inflammable.

Ken
apologies my mistake

[NSR]

After all this time I wondered why my ears were burning.

Ken

[Anson6423]

How about HMS Beverley? Was there ever such a ship?

[Teuchter]

Thanks, Ken, anyone got anymore ???

Edna

Hi Edna

HMS Undaunted was known as "UNWANTED"

[Clive 58]

found this article here http://zoo.nightstar.net/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=8474 and thought you'd all enjoy it...


"I'm a US Navy Commander when I'm not gardening or singing. This article was sent me by another Navy officer. Enjoy!
Lynn T

What's in a Name? "I NAME THIS SHIP........ "

Recently, for reasons too dull to explain, I was attempting to discover the names of battleships which served with the Royal Navy during the Second World War. The reference librarian provided me with a huge volume which listed the names of every British warship ever built, and as I leafed through the index, I was impressed by the quality of the names that the British have given their warships.

HMS RELENTLESS, HMS REPULSE, HMS RESOLUTION; names to gladden the heart of every true Brit. Names redolent of courage and firm-jawed determination - HMS SCEPTRE, HMS SCIMITAR, HMS SEADOG, HMS SPANKER - HMS SPANKER? It had to be a misprint, but when I looked at the relative page there it was, HMS SPANKER, minesweeper. I turned back to the index and soon discovered that HMS SPANKER was not the only warship to bear a silly name. A quick check unearthed the destroyers HMS FAIRY and HMS FROLIC, the light cruiser, HMS SAPPHO and the corvette, HMS PANSY.

My first assumption was that these names had been chosen by some fresh-faced innocent unaware of their connotations, but a careful reading of the index suggested that the choice of such names was deliberate and malicious. I have no proof for my theory, but I strongly suspect that they were the creations of an embittered clerk.
He was a minor bureaucrat who had once dreamed of becoming a naval hero, a second Nelson or Benbow, but had been turned down for active service on the grounds of flat feet and myopia. The Sea Lords, kindly and foolishly, gave him an office job in the Admiralty. There, as he brooded upon the shattering of his ambitions, his envy of the jolly Jack Tars serving in His Majesty's ships turned to hatred and then into a desire to humiliate those who lived a life on the ocean wave.

His big break came when he got a job in the Ship's Names Department. Having started with HMS PANSY, HMS FAIRY and HMS SPANKER, he moved into sexually suggestive names - MS TEASER, HMS TICKLER, HMS TORRID, HMS THRUSTER and HMS THRASHER. Not content with the damage that these names must have caused to morale he followed up with HMS INCONSTANT, HMS INSOLENT, HMS TRUANT, HMS DWARF and HMS DORIS.

The man must have been twisted, but he was no mean amateur psychologist. Would a hard-pressed admiral be cheered by the news that HMS DORIS and HMS DWARF (a cruiser and gunboat combination that sounds like an avant-garde cabaret act) were steaming to his aid? Could he be certain that HMS TRUANT would turn up? That HMS INCONSTANT wouldn't change sides, or that HMS INSOLENT wouldn't reply to his signals with a stream of abuse? This evil-minded functionary worked hard to destroy fighting spirit, carefully calculating the result of calling a ship HMS HAZARD. The cry, "HAZARD to port!" must have disrupted countless naval exercises and I strongly suspect that he tried to name a destroyer HMS MUTINY, thinking of the chaos that would result from the signal "MUTINY in Portsmouth". Someone spotted this and changed his proposed name from the English MUTINY to the French MUTINE, hoping that the ship would stir up trouble on courtesy visits to French ports.

If my theory is correct, that someone was Clerk No.2. He worked in the same office as Clerk No.1, but his history and beliefs were very different. He had been invalided out of the Navy after a distinguished career and was a ferocious xenophobe who believed that the British had the right to intimidate anyone who stood in their way. His existence is demonstrated by further study of the list of names. Most people would consider names like HMS CONQUEROR, HMS TERROR and HMS VENGEANCE adequate for the purpose of frightening Britain's enemies. Not Clerk No.2. He thought them namby-pamby and decided to rectify the situation. He wasn't as prolific as Clerk No.1, but he did his best christening such vessels as HMS ARROGANT, HMS IMPERIALIST, HMS SAVAGE, HMS SPITEFUL, HMS SURLY and HMS TYRANT.
His finest hour came when he got the job of thinking up names beginning with V, he came up with HMS VANDAL, HMS VENOMOUS, HMS VINDICTIVE and HMS VIOLENT.

He too was a good psychologist - nobody who had dared to challenge Britain could fail to be moved by the news that HMS SPITEFUL, HMS VIOLENT and HMS VINDICTIVE were turning up to sort them out. In later years, as he sat writing letters to the Eastbourne Gazette demanding the reintroduction of public flogging for litter louts, he must have regretted not calling a ship HMS VICIOUS. However, he probably consoled himself with the thought that Clerk No.1 didn't get much of a look in on the V's. He would have christened the ships VACUOUS, VILE, VERMINOUS and VENEREAL. As it was he only managed HMS VANITY, which was presumably a sister ship of HMS NARCISSUS. Clerk No.2 also allowed the problems of day-to-day existence to intrude into his work, though only after rows with his wife, hence HMS TERMAGANT, HMS VIRAGO and HMS TIRADE.

I don't know for how many years they worked in the same office, but it must have been a fraught relationship. Each probably spent most of his time trying to trump the names of the other. Clerk No.1 christened HMS PANSY, No.2 responded with HMS MANLY. Clerk No.1 - HMS FAIRY, Clerk No.2 - HMS VIRILE. And so it went on until they retired and the ships they had named were either sunk or scrapped.

Now our ships have boringly correct names, which is a pity, for names could make a difference. A truly chauvinistic government would do well to study the names dreamed up by Clerk No.2. If we can no longer terrify opponents with the size of our navy, we could try to frighten them with aggressive nomenclature. A good start would be to retrieve the name HMS VIOLENT and call sister ships HMS PSYCHOPATHIC, HMS BLOOD-CRAZED and HMS CRIMINALLY INSANE. The Vandal class could include HMS RAM RAIDER, HMS HEADCASE and HMS TERMINATOR.

Of course, a more progressive government might go for names which reflected the concerns of the Left - HMS BLACK SECTIONS, HMS STOP CLAUSE 28, HMS UNILATERALIST and HMS BINDING DECISION OF THE PARTY CONFERENCE.

In any event, the name of the ship doesn't appear to have affected its ability to fight, HMS TRUANT sank the KARLSRUHE, HMS WALLFLOWER
and HMS INCONSTANT accounted for several U-boats and I've no doubt that other ships with ridiculous names had excellent war records. But it is hard not to imagine the crew of HMS NARCISSUS leaning over the side to admire their reflections in the water, or the crew of HMS SPANKER being accosted by leather-clad masochists in dockside bars.
The crews of such ships must have been relieved when security considerations temporarily ended the practice of having the ship's
name emblazoned on the cap-band."

[steve roberts]

Hi Clive.The commander you quote must have been unaware that ships were named after their class or leader of the class in destroyers.The unfortunate ones were the flower class corvettes in WW2.Pansy and primrose did not really lighten the hearts of those who served on them,but I suspect they were running out of lesser flower known names as so many of these ships were being turned out.
Many Regards Steve.

[tjstoneman]

In post #66, Anson asked about HMS BEVERLEY. There has been one ship of this name - see, for example, http://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Chrono-11US-Beverley.htm.
Tim

[Anson6423]

Thanks Tim, an interesting link.

Andy

[siggy63]

Oh how naughty.

"I Name This Ship" article comes from Medal News from a few years back....

Fancy copying that and then posting it on the net, thats a few lashes from the Ch Bosuns Mate during the forenoon watch then... LOL

Danny

[Scurs]

Now THERE is a thought Danny...........getting "lashed up" by the Buffer! :D

[ollie]

The U.S. Coast Guard had a class of cutters called bouy tenders to work on aids to navigation. They were named after trees and bushes. Some of the more well known ones in my old Coastie days were: Sassafras, Red Beech, Mariposa, Evergreen, Blackhaw, Lilac, etc. But my favorite name was the USCGC Firebush :-). They were lightly armed with a 3"50 if law enforcement duties were required.

ollie

[mustang ali]

I can't believe in the centuries the Royal Navy has been established as the "Senior Service", there has never been a ship called HMS Thunderchild.

Yes I know HMS Thunderchild is a fictional ship from the pages of H.G. Wells' epic "War of the Worlds", but what better battle honour is there than being sunk in battle by invading Martians.

The steamer began to move slowly away - but on the landward horizon appeared the silhouette of a Fighting Machine. Another came, and another, striding over hills and trees, plunging far out to sea and blocking the exit of the steamer. Between them lay the silent, grey Ironclad 'Thunder Child'. Slowly it moved towards shore; then, with a deafening roar and whoosh of spray, it swung about and drove at full speed towards the waiting Martians From Jeff Wayne's "War of the Worlds"

[Anson6423]

Talking of ships' names; I was told, by an old seadog, and I don't know how true this is but here goes.

Apparently, there was a training ship in Plymouth called HMS Impregnable. During WWII the training ship was coverted into a Wrennery. Of course, they had to change the name!!!

Does anyone know what the new name was?

Cheers

Andy

[mustang ali]

Andy,

From what i can tell it was turned into a comms school, but if it were turned into a wrennery, you would probably be right unless the wrens were "happy" in nature:D

[MelQuick]

Hi Everyone

Does anyone have a comprehensive list of Royal Navy ship names, including minor ships?

Every list on the internet has gaps in it and I'm looking for a complete list - from Garland in 1242, onwards!

Mel

[culverin]

Hello Mel and your # 78
The short answer is no, nowhere is there any lists which incorporates the names of every warship that ever served the RN. I have, as many others probably have too, dozens of books that purport to do this, but each time frame is short although the 20th Century is very thoroughly and comprehensively covered. Pre 1700 and you stand no chance, i doubt half the sailors then even knew the name of the ship they served on.
If you start one now, you may have it ready for publication by about the year 2110, although it has been attempted back in the 1920's and abandoned after 1 volume. The task is far too mind boggling. Sleep on it if i were you, but it may appear easier if you start at Z and work backwards and i will bet Zulu is not first.

[Destroyerman]

Talking of ships' names; I was told, by an old seadog, and I don't know how true this is but here goes.

Apparently, there was a training ship in Plymouth called HMS Impregnable. During WWII the training ship was coverted into a Wrennery. Of course, they had to change the name!!!

Does anyone know what the new name was?

Cheers

Andy

Andy,

this is the totally glib answer to your question that you might probably expect from an old Chief Stoker.

HMS BEAVER. :D

But I believe the probable answer is that IMPREGNABLE became the training ship HMS KENT in 1862 and thereafter the training ship HMS CALEDONIA from November 1888.

This could have led to the naming of the WRNS Barracks at Southsea as Duchess of Kent Barracks, after the training ship KENT.

Sandy.

[ekd]

Hi Everyone

Does anyone have a comprehensive list of Royal Navy ship names, including minor ships?

Every list on the internet has gaps in it and I'm looking for a complete list - from Garland in 1242, onwards!

Mel

Realistically, Everyone would have to agree when the "RN" was formed, as a starting point at least.

This in itself is a major topic of debate.

But it's a great project for someone to tackle!

Then after all that is settled and agreed; the list might be started to be compiled.

Good luck sailor!

[alanbenn]

The WRNS were re-formed during the second world war after being disbanded in 1919, at the time they were re-formed HM the queen mother, Then Queen was made patron.
H.R.H The Duchess of Kent, widow of the Duke of Kent, became President of the WRNS. The barracks I believe were named in her honour as the founder President......although I maybe wrong in this assumption.

Regards
Alan

[oldsalt]

I always thuought Impregnable was the original WRNS camp at St Budeaux , Plymouth.:confused::confused:;)

[1947graham]

Does anyone know whom the `R' class WWI destroyer HMS Rosalind was named for?

[Teuchter]

I always thuought Impregnable was the original WRNS camp at St Budeaux , Plymouth.:confused::confused:;)

I'm with Kieth on this one!

The WRNS Quarters in Pompey were called the Duchess of Kent Barracks

[tjstoneman]

Post #84 - I suspect the destroyer HMS ROSALIND would have been named for the heroine of Shakespeare's As You Like It; the trawler of the Second World War certainly was.
Tim
Edit: According to T D Manning & C F Walker British Warship Names (London: Putman,1959), the destroyer was also named for the Shakespeare character.

[jainso31]

I would have thought that the Trawler Rosalind, would have been named after someone's wife eg. Co.Director or the skipper.a lot of fishing vessels are.


jainso31

[tjstoneman]

I agree that some of the requisitioned trawlers were indeed named by owners or skippers; however ROSALIND was built for the RN as one of the "Shakespearian" class, all named after his characters, eg HM Ships HAMLET, JULIET, OTHELLO etc.
Tim

[MelQuick]

Hi Everyone

I have a question regarding RN trawlers:

Sometimes their names are prefixed with 'HMS' and sometimes with 'HMT' .

Which is correct? Was HMT the official prefix and, if so, were they entitled to use HMS?

Can anyone advise me?

Mel

[Pat in Halifax]

It had been a while since I visited this thread and let me say that I was provided with about 30 minutes of entertainment reading through; some entries bringing tears to my eyes!! I was trying to figure if some of Canada's current Fleet has nicknames - In the past, there was "Rusty-guts" of course (Restigouche) and HMCS Gatineau in the early 90s rec'd the monicker "Gotta-go" (for obvious reasons) but today's fleet seems immune from this. The pennant numbers on the other hand, I have heard nicknames for - "Dirty 330" (Halifax) and one of my faves; HMCS Toronto, pennant #333 - "Halfway to Hell!!!"
I noticed none of my 'fellow' peers on this thread so maybe someone will pipe up.

[Nigel999]

I think the Yanks have the real king of warship names, USS PONCE .

Something to do with a noble of Spanish origins (I think) . Not difficult to think of the potential situation that could arise from the question "Ayup Yank, what ship you from?........

Mind you, we did have a tender to CRESCENT in 1918 called TIT .

Some while ago I read a borrowed book, the title of which eludes me.(Sadly because I would like a copy) It contained a number of short stories, basically of peoples personal wartime experiences.

One of those was the story of Sam Patience , who survived the JERVIS BAY loss. He related about when they were taking in wartime munitions at outbreak of war. Helping them, were members of the Cambridge University Naval Training Squadron.

Some of the regular sailors had problems working , owing to laughing. Their helpers. cap tallies, nicely new and abbreviated.

[barracuda]

The other day I noticed on the random ship photos display at the top of the page, a ship named HMS Marshall Ney. Knowing that he was a French Napoleonic hero I was intrigued, followed the link, did a bit of Googling and found a sister ship HMS Marshall Soult too. Now I know the French were our allies when these ships were named in WW1, but it seems odd to name our ships after the heroes of a country that once was our arch enemy. I hope there wasn't an HMS Napoleon. :(

Does anyone know why these names were used? And are there other Royal Navy ships named after people who were not British? Incidentally, The Marshal Ney wasn't scrapped until 1957. Does anyone remember her?

Peter

[barracuda]

Does anyone know why these names were used? And are there other Royal Navy ships named after people who were not British? Incidentally, The Marshal Ney wasn't scrapped until 1957. Does anyone remember her?

I take it that's a "no" then.

Peter

[tjstoneman]

With tongue very firmly in cheek, how about CLEOPATRA as a non-British person?

More seriously, Prince Eugene was not British.

Tim

[Ednamay]

My cousin, Peggy Harwood, was in the WRNS and was based for a while in the Southsea Barracks, which I believe was known as the Duchess of Kent, but I believe it had a shorter official name - anyone know the answer?

Edna

[Sean Roberts]

Hi Edna.I think you will find that it was unkindely called "The Cow Barracks"

[Ednamay]

Hi Edna.I think you will find that it was unkindely called "The Cow Barracks"

Sean - Not quite what I expected! There was an official title, because it was too cumbersome to put "Duchess of Kent Barracks" in all communications!

Edna

[cameraman]

How about HMS Beverley? Was there ever such a ship?

Found this link for HMS BEVERLEY, looks like she was an ex American warship
http://www.hu17.net/hms-beverley/

[Wardoc]

Hi, all,

Very interesting aal the items about "ship names". In fact I have made it my special project to put together everything that has to do about ship names. I already have in archive a huge amount of information. I think I must get them up again. But I have written a book about the ship names in the Royal Netherlands Navy. Called "The names of ships in the Royal Netherlands Navy in service since 1945". The book contains all names and there inheretance. Also the Dutch commission on namegiving and the regulations with Naval procedures are mentioned. So, if someone has questions about Dutch navy names, don't hesitate to ask them.
I did stop collecting information on names of navy ships of the world because if you give a name in Google you get a lot of hits. But the information is still at hand.

Greetings William van Amstel (ret. CPO RNethNavy):)

[oldsalt]

During the Napolean, Nelson era, French ships captured by the RN kept their French names. A good example was the Temeraire..

[johnny07]

While in Chatham Dockyard in 1955 serving aboard the frigate WHITESAND BAY, I came across the ship named TRUELOVE, I bet any matelot with the hat tally with that name got some stick ashore, why give a fighting ship a name such as that?

Dave

Why did Johnny Cash's father call him Sue?.:confused::confused:

[Scurs]

It was "Sioux", not "Sue" :D

[johnny07]

Why did Johnny Cash's father call him Sue?.:confused::confused:

I have been studying the life and times of Hms truelove (J 303) and fortunately for those on board for most of the time their cap tallies would say HMS as they spent most of the time at war.

[Brian Murza]

1998-2011-It is hard to comprehend the H.M.C.S., when the Canadian Forces is in the situation; they are in!!!! During W.W.II when Canada had a real NAVY, some of the CAP TALLIES had some of the SHIPS names, though as the ROYAL NAVY; most of the CAP TALLIES had H.M.C.S.=HIS MAJESTY`S CANADIAN SHIP!!! H.M.S.=HIS MAJESTY`S SHIP!!!!!

[oldsalt]

A contender for the longest ships name, Castle Corvette, Knaresborough Castle. Including HMS, it is 22 letters, add another 3 for spaces, that makes 25.

[diverdags]

There was a Soviet Navy cruiser called October Revolution, Sverdlov class I think. Its full official name was TCHETYRNADTSATAIA GODOVSTCHINA OKTIABRSKOI REVOLIOUTSII.

Jeez thats even longer than that famous Welsh railway station with the long sign - the one on all the postcards, LLanfair summutorother

BIRMINGHAM...Brum
SHEFFIELD...the shiny Shef - apparently the town of Sheffield provided stainless steel door clips for the ship.

[diverdags]

Andy,

this is the totally glib answer to your question that you might probably expect from an old Chief Stoker.

HMS BEAVER. :D

But I believe the probable answer is that IMPREGNABLE became the training ship HMS KENT in 1862 and thereafter the training ship HMS CALEDONIA from November 1888.

This could have led to the naming of the WRNS Barracks at Southsea as Duchess of Kent Barracks, after the training ship KENT.

Sandy.



LOL Sandy, Impregnable to Beaver - that is absolutely brilliant! I almost wet myself.

[Pat in Halifax]

1998-2011-It is hard to comprehend the H.M.C.S., when the Canadian Forces is in the situation; they are in!!!! During W.W.II when Canada had a real NAVY, some of the CAP TALLIES had some of the SHIPS names, though as the ROYAL NAVY; most of the CAP TALLIES had H.M.C.S.=HIS MAJESTY`S CANADIAN SHIP!!! H.M.S.=HIS MAJESTY`S SHIP!!!!!


Brian:
I am unsure of your point.

By the way-current serving 30-years-in CPO1 Stoker talking here. Canada has have a VERY capable Navy with a VERY proud uniformed cadre (with a very rich and proud history I will add) who proudly wear their Ship's names on Navy-standardized ball caps.
IE:
HMCS TORONTO
FFH 333