HMS Roberts 1941-1965

[pommy]

Greetings all!

I was born in Middlesbrough where my family had lived for some years. My grandfather was a pilot boat officer on the Tees before the war and, I think, a member of the RNVR.

I am trying to research details of my grandfather's war service as all other members of my family who held any information are deceased.

My grandfather was Robert or Bob Waters and he served as a Lieutenant (?) or gunnery officer (?) on HMS Roberts in the D -day landings. His other war service included time in the Med. where he may have been sunk and time in a corvette on Atlantic convoys. He left the Navy at the end of WW2 and died in the early 1960s.

I now live in Australia and do not have easy access to hard copy records.

Any information about my grandfather or how to research his war records would be much appreciated.

Many thanks, Robert Waters.

[John Brown]

Pommy

Can't help much but you may find this interesting (if you don't already know it). ......

Outside the Imperial War Museum in London there are two 15 inch gun barrels. The right hand one of these was actually mounted on HMS Roberts during the D-Day Landings when she bombarded the Houlgate Battery. If your Grandfather was gunnery officer at the time, this piece of ordnance would actually have been one of the tools of his trade.

Regards...John

[kc]

....of which there are several photos available on the web one of which is this one.....

http://www.jonathanstephens.com/england-large/Imperial-War-Museum---Londo.jpg

from www.jonathanstephens.com (http://www.jonathanstephens.com)

a quick google image search for imperial war museum should turn up a few more.

[Batstiger]

Here are some pictures of Monitors from the last war.

HMS Abercrombie.
HMS Erebus.
HMS Marshal Soult.
HMS Roberts x 2.
HMS Terror x 2.
HMS Terror taken at Portsmouth 1930 with the destroyers from the left:-
HMS Shikari.
HMS Restless.
HMS Truant.

Bob.

[jbryce1437]

I remember HMS Roberts, she was tied up at Devonport in 1963/4 and was used as an accommodation ship. The forward turret made other guns look like pea shooters.
Your grandfather would have been in action in the attached photograph, which shows Roberts firing her guns at Normandy, with HMS Frobisher providing cover for her behind. Note the shock wave from the gun on the water.

[kc]

....and just to add to this thread by way of pictures, we happen to have an art print of this event. Ok, so HMS Frobisher dominates, but I thought HMS Roberts made up enough of this painting to interest those reading this thread.

http://www.directart.co.uk/mall/images/dhm1323.jpg (http://www.directart.co.uk/mall/more.php?ProdID=2382)

HMS Frobisher and HMS Roberts at Normandy by Ivan Berryman.

The cruiser HMS Frobisher dominates this scene off Houlgate at the Normandy landings of 1944. The monitor HMS Roberts lies beyond Frobisher with a Large Infantry Landing Ship or LSI (L) unshipping its LCAs on the extreme right of the picture. In the foreground, a motor launch attends a group of LCP (L)s as they head for the French beaches. Two Spitfire Mk.IXs conduct sweeps overhead as Operation Neptune gathers momentum.

[pommy]

Many thanks guys!

The information you've given me is, I hope, the first few steps on the trail. I'm particularly grateful for the photograph of the Roberts firing at the battery on D Day!

Thanks again, Rob.

[stewart mcloughlin]

If you go to:-

http://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Chrono-03Mon-Roberts.htm

you will find the service history of the ship.

Also at:-

http://www.photoship.co.uk/JAlbum/Old%20Ship%20Picture%20Gallery%20Q-Z/Old%20Ships%20R/index4.html

are pictures of the old Roberts.

Stewart McLoughlin

[pommy]

Many thanks for the links to the Roberts' history and to the photographs.

Rob.

[greenrw]

Hi Rob,
I too remember "HMS Roberts" in Devonport circa 1963/1964.
A very unsteady photo of her taken at the time is attached.
It was a shot attempted from another boat, no digital cameras in those days!!!!!
How far have you progressed with your research???
Have a look @ http://www.mariners-1.co.uk. This site in its self, will not provide ancestry profiles, but does have one of the best navigation guides for the "Public records office (National archives) @ Kew in the UK.
Believe me, Iv`e been there its not the most user friendly of sites!
I obtained my Grandfathers WW1 RN record from their online files, download cost £3:50.
A very curious aspect of his record, is that the hand writing is the same throughout its entirety from 1901 to 1921. Can you imagine the same "scribe" at a desk for that period of time?
You will need to Register, prior to being given access to the Library.
Once you have located the appropriate "ADM file", a "Service number", "Name" and "duration of service", are what you will require for a quick search. Otherwise, on surname alone, be prepared for a long search.
Good luck
Regards
Bob William Green

[herakles]

Pommy

Can't help much but you may find this interesting (if you don't already know it). ......

Outside the Imperial War Museum in London there are two 15 inch gun barrels. The right hand one of these was actually mounted on HMS Roberts during the D-Day Landings when she bombarded the Houlgate Battery. If your Grandfather was gunnery officer at the time, this piece of ordnance would actually have been one of the tools of his trade.

Regards...John

I always thought these two gun barrels were from HMS Queen Elizabeth.

Am I wrong?

[John Brown]

I would say you are mistaken Herakles.


Have a look at this page:

http://collections.iwm.org.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.990

Although, really you are too old a hand for me to have to do this type of simple research for you :D

Also just to show we guys over here really don't forget about you guys out there:D

http://london.iwm.org.uk/server/show/conEvent.2103

Regards...John

[TACKLINE]

Greetings all!

I was born in Middlesbrough where my family had lived for some years. My grandfather was a pilot boat officer on the Tees before the war and, I think, a member of the RNVR.

I am trying to research details of my grandfather's war service as all other members of my family who held any information are deceased.

My grandfather was Robert or Bob Waters and he served as a Lieutenant (?) or gunnery officer (?) on HMS Roberts in the D -day landings. His other war service included time in the Med. where he may have been sunk and time in a corvette on Atlantic convoys. He left the Navy at the end of WW2 and died in the early 1960s.

I now live in Australia and do not have easy access to hard copy records.

Any information about my grandfather or how to research his war records would be much appreciated.

Many thanks, Robert Waters.


Hi Robert,
I served on the'Roberts' '44/'45 and remember your Grandfather Sub Lt Waters,at least I knew of him. I see you have the photo of her at Normandy,but I have a photograph of the ships Co taken at Portsmouth in January '45 and I'm pretty certain that he is on it. I also have the 'book'of when 'Roberts' crossed the line in Sept '45,and his name is included in the list of officers,so he was still onboard at that time. If you send me your email address by PM,then I can send you the photo. Regards, Alan Tonkin.

[Batstiger]

Hello Alan, that is a very kind offer you have made and I am sure you have made Robert very happy.
Do you think you could share his good luck with us and let us have some scans of your photographs.I think I speak for everyone when I say we would be very grateful!

Bob.

[TACKLINE]

Hi Bob,
A few photos appertaining .to 'Roberts' . For some reason I can't make out,the photo of the ships Co (after a few attempts) will not attache. Sorry about that.
Tackline.

[TACKLINE]

Hi Bob,
Another attempt to attache the ships Co photo. No joy I'm afraid. The breakers yard is the end of 'Roberts' career.
Tackline.

[Batstiger]

Okay Alan, I'm trying to clean them up for you.
Here's the first one.

Bob.

[Batstiger]

Here is picture two (a bit better)

[Batstiger]

There we go Alan that's the best I can do.

Bob.

[TACKLINE]

Thanks Bob.the wonders of digital photography eh!
Tackline.

[Harley]

That picture from "Big Gun Monitors" came out rather well. It's twice the size of the image in the book and better definition that my eyes can make out!

To interested parties, Ian Buxton's seminal work on these ships has been updated and will be printed in a new run soon. And if you pre-order it it's only 28 pounds;

http://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/?product_id=1588

If you want Alan, I could put you in touch with Dr. Buxton if you haven't been in touch with him before.

Regards,
Harley

[TACKLINE]

Thank you Harley,I think I'll take a rain check on the book offer. Regards, Alan.

[Maritime Michael Ian]

Hello Pommy,a warm welcome to the forum.

For the information of all, the following is an extract from the Imperial War Museum website concerning the 15 inch guns at the front of the building:

Quote :The left-hand gun (Gunbody No. 125) of the pair situated outside Imperial War Museum London was made by William Beardmore and mounted in HMS Ramillies in 1916. It was first fired in action against Turkish shore targets during operations in the Sea of Marmara in 1920. Apart from practice shoots, it was not fired again until 17 August 1940, when when a British force bombarded Bardia in North Africa. HMS Ramillies also fired several salvoes during the Battle of Spartivento in 27 November 1940. The Italian warships were out of range and no hits were scored. The gun was removed from HMS Ramillies in 1941 and stored. The tampion badge is taken from the arms of the Duke of Marlborough, and translates as 'Faithful but Unfortunate'.

The right-hand gun (Gunbody No. 102) was mounted in HMS Resolution from 1915 to 1938. It saw service in the Sea of Marmara in 1920, but was not fired in anger again until 1944, and then in another ship, the monitor Roberts. This ship was an important unit in the naval forces assembled for the invasion of Normandy. On D-Day itself, HMS Roberts bombarded Houlgate Battery, east of Sword Beach. During the succeeding weeks her guns shelled enemy positions several miles inland near Caen. On 1 November 1944 she supported the assault on Walcheren and attacked a German battery north of Westkapelle.

This gun was made by Vickers, Son & Maxim. It was stored from 1938 to 1944 and again from 1945 onwards. The breech mechanism on this gun was originally used for instructional purposes at Woolwich Arsenal. It was fitted to the barrel by Museum craftsmen with help from the Arsenal. The tampion badge - a charging knight - symbolises 'Resolution'. Unquote

Ian

[astraltrader]

With reference to post #16 above - Alan [Tackline] was trying to upload a photo of the Roberts ships company without much luck. I suggested that he might like to email it to me and then I would in turn put it here for him.

This he kindly did along with the comment "Roberts Ships Company - Photo - at last!"

An excellent photo, Alan.

I have posted two different sized versions of it to satisfy those who would rather see it as large as possible along with those who would rather see it in a more screen friendly mode!

[TACKLINE]

Many thanks Terry,a job well done.
Alan.

[Stan.J]

Tidied it up a little. Hope you dont mind...Wonder who the rating is who has turned away..Maybe the Law was after Him.?

[TACKLINE]

Thanks Stan,you've done a good job on it. Exposes my lack of expertise when it comes to digital photography. I think the rating in question was eager to get away for his tot!:)
Regards,Alan.

[pommy]

Many thanks for the information and photos so far.

Best regards, Robert.

[pommy]

If my Grandfather was a Sub-Lieutenant who was in the RNVR (Wavy Navy?) but serving with regulars, what badge of rank would he wear on his cuff?

I see a face in the photograph that may be my Grandfather......perhaps the rank badge may be the proof.

Here's hoping!

Regards, Robert.

PS.I think I have seen a photograph of my Grandfather standing on deck, in front of the gun turret, wearing a white cap, short sleeve shirt and shorts. Is this possible? If so is it rig for the Med.? My brother has this photo.

[Commodore Armiger]

Pre 1951 one wavy stripe with a "curl". To quote Wikipedia:

Officers of the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve (formed 1903) had single wavy stripes ¼ inch wide, with the curl a squarish shape. The Lt Cdr's narrow stripe was originally straight, but after 1942 was waved also. Midshipmen had a maroon collar patch.

In 1951 both RNVR and RNR lost their distinctive insignia and got normal straight stripes like the regulars, but with a letter 'R' inside the curl. The 2 organisations were merged in 1958.

In 2007 Officers of the RNR removed the 'R' distinction from badges of rank.

[Commodore Armiger]

And here's a good link:

http://www.naval-history.net/WW2aaRN-PayTables00Ranks-Badges.htm

[mick fairbrother]

whilst on reserve fleet , devonport, in the early 60s i spent a few months , watch keeping on this ship. to this day i dont known much about the ship, except its unusual shape, and of cause the large guns. i never did walk around the ship during the night, as i was told to do . what with being the only one awake, at a time, only two of us aboard at any one time. would like to no more about this ship. heres hoping.

[Batstiger]

To start with Mick have a look here on this forum!

http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=485&highlight=roberts

Cheers, Bob.

[TACKLINE]

whilst on reserve fleet , devonport, in the early 60s i spent a few months , watch keeping on this ship. to this day i dont known much about the ship, except its unusual shape, and of cause the large guns. i never did walk around the ship during the night, as i was told to do . what with being the only one awake, at a time, only two of us aboard at any one time. would like to no more about this ship. heres hoping.

Hi Mick, I have a photo of Roberts taken at Devonport,May 1962. Could be when you were doing watchkeeping duties onboard? Must have been an eerie experience at night with only two of you onboard. There were 500 plus complement when she was in her pomp. A happy ship.
Click image twice for bigger picture.

[mick fairbrother]

THANKS for the info about the roberts,i now know a lot more about the ship.

[mick fairbrother]

i was on resreve fleet plymouth, twice, 1961 for 8 months. then dec 1962 till march 1964,so it had to be during that time i spent on the roberts.

[John Ward]

My father served on the Roberts during WWII. I am attempting to locate a crew register for the ship. My fathers name is John Ward (Nickname "Sharky") He had a close friend on ship called Jagger Spicer and also recalls an Andrew Emerson (my father suffers from dementure so he has trouble with his memory) If anyone can help me with a crew register or knows of the whereabouts of the above named, that would be very helpful. Regards to all. John Ward

[John Ward]

Robert, I see you live in Ballina. I live in Lennox Head. My father was on the Roberts and he is currently in st andrews Village in ballina. I am attempting to locate a crew register and any photos of the crew that might be around. can you help? regards, john ward

[jbryce1437]

I always thought these two gun barrels were from HMS Queen Elizabeth.

Am I wrong?

Roberts had several guns during her service. Her final two went to the scrapyard with her. A list of 15in guns and their disposition is on the attached sheet.

[Batstiger]

Very informative Jim, thanks for that.

Bob.

[oldsalt]

Roberts was sold to T. W. Ward for scrapping in July 1965.:confused::confused:

[TACKLINE]

My father served on the Roberts during WWII. I am attempting to locate a crew register for the ship. My fathers name is John Ward (Nickname "Sharky") He had a close friend on ship called Jagger Spicer and also recalls an Andrew Emerson (my father suffers from dementure so he has trouble with his memory) If anyone can help me with a crew register or knows of the whereabouts of the above named, that would be very helpful. Regards to all. John Ward

John,
I have sent you a private message. Tackline

[Macadian]

I remember HMS Roberts, she was tied up at Devonport in 1963/4 and was used as an accommodation ship. The forward turret made other guns look like pea shooters.
Your grandfather would have been in action in the attached photograph, which shows Roberts firing her guns at Normandy, with HMS Frobisher providing cover for her behind. Note the shock wave from the gun on the water.

Seems a few of us remember seeing The 'Roberts' at Devonport. I saw her for the first time in 1964 whilst being taken for a trip round the harbour and reserve fleet whilst training at Raleigh as a Junior stoker. I found it pretty awesome to say the least and also remember being taken aboard the 'Mattapan' which was in mothballs, for a look see. I think the most memorable sight that day was a Daring Class Destroyer coming up the River at speed and sounding its siren (you know, the 'proper sirens)...made the hairs on my neck stand I can tell you and I remember it clearly to this day. Things change but ships such as the 'Darings', Weapons class' etc of that era will always be 'proper destroyers' to me.....

[CYLLA]

MACADIAN,
YEP i was taken on board :MATTAPAN: it must have been part of our training ,we were taken down in one of the mess decks ,to have a shuffty.


cylla

[oldsalt]

Matapan was a Battle class destroyer, I don't think she was ever commissioned, she came straight from acceptance trials to the reserve fleet at Guzz. I went aboard her for a look around, shewas immaculate inside.

[tim lewin]

HMS Matapan actually had a very long and fascinating life as a trials ship testing just about everything imaginable; never completred as a class-ship she was radically altered and well worked for ages, she actually remained on the active list right up to 1970s, if i am right, the last survivor of the class, 1943-1970??. She was not armed and her superstructure was very different but underneath she was still a Battle. I have a picture somewhere but I am sure someone else will post one before I can find it!
tim

[John Brown]

A few more of Matapan, broken up in 1979...


Regards...John

[oldsalt]

Confusion , I looked at your pics of Matapan & thought someones got their wires crossed. After a little research I found Matapan had been converted to a trials ship, since she was'nt commissioned until after I had left the RN , I was'nt aware of the conversion. After conversion the Matapan did'nt look anything like her original Battle class. The pics are a before & after, you can see why I was confused:confused::confused::confused::confused:

[John Brown]

Understandable confusion bigship.

It often pays to read the previous posts. In this case Dave had posted before and after photos in post number 41 :o


However, your photos are most welcome

regards...John

[geoff02]

Hi all ,
My father (Tommy Skidmore) served on HMS Roberts throughout WW2 and i have discovered some photo,s of a boxing match taken on the Roberts he seems to think that they were taken in the Med.

Dad is the one in the black shorts in the boxing ring , i will try to find out who his opponent was.

The other photo,s are of dad and a shipmate i am afraid he can not remember his name (dad is on the left)

i hope these photo.s may be of some use.

regards.
Geoff

[PeterW]

G´day all,

i´m starting to build a card model of the monitor HMS Roberts (published by polish publisher JSC (http://store.jsc.pl/?d=produkt&id=162)) and looking for reference material for enhancing several details.

For some reason this ship is very well documented in the web.
I´ve searched the well known warship reference sites in the WWW and found a bunch of really fine images depicting the ship.
The pics within the forums HMS Roberts thread were helpful, too.
Also the no.1 reference book "Big Gun Monitors" by Ian Buxton i checked out.

Anyhow, those images mostly showing the ship sideways at all possible angles, overlooks and, of course reasonably, its weaponry.

But i couldn´t find any images showing the open bridge. This would be the most interesting part for me, as on the model it is just an empty deck. Thus there is a good chance to add some detail.

Does anyone have some images or drawings showing the bridge and/or its equipment?

Thnx
Peter

[PeterW]

Gd evng all,

i´ve forgot to mention that the WW2 Roberts is meant.

Greets
Peter

[Harley]

From one of the pictures of "Roberts" in Buxton's book (1st Edition) there is what appears to be a 15' navigating rangefinder on the compass platform which could be added. I would expect the usual paraphenalia of open bridges to be present - voice pipes, binnacle, bearing indicators and the like, they're portrayed enough in films like "Battle of the River Plate" for example.

I know someone who looked over "Roberts" when she was laid up for scrapping in the '60s and certainly took some photographs of the ship. Who knows, he may have some of the bridge - I will politely ask.

Simon

[jbryce1437]

These are elevated views of her and may be of some help. I presume her open bridge would have been very similar to other ships and would comprise mainly navigation equipment, as previously stated. Gunnery control, etc., would have been commanded from the fighting top.

[PeterW]

Moin & good evening,

thnks for the reply and the images.
i guess, the pictures being similiar to those in Ian Buxton´s book?
anyhow, within the models scale of 1:400 there is still much detailing possible, for which the images are helpful but for common bridge equipment i will refer to the movie you´ve mentioned above. the german title is "Admiral Graf Spee" (surprisingly :D )

hence, i´ve 2 more questions, which might be answered here as well:
1.) the V shaped beam protruding from the bow, is that some kind of self-protection equipment against mines, to be lowered onto/into the water ?

2.) i don´t remember exactly, where & when, but somewhere i´ve read that the Roberts been nicknamed "Little Nelson" due to her principle Nelson-class shape if seen at a distance.

thnks
Peter

[Rorqual]

The V shaped angled piece on the bow was used for streaming
Paravanes . In the lowered position it would have a wires attached to
the paravanes on either side to cut moored mine securing cables .
When the ship was steaming the paravanes would spread and move away from the ship and position themselves at a pre set depth .
When the ship stopped the paravanes came to the surface for recovery .


Fred

[PeterW]

Thnks Fred,

thats what i guessed. Now i know it :)

rgds
Peter

[TACKLINE]

I served on Roberts from April '44 to Sept '45, but can't remember a time when the paravanes were deployed. 'Little Nelson' is a new one on me. Gunnery was controlled from the spotting top.

[BECA@CLEAR.NET.NZ]

Here are some pictures of Monitors from the last war.

HMS Abercrombie.
HMS Erebus.
HMS Marshal Soult.
HMS Roberts x 2.
HMS Terror x 2.
HMS Terror taken at Portsmouth 1930 with the destroyers from the left:-
HMS Shikari.
HMS Restless.
HMS Truant.

Bob.

Bob.
My sincere apologies, I have just posted a picture of the Roberts before I accidentaly found yours that you had posted.
Would'nt it have been interesting if we had preserved this interesting ship rather than just her two 15" guns at the Imperial War Museum?
Please just delete my entry.
Regards,
Colin

[qprdave]

How good were these Monitors? They had a couple of big guns, which was very handy. But were they any good for other things besides close coastal firings?

[oldsalt]

Roberts provided valuable support on D Day.

[TACKLINE]

And also at North Africa,Sicily,Salerno and Walcheren,and was on her way out East to confront the Japs,when they surrendered. Landings were us!

[qprdave]

Whilst I agree, the Monitors were very valuable as a Coastal Battery. My question was were they any good at anything else? What did they do In between these landings. What did they do during the interwar years?

Except for the shallow draught which enabled them to close the shore. What could they do that a Battleship/Battlecruiser couldn't?

[oldsalt]

It was considered that the Monitors were a cheaper way of providing heavy gunnery support than a Battleship or Battle Cruiser. They were built quickly & required a much reduced compliment compared to the other big gun ships. They also were built to sail at a far slower rate, 8 knts or so meaning cheaper propulsion systems. During WW1 they were mostly & consistantly moored of the Belgium coast firing on German heavy gun batteries .

[CYLLA]

Matapan was a Battle class destroyer, I don't think she was ever commissioned, she came straight from acceptance trials to the reserve fleet at Guzz. I went aboard her for a look around, shewas immaculate inside.


Old salt , you being a D.O at Raleigh at the time I did my training , it was then we went on board HMS Matapan,....was it a part of our training ??,..we were rowing around the ships laid up off "Jupiter Point ".

cylla

[oldsalt]

I was Jellicoe DO from Feb.67 until Dec. 68, I know my memory is shot but I can't remember Part 2 training including a visit to Matapan, of course I could be wrong.

[CYLLA]

oh, we must have slipped aboard for a loaf, :D....after learning to row a whaler.

cylla

[Jimmy Conway]

Hello everyone.
I have great interest in naval design, this English Monitor has been a subject of study, and have as a reference the Profiles Morskie for HMS Roberts and HMS Abercrombie, nice plans and nice book.
Nice regards from Brazil!:)
Jimmy

[BECA@CLEAR.NET.NZ]

A nice shot of HMS Roberts taken by Mr Rex Copper in her latter days.

[Poppysdad1]

Hi

I wonder if anyone can help me. My grandfather served on HMS Roberts. He was Lieutenant Commander Jack F Compton. I know he was on board during September 1945 as I have his Crossing the Line certificate. Does anyone remember him or have any information about him and his time on HMS Roberts and possible previous assignments.I have been unable to find any mention of him on any site or listings on the internet. I never really talked to him about his time on board and unfortunately it is too late as he died quite a while ago now.
Any help would be massively appreciated.

Thank you
Kind regards
Simon Inchley

[astraltrader]

Simon - I dont know whether you are interested or not but we have a thread from a few months ago about "crossing the line" that you might find worthwhile looking at.

Also if you wish you could add a copy of your fathers certificate to this thread...


http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=949&highlight=crossing+line

[Poppysdad1]

Hi

I have posted on the crossing the line thread and thought I'd add the certificate here also as it is specific the The Roberts.

Kind regards
Simon.

[Batstiger]

I've just glanced through this thread and we don't appear to have this picture of the Roberts.

Bob.

[astraltrader]

A nice shot Bob - thank you. :)

[emason]

I found this one of the Roberts a couple of days ago.

86708

[astraltrader]

A nice shot Bill - which I had before but at a far smaller size.

Thanks for posting it. :)

[chris westwood]

I might be wrong, but I thought those V shaped brackets often seen on WW2 ships was the mechanism of an acoustic hammer, which detonated acoustic mines in shallow water.

[Lancastrian]

A nice shot of HMS Roberts taken by Mr Rex Copper in her latter days.

Or even Capt Rex Cooper. I hope you have his permission.

[TCC]

The V shaped angled piece on the bow was used for streaming
Paravanes . In the lowered position it would have a wires attached to
the paravanes on either side to cut moored mine securing cables .
When the ship was steaming the paravanes would spread and move away from the ship and position themselves at a pre set depth .
When the ship stopped the paravanes came to the surface for recovery .


Fred

I may be making a foolmof myself but I thought that thing was for accostic mines in that they dangled a construction 'air-hammer' (contained in it's own enclosure) off a wire. This hammer was set to work against a flat bit of steel and it acted like a drum. This noise approaching a accoustic mine set it off, hopefully, in advance of the ship.

I'm out of my depth on this one as well but could a monitor steam fast enough to stream a paravane? You need forward motion to keep them out/up, no?

Is there a speed limit for paravanes?

Thirdly, for ships lacking a paravane fitting on the foot of the stem, the navy had a 'skeg'(?). It was a 'v' shaped fitting lowered down that had the paravane fittings on either arm. [name this fitting? is one of the questions asked by Ericson when in the carley Floats in the film 'The Cruel Sea'.]

[patroclus]

I may be making a foolmof myself but I thought that thing was for accostic mines in that they dangled a construction 'air-hammer' (contained in it's own enclosure) off a wire. This hammer was set to work against a flat bit of steel and it acted like a drum. This noise approaching a accoustic mine set it off, hopefully, in advance of the ship.

I'm out of my depth on this one as well but could a monitor steam fast enough to stream a paravane? You need forward motion to keep them out/up, no?

Is there a speed limit for paravanes?

Thirdly, for ships lacking a paravane fitting on the foot of the stem, the navy had a 'skeg'(?). It was a 'v' shaped fitting lowered down that had the paravane fittings on either arm. [name this fitting? is one of the questions asked by Ericson when in the carley Floats in the film 'The Cruel Sea'.]



The A-frame attached to the bows was for towing minesweeping paravanes. See this site for a better view of this fitting:

http://www.mccord-museum.qc.ca/en/collection/artifacts/27-2761

Ian Buxton states, in respect of the monitors, that "a modified type of paravane" was towed from this hinged A-frame lowered over the bows.

[tjstoneman]

Several postings have discussed the V-shaped (or A-shaped) frame attached to the bows of ROBERTS (and ABERCROMBIE). I believe, as has been stated, that it's to take the paravane shoe; the ship could apparently steam at 12 knots, which would be sufficient to keep a paravane streamed. A number of minesweepers were fitted with the Sweep, Acoustic Type A Mark II, which comprised a conical steel box containing an electrically-driven hammer mounted on a frame similar to that in the photos, but I don't think this was fitted to other types of ship - at least I've not noticed it on anything other than minesweepers.
There are photos showing ships fitted with this acoustic sweeping device at http://www.navyphotos.co.uk/mms5611b.jpg, http://www.navyphotos.co.uk/mmsj6041b.jpg and http://www.navyphotos.co.uk/pngbn1b.jpg.
Tim

[TCC]

Thank you for the replies. I see I wasn't the only one to see the similarity between the fitting for streaming paravanes to that for taking the acoustic hammer/sweep.

I found a clearer image of the acoustic sweep boom. The round 'drum' shaped fitting on the top is the actual device.

The visual difference bwteen bow-mounted 'A' frame is that the mine variety have the hammer-box attached while the paravane are without it.

Something else I remembered; there are at least 2 types of paravane in the RN: Those for fast ships and those for 'slow'... my (now terrible) memory also connects the speed of 16knts with this subject.