DISASTER OF THE MAILLE BREZE. [Archive] - World Naval Ships Forums

astraltrader

11-06-2008, 22:36

This is another photo I have had for years without knowing what ship it was, or what the story was behind it.
Again armed with the resources of the internet, I have been able to find out a little bit about it. Considering the number of casualties occurred there is still very little information to be had about it.

From what I can put together at 14:15 on the 30th April 1940, whilst on exercises at Tail of Bank, Greenock on the Clyde - a large Free French destroyer Maille Breze was sunk whlst taking on ammunition.

Apparently the ship`s torpedo tubes were trained fore and aft and one of the torpedoes was accidently discharged causing it to shoot along the deck finally exploding on the bridge and subsequently setting off a large quantity of ammunition and fuel.

The ship sank very quickly and in all 33 French sailors were killed and 50 others injured.

Fortunately the survivors were quickly rescued by prompt action by personnel from the carrier FURIOUS, destroyer FIREDRAKE and the boom defence vessel BARFIELD.

A memorial to the French dead was later erected at Gourock.

From what I can gather this photo I have is very rare and appears to have been taken just after the time of the explosion.

Copies for your own use only please.

John Brown

12-06-2008, 07:18

Good photo Terry.

As they say, 'you heard it here first' in my 'on this day' post for 30th April;)

Regards...John

christophe

12-06-2008, 09:49

two more pictures of the Maille Breze and a repport about the accident (for those who speak french). It says the ship has been destroyed by the accidental launch of one of her own torpedo while the tubes were in the axis of the ship (April, 30th, 1940, 2:30pm). The torpedo exploded below the foredeck (?) and a violent fire started immediately. Fire was under control at 7:15pm but the ship sunk one hour later. There had been 6 killed, 21 lost and 47 wounded. The repport also point out the immediate and efficient help of the men and officers of the RN.

astraltrader

12-06-2008, 17:20

Thanks JB. It is always gratifying to be able to put a name to a photo one has had for years...

13-06-2008, 22:49

As I look out my window, I can see the exact spot where this ship went down. I assume she was eventually raised and scrapped? Or is she still there, somewhere near the infamous 'sugar boat'? Being local to the area, it would be interesting to know one way or the other. Fascinating photo Terry, and many thanks to our new French expert Christophe - I could just about understand that report.

astraltrader

13-06-2008, 23:03

Thanks Kc. I dont know for sure but I have a feeling she is still down there...

13-06-2008, 23:10

wow, really Terry? It can't be far from the capsized wreck which has been there since the seventies. I have never heard any suggestion of any other wrecks at the tail o' the bank, but I wonder if the former has any connection to the latter, however unlikely.

tjstoneman

14-06-2008, 08:29

The wreck of MAILLÉ BRÉZÉ was raised in 1954 and moved to the Ardmore Bank where the bodies of 21 French sailors (who had been impossible to recover in 1940) were taken ashore with full naval honours before being returned to France for burial, and the remaining munitions were removed from the wreck. She was then taken to Smith and Houston's shipbreaking yard at Port Glasgow for scrapping. Information from Brian D Osborne and Ronald Armstrong The Clyde at War (Edinburgh: Birlinn 2001), which also has some photos of the wreck after salvage. The number of fatalities varies - Terry's post says 33, Christophe says 27, Clyde at War says 28.
Incidentally, MAILLÉ BRÉZÉ is a splendid name for a WARship - it can be translated as "Armoured Fist"

astraltrader

14-06-2008, 17:44

There you go Kc - it looks like the ship was raised in 1954 after all.
Thanks for the info Tj - Kc was all set to get his diving gear out of the attic!!

christophe

15-06-2008, 00:47

I can't say about the meaning of Maille Breze but the ships are named after Jean Armand de Maille Breze, a famous french "Grand Maitre de la Navigation" (somehow Admiral) who died in 1646 at the age of 27.
To be honnest, he is almost forgotten in France now ( :( )

15-06-2008, 12:18

The wreck of MAILLÉ BRÉZÉ was raised in 1954.....

Thanks for that, nice to get confirmation. I had a word with some older locals, but none had heard about this ship or knew of a wreck being raised. They did mention that there are (obviously different) wrecks marked on navigation charts though.

ger

17-06-2008, 11:55

The memorial in Greenock is not to the men of the Maille Breze but is to the Free French Forces who were based in Scotland during WWII (Notice the Cross of Lorraine).
At the time of this disaster, the Free French Forces did not exist as France had not yet fallen.
Regards
Gerry McGinty

astraltrader

17-06-2008, 19:25

Welcome Gerry. With regard to the memorial all I can say is there are two different sites on the net that mention that the memorial is dedicated to the french sailors who lost their life.
Here is one of them...

http://www.hmsfiredrake.co.uk/firedrake18.htm

ger

17-06-2008, 20:34

Hi Terry
I understand why people make this mistake - the memorial and the ship being interconnected in the mind. The ship was raised in 1954 as stated above (I have a vague memory of seeing her hull fastened between two salvage vessels, having been taken to a viewpoint by my father who had been a fireman in Greenock when she sank) and the memorial was unveiled after the war (not sure of the date); the inscription reads in English translation:

THIS MONUMENT IS DEDICATED TO THE MEMORY OF
THE SAILORS OF THE FREE FRENCH NAVAL FORCES
WHO SAILED FROM GREENOCK IN THE YEARS 1940-1945
AND GAVE THEIR LIVES IN THE BATTLE OF THE ATLANTIC
FOR THE LIBERATION OF FRANCE
AND THE SUCCESS OF THE ALLIED CAUSE

TO THE MEMORY
OF COMMANDER BLAISON
THE OFFICERS AND THE CREW
OF THE SUBMARINE "SOURCOUF"
LOST IN THE ATLANTIC
FEBRUARY 1942

TO THE MEMORY
OF COMMANDER BIROT
THE OFFICERS AND THE CREWS
OF THE CORVETTES "ALYSSE" AND "MIMOSA"
MISSING DURING THE BATTLE OF THE ATLANTIC
1942

TO THE MEMORY OF THE SEAMEN
OF THE FREE FRENCH NAVAL FORCES
WHO NEVER GAVE UP THE FIGHT
AND WHO GAVE THEIR LIVES GLORIOUSLY
FOR THE LIBERATION OF FRANCE
IN HONOUR AND THROUGH VICTORY

THIS MEMORIAL WAS DESIGNED AND ERECTED
BY THE OFFICERS AND MEN
OF THE FRENCH NAVAL BASE AT GREENOCK
WITH THE HELP OF SUBSCRIPTIONS
RAISED AMONG THE CREWS
OF THE FREE FRENCH NAVAL FORCES

You will see that there is no mention of the Maille Breze because as I said, she sank before the Free French Forces had been thought of.
The memorial is specific to the FFF and I am certain that in the political climate in France post-war this was no accident as the FFF considered themselves to be different to those who had surrendered while many of the latter considered the FFF to be traitors even although (and because) they had continued the fight.
You were also correct when you mentioned the web-sites that confuse the two subjects - in five minutes Googling, I found half a dozen, some of them by locals and naval enthusiasts who should know better.

Best regards

Gerry McGinty

astraltrader

17-06-2008, 20:42

Fair enough Gerry you have succeeded in convincing me!

ger

17-06-2008, 20:54

Hi Terry
Me again! I meant to say thanks for the picture of the MB on fire - I have not seen that before - it is an excellent historical document.
And also congratulations on the web-site - I am newcomer and am just beginning to appreciate its excellence.
Best regards
Gerry

astraltrader

17-06-2008, 22:52

Thanks very much Gerry - good to have you aboard. Although we are a relatively new forum we have some excellent members and a unique blend of facts and photo`s.

Jean Lassaque

22-06-2008, 08:05

Back on the forum after 2 month sailing in the Med...:cool:
Years ago, I wrote a book on the french Vauquelin-class destroyers and can confirme from official archives the 6 + 21 casualties.
At that time, torpedo were usually launched with compressed air but could in emergency (time lacking to get enough compressed air) be launched by mean of a powder cartridge-bag. On april, 30th after a drill, the bag was unwisely left in TT no 1 after the starboard bank was trained fore-and-aft again. The bag was accidentally set on fire and the fish went out....
Maillé-Brézé sank at 1020 metres bearing 71° from the Greenock custom pier lighthouse. Wreck was raised august 1954.
Hope this will be of interest.
Jean

astraltrader

22-06-2008, 11:27

Good to have you back aboard Jean. Do you happen to know if there were court-martial ramifications for any of the officers after the mishap?

Jean Lassaque

22-06-2008, 12:55

Hi,
Commander Glotin, Maillé-Brézé C/O, was court-martialed in Toulon on november 4th, 1940 and released.
He was even appointed to command the contre-torpilleur Volta from july 1941 to august 1942. He was eventually promoted to rank of captain.
In mid-november 1942, in Toulon, when Adm de Laborde, determined to scuttle the french fleet, asked his officers to swear formal allegiance to himself, a destroyer division commander refused. Captain Glotin agreed, took over and scuttled his ship on 27th.
Should you wish further info, please ask.
Jean

astraltrader

22-06-2008, 14:59

Thanks Jean - thought you might know! I was also wondering if you had any unusual pictures of French warships you could upload for us. You are more than welcome to put a few in the French Ships section or even create your own photo-gallery. I am aware of the imbalance of pictures we have here in the forum which very much favours RN ships. That is why I did my best and put together a few galleries of French warships. You are more than welcome however to take this a bit further.
Entirely up to you my friend...:)

astraltrader

05-01-2010, 00:25

An alternative picture of the Maille Breze.

steve roberts

05-01-2010, 09:06

astraltrader

05-01-2010, 16:04

Good God Steve - if true what a terrible plight that French doctor must have found himself in, not forgetting of course that of the French seaman awaiting their fate.

Yes there was another destroyer built bearing the same name - I think it was D627.

steve roberts

05-01-2010, 17:46

Hi Terry,Yes I think I would have flipped my lid,but I suppose he was carrying out as humanitary a duty as he could.Those men were dead already,he just eased death as much as he could for those he could do it for!:( Regards Steve.

Le Breton

05-01-2010, 19:46

D 627 MAILLE BREZE CLASSE T 47

MUSEUM SHIP IN NANTES

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/ee/maillebr/index.htm

fardle

02-02-2010, 23:38

Maillé Brézé: Don’t look out of the window!
In April1940 I was a primary-school pupil in Greenock, and the first indication of the seriousness of the incident was when the police burst in and ordered the school evacuated, with the accompanying injunction “Don’t look out of the window!”. Memories of Halifax 1917 were obviously still raw.

We were directed up the hill away from the waterfront and at every turn stood a policeman intent on preventing us from stopping to goggle at the blaze and keeping us moving out of the danger area. We quickly gathered that the destroyer was ‘stowed to the gunnels’ with ammunition and a horrendous explosion was feared should the fire reach the magazine.

A local nurse was a friend of the family and she later told of how the Old West Kirk in Campbell street had been commandeered as a dressing-station to deal with some of the casualties, as the numbers threatened to swamp the resources of the local infirmary. I believe that other church halls in the town had been similarly pressed into service.

Previous contributors have given accurate enough figures for the casualties – 28 dead and 47 wounded – but the full horror is not as I remember it. The vessel did not succumb to its self-inflicted wounds, but was scuttled. It was widely reported that when fire-fighters eventually acknowledged that the blaze was beyond control and an explosion imminent, some members of the Greenock AFS accompanied crewmen below to open the sea-cocks, taking the 21 trapped seamen to the bottom with their ship. Therein lies the full agony and the horror of the tale.

This was common knowledge locally, but for years afterwards was spoken of only in hushed voices and with a terrible sense of guilt which outweighed any pride that might have been felt at the fire-fighters’ bravery.

The funnels and masts of the sunken vessel were features of the Greenock landscape/seascape for fourteen years, before she was finally raised in 1954, when the bodies of the 21 trapped matelots were removed with due honour and respect and the remaining munitions removed. When she was eventually delivered to the breakers’ yard in Port Glasgow it could be clearly seen that there was no damage to the vessel below the waterline, so the firefighters’ account was substantiated. It is as well that war restrictions ensured that full details of the incident did not spread outwith the district at the time, as this would only have heightened the agonies of the bereaved.
John

astraltrader

03-02-2010, 01:21

An interesting account John and welcome to the forum!

03-02-2010, 08:58

Fascinating, John. Thanks for posting that!

steve roberts

03-02-2010, 09:58

Good post John.Nice to have an eye-witness acount of that disaster! Welcome to the Forum,enjoy your time here.Regards. Steve.:)

Darryl

01-05-2010, 15:08

My Grandfather Arthur Walker was in Greenock on another ship serving in the RN whilst this unfortunate event took place and he also told me of the ship's doctor administering injections through the portals to some of the crew who were trapped inside.
Here is a picture of various tenders attending to the ship.

astraltrader

01-05-2010, 17:52

Your picture must have been taken very near to the time of my photograph in post #1 in this thread.

Has your picture been taken from a book or is it a photograph too??

john arthur

05-05-2010, 06:13

The Maille Breze lay undisturbed at the Tail of Bank until the early fifties when salvage vessals attached to the boom defence depot Greenock raised it .Some remains of French sailors were also found I think eleven . Two of my uncles were on the salvage ships which were moored over the wreck for months before they could raise it . John Arthur

Wizzards

21-09-2010, 17:22

Hi Terry. As a fairly young sprog,I seem to remeber a terrible story of this disaster.A Medical Officer from one of the assisting Ships was rowed across to the MAILLE BREZE with a rather large ammount of Morphine.It was realized by this time that there was no hope of saving the French seamen trapped ind the Forward Mess decks of the blazing ship.He shouted in french for the men to push their arms trought the narrow portholes and injected them with an overdose of Morphine.As I recall he only managed to do this to six crewmembers,but at least they did not burn to death! Regards Steve.:( PS did'nt the French build another ship of the same name?

Hi Steve
Whilst reasearching my family tree, my father told me last year of the story of my Gt uncle who was the sick berth attendant on the Furious who administered morphine to those trapped on the Maille Breze as there was no hope of rescue and who would otherwise have endured an awful death. My Great Uncle never got over what he did, and committed suicide in 1948 aged 31 whilst still serving in the navy. Regards Wendy

05-10-2010, 22:14

I was emailed the following in response to this thread. It is from a David Morrice and gives some more details about the events. Thanks for the email if you are reading this David.

Having read the various snippets relating to the sinking of the French destroyer, Maille Breze, I which to confirm all that has been said about her and add a little. The ship was eventually raised in 1954 by Lifting Craft (LC) of the Admiralty Salvage Department and at least four Admiralty Salvage Vessels, ASV's) one of which was ASV Barglow. Also taking part was the ASV Succor" and ASV Kinbrace also I believe a HMS Class Bar Boat, much the same as the Barglow, "Barrington"?.

The LC's had the ability to increase / decrease their buoyancy by pumping water in or out of their hull but had no engines for propulsion as such hence the ASV's which did have engines. Wires passed underneath the wreak by divers tunneling under were attached to lifting craft either side of her, At low tide, with the LC low in the water, the wires would be clamped down then the buoyancy increased in the LC's by pumping out the water. At high tide the wreak would be raised to the maximum draught and moved forward until she beached. Then the whole process of the LC taking on water tightening up the wires pumping out the water again and waiting for the next high tide would be repeated.

Maille Breze was, after being made "watertight", taken up river to the scrap yard. The remains of the French sailors were collected up and a service held at the memorial overlooking Greenock, where I was led to believe, they were buried. The torpedo that was accidentally fired blew out the stbd side of the hull just aft of the fo'castle. This closed off the only entrance / exit to the crews accommodation and the crew were indeed "helped" by injecting them with morphine as it was impossible to escape through the portholes. Many got stuck trying to escape. The depth charges were taken to the entrance of the Gare Loch and exploded in the deep water (the fishing was good on that day)

After the final beaching and while the ship was being made sea worthy, all ammunition was removed prior to her final passage up the Clyde. As well as ships main armament shells, boxes of pistols in perfect order were found and other less recognisable handgranades, rifles and bayonets. by the dozen.

How do I know all this? I was on my school holidays as an 8 year old and my father was Captain of the ASV Barglow. After clearing the Suez Canal and helping out with HMS Edinburgh he ended up as the M.O.D. Chief Admiralty Salvage Officer.

steve roberts

06-10-2010, 18:20

Hi KC and Wendy.Thanks for your additional info Wendy I had heard the story if this act of mercy,and can well imagine as a Sick Bay rating myself,how it must of affected those who had to do this act of mercy, KC the e-mail is fascinating,At least it fully explains why those trapped in the forward mess decks could not escape.Thank you for posting it.
Many Many Regards Steve,

Mitch Hinde

06-10-2010, 20:55

Hi All

I have seen a few references to this disaster in a couple of books I read years ago, but until today I had no idea of the full extent of it.

As ex RN and an ex nurse I can see that the problems facing all concerned must have been horrendous, both during and after. I'll bet there was no counselling for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder on offer then, more's the pity, may have helped.

Mitch Hinde

rb.hants

14-10-2010, 13:32

My late father was the skipper of one of the boats which went to administer the morphine to the trapped sailors. The boat was called MV Blaven and served with my father on the Clyde as a Red Cross vessel during the war. There is also some brief film footage held by the Imperial War Museum showing Bismarck survivors disembarking from the Blaven.
Before being requisitioned by the Admiralty the Blaven was the passenger ferry between Mallaig and Armadale, Skye. After the war it returned to Mallaig where it took tourists on day trips around the west coast sea lochs and Inner Hebrides.
I have tried searching on the Internet for more information about MV Blaven during the war but to no avail. I don't know which body would hold the records.
Picture attached.

Lancashire Steve

15-10-2010, 20:37

In East Coast Corvette by Nicholas Monsarrat, written during the War, there's a comment from a diver about a wreck with skeletons half in and half out of the portholes, which I think was Maille Breze. The sort of image sleepless nights are made of.

astraltrader

15-10-2010, 22:42

Without a doubt one of the most horrific accounts I have ever read of a naval disaster.

Ever since first reading about it I have an indelible picture of the scenario imprinted in my mind. :(

16-10-2010, 13:54

Ever since first reading about it I have an indelible picture of the scenario imprinted in my mind. :(

That goes for me as well, except I have the benefit / hinderance of passing the site of the disaster on a daily basis, sometimes on foot. It's amazing and also frustrating to know that most of the other people who share the streets overlooking this tragedy have absolutely no idea about what happened there. Maybe I could get an article in the local paper - I expect that this thread comprises the largest collection of information about the event.

Fred Hillyer

16-10-2010, 15:21

I was on H.M.S.Martinet stationed at Geenock and we were involved with the salvaging. This was 1954 and the Maille Breze was lifted and placed on a sand bank close to shore. The actual lift was done by a civillian manned Bar Boat. The day this was done there was a very high tide, so the ship was put further inshore than was expected. When the water had drained out a great big eel was found in the messdeck and one of my crew members had to shoot it before
any thing else could be done. Bodies were found trying to escape through portholes.
One of the biggest problems were the depth charges on the upper deck these were found to be armed. The salvage crew refused to touch these and moved off the ship, so we had the task of removing them and taking them out into the Clyde (Tail of the bank) lowering them to the bottom and then blowing them up.
The day I left the Martinet the crew were lined up on the jetty with the coffins of some of the French sailors taking them to a memorial service.
I believe it was broken up as scrap.;)

astraltrader

17-10-2010, 02:18

That goes for me as well, except I have the benefit / hinderance of passing the site of the disaster on a daily basis, sometimes on foot. It's amazing and also frustrating to know that most of the other people who share the streets overlooking this tragedy have absolutely no idea about what happened there. Maybe I could get an article in the local paper - I expect that this thread comprises the largest collection of information about the event.

I think that would be a good thing to do Kc.

The chances are that this thread does provide the largest collection of accounts and photos about the Maille Breze disaster.

When I started this thread back in mid-2008 I had only just discovered what my photograph was showing and at that time the only other references to the Maille Breze and her horrific end was a half page article in a site about HMS Firedrake [she was the nearest warship to the Maille Breze at the time of the explosion] and another small account somewhere else that was mainly concerned about the monument to the dead French seamen.

Since then this thread has slowly but surely accumulated some really interesting accounts not just of the disaster but also of the subsequent raising of the Maille Breze.

Thanks to Kc for showing us the email received from David Morrice [post #35].
The details it provided about the subsequent salvage operation dovetailed nicely with post #42 from Fred Hillyer who provided us with an actual eye-witness account of the proceedings. Many thanks Fred!

I know I am probably being optimistic but I dont suppose you have any photos of the salvaging??

Next a warm welcome to new member R.B.Hants [see post #38], whose late father was the skipper of one of the boats that rushed to administer the morphine to the trapped sailors.
Thanks for your most interesting post as well as the excellent photograph of MV Blaven.

Finally a belated thank you to John [Fardle] for his excellent account of the effect the disaster had at that time on the local people from his unique perspective as a Greenock primary school pupil [post #27] and also to another new member Wendy [post #34] who told us about the effect the tragedy directly had on her great-uncle who sadly was the unfortunate sick-birth attendant. [A warm welcome to you as well Wendy!]

I am sorry it has taken a week and more to answer you both but unfortunately my elderly mother has been unwell and I have not been able to spend as much time here in the forum as I usually do for a few weeks and more now. :o

Fred Hillyer

17-10-2010, 18:22

86833

86834

86835

86836

86837

86838

Hi Terry I managed to find these few pictures what I did not mention, as we
were attaching the depth charges to the horns on the ship one of them was
dragged across the deck sparks flew up in every direction we all instantly ducked, we were very lucky. Fred Hillyer

19-10-2010, 10:54

Thanks so much for posting those photos Fred. They bring the thread to a neat conclusion. With photos taken moments after the initial explosion, an account of the immediate reaction on shore, the horrendous experiences of those who had to help the trapped seamen, and the accounts and photos of the salvage, I think we now have a very detailed picture built up of the whole disaster.

Of course, if anyone else out there reading this has similar stories or more information or photos, it would be great to have them posted here too. It's very satisfying to have the forum bring together a number of brilliant nuggets of information from different sources to form a whole picture.

Thanks to everyone who has posted here. :)

edit : I've added the ship plus photos to the database, and I'll add the accounts later. Here is the link (http://www.worldnavalships.com/directory/shipinfo.php?ShipID=1789) or search for Maille Breze in the ship search box.

astraltrader

19-10-2010, 17:49

I agree with Kc - thanks very much for taking the trouble to provide these salvage pictures - it is greatly appreciated. :):)

gerard44

28-01-2011, 05:08

Hello everyone,
I have just joined.
Reading about Maill& Brézé reminded me of another such disater which occured at Casablanca on March 23rd 1940.
The French destroyer LA RAILLEUSE (Adraoit class; 1500 tons) also torpedoed herself, becoming a total loss.
The loss was thought to have been caused either by a faulty compressed air reservoir or a badly designed system of rods and things that made it easy to fire the fish accidentally.
raised and broken up at Casablanca in 1942.
See "Les torpilleurs de 1500 tonnes du type ADROIT": Marc Saibéne ; Marines Editions, 2002
Casablanca was the scene of another explosion on September 18, 1939: the cruiser minelayer La Tour D'Auvergne (ex-PLUTON) sank after one of her own mines detonated part of her cargo. I have very little info on this. Maybe Jean Lassaque, who has over the past few years done so much to lift French naval history out of the doldrums, will be able to flesh out the bare bones.
A good day to all, regards,
Gerard
MAILLE-BREZE : There are two photos in Gerald Forsberg's "Salvage from the sea"; Routledge and Kegan Paul; 1977: One taken at the time of the incident, and another when the wreck was raised.