HM Submarines in Australia 1950's.

[spruso]

Hi All,

I used to go to Navy Days at Garden Island, Sydney with my father in the early 1950s. They always had a submarine in the dock that would dive, surface, and then fire a blank round off from her 3" gun.

The submarines were,Telemachus,Thorough and Tactician as far as I remember.

Although submarines were painted black in the RAN in later years, I am pretty sure these three were painted a bright sea-green around 1952-56.

Can anyone confirm this or have a photo.

Thanks in advance
Bruce

[astraltrader]

Hi Bruce - the problem is that all my pictures of these boats are in black and white - so whether or not a bright green is hard to tell! However if I remove the obviously black ones I am left with these. Maybe they are a greenish colour!?

[spruso]

Hi Terry,
The hull could well be green. It is certainly the tone of the color that I remember. Thanks very much.
Cheers
Bruce

[Kevin Denlay]

I must say those two beauties certainly don't look too aerodynanic to me. :eek: Must have been a sonar operators dream if he was tracking one of those ladies. :)

By the way, anyone have any photos of the Australian submarine AE1 that they could post?

TIA.

K

[CYLLA]

Is this a piccy we are after ,.....i was not into subs .



cylla

[astraltrader]

I have the same picture as Cylla but a bit clearer plus one other for the pot!

[Kevin Denlay]

Thanks chaps, who knows, maybe have some u/w ones of her to post one of these days. :)

Again, thanks, as havent seen either pic before.

K

[herakles]

I am wondering if these were the submarines given to the RAN at about this time?

If so, they were not much use as those that were given had to immediately undergo massive alterations.

[airlana]

I also remember the Navy Week. Dad had 28 years in the RAN and during the 1950's and early 1960's was often on ships at Garden Island or based at Kuttabul. So those years he was in Sydney, off we'd go the GI for Navy Week. Seem to remember it being in October.

The submarine dive was one of the main events, not forgetting the huge [well it seemed like that then] oil pan fires at the then vacant land immediately south of the dry dock. Great thick dense black clouds of smoke billowing up. Was "pollution" in the dictionary then? In due course the fire guys all suited up would rush out with hoses and tons of foam, and presto within a very short time the fire would be out. As kids we thought this was just 'super'

Lastly a picture to bring back the memories.
Enjoy

Ash

[kookaburra]

I'm posting this photo of HM Submarine Telemachus
in Australia, with an RAAF P2 Neptune overhead, because I thought it might stir a memory for Ashley and Bruce, guys who seem to be of similar vintage to myself with shared youthful enthusiasms.

I can't quite say why, but it is just a photo that seems to have been 'around' a lot back then - I think it must have been used in defence forces newspaper recruiting ads in the '50s.


Telemachus, btw, sunk the Japanese submarine I-166 in the Malacca Straits on July 17, 1944.

[tedtat]

Hi mates ,
I served on the Thorough and Tactitian from 1954 to 1956 couple of good boats and ship mates
Ted

[kookaburra]

Welcome to the Forum Ted.

By great coincidence, I'm about to post a pic of HM sub Thorough on our 'Shipping News. In Port...' thread in this section. Strictly speaking it should go here in Bruce's thread, but it has a particular additional dockside quality and other ships to it that I'm looking for in that thread, and which is not all that easy to find.

I'll edit in a showlink here shortly. BTW there's another pic of one of the T Class submarines with Aussie ships in Wellington on that thread, Post #4 or 5 from memory.

EDIT: Here's the showlink.

http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?p=56270#post56270

Hope you like it. Although the date on it says Feb 10, 1957, just after your time, there may even be some familiar faces or figures in it that are somehow familiar.

I will make it up to Bruce's thread here with some more pics of HM Sub in Australia a bit later. There are a few about. Cheers K.

[tedtat]

Hi K,
Thanks for the pics, and tell Bruce the boats were painted Green.
Ted

[spruso]

Thanks Ted,
I thought I was right. Wonder why they changed to black. I remember the Armed Forces Tent at the Royal Easter Show at Sydney in the early some beautiful models of HMAS Australia and the Battle Class DDs. Pretty sure they had a green T-Class submarine model there as well.

Must have changed to black in the mid-fifties as I went over HMS Thorough at Balmoral in 1957 and remember she was black.

Wish my memory was as good about recent things like - "Where did I put my @#!*?&> glasses!"

Cheers
Bruce

[kookaburra]

Oh my goodness, the Armed Forces tent at the Royal Agricultural shows. You've dragged back a memory that hasn't occurred to me for 50+ years.

Well, that's really done it. Now I have to spend the whole day sitting here crying over my lost and innocent youth.

[JSJ]

I was searching through the State Library of Victoria online database (http://www.slv.vic.gov.au/catalogues/index.html) and found these two photos of Tactician entering South Melbourne on 7 Jan 1953 [Allan C Green collection].

I also found (elsewhere) a related newspaper article. Looks like it arrived on time!

The SLV has some nice submarine shots, including one of Telemachus entering South Melbourne in Dec 1949.

[JSJ]

And something to bring back memories for those who served on her...

[Bear]

I was a sonar (asdic in 1963) operator undergoing my UC2 training in Queenborough in May 1963 when the ship collided with HMS Tabard. She surfaced directly in front of and very close to the Queenbee. In the control room we were convinced we'd sunk her when we hit. When the sub surfaced, the skipper sent a signal saying, "sorry about that, chaps. Thinking of buying a farm." I was a witness at his court-martial and I think he may well have bought that farm.

The T-class were modified in the mid-50s having that ugly snout removed, adding about 20 feet in length and improving the battery spaces among other modifications. They were much more streamlined and better looking subs than the original. If I knew how to post photos I'd post one so you could compare.

[deejay]

I was a sonar (asdic in 1963) operator undergoing my UC2 training in Queenborough in May 1963 when the ship collided with HMS Tabard. She surfaced directly in front of and very close to the Queenbee. In the control room we were convinced we'd sunk her when we hit. When the sub surfaced, the skipper sent a signal saying, "sorry about that, chaps. Thinking of buying a farm." I was a witness at his court-martial and I think he may well have bought that farm.

The T-class were modified in the mid-50s having that ugly snout removed, adding about 20 feet in length and improving the battery spaces among other modifications. They were much more streamlined and better looking subs than the original. If I knew how to post photos I'd post one so you could compare.

G'day Bear,
As you were on the Queenborough I was on the Tabard at that time. The collision took place after 0800 when I had just completed the 0500-0800 watch in the donk-shop. At the time of the hit I was actually on the throne about as far aft as possible on a stretched 'T'. I watched the shallow water depth guage creep from 100' to periscope depth and then the sound of props. 'We' then did a quick dive back to 100' with the order check all compartments for leaks.
Without being pedantic the boat did not actually surface as once 'you' were spotted heading for'us' it was a case of flood Q and get down quick. Despite our ping bosun repeorting HE all round or whatever the skipper still went to periscope depth. If we had been on the surface it would have been curtains I reckon. Closest I have been in boats .
Btw , to many old submariner the original 'Ts' were beautiful , real submarines, while the stretched and streamlined did not have the same character as the renowned WW2 'T' class, still beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that. It was unfortunate for the skipper who was respected( ex lower deck ) and well liked by the crew. I believe most of the troops would have gone anywhere with him. Sadly he, L/C Colin Hankin, crossed the bar some years ago

[deejay]

Hi All,

I used to go to Navy Days at Garden Island, Sydney with my father in the early 1950s. They always had a submarine in the dock that would dive, surface, and then fire a blank round off from her 3" gun.

The submarines were,Telemachus,Thorough and Tactician as far as I remember.

Although submarines were painted black in the RAN in later years, I am pretty sure these three were painted a bright sea-green around 1952-56.

Can anyone confirm this or have a photo.

Thanks in advance
Bruce


Prior to a change to black for all UK boat those in the Pacific area were what was often called Pacific Blue. in the Med it was Med Blue the home fleet boats were Atlantic grey. The idea I guess was to match the colour of the sea where they were operating at least that was my understanding.
With navy days in GI the Telemachus did the demo in '56 dive and surface , gun action and commandos etc.Some wag loaded the 4" with garbage although it didn't reach the viewers so no harm done

:D

[Ken W]

Kookaburra, great shot of that Sub and the Neptune; brought back distant memory.

In 1953 and 1954 on Vengeance, she carried out anti-sub exercises in Tasman, off JB on several occasions. Usually with a Neptune or two prowling around, and the sub eventually surfacing; distant object so no colour. Can't remember if Fireflies of 817 dropped sona-buoys; but remember talk of Soviet subs in area.

[sandy1000]

In the 1950s as a small boy I was shown over a submarine in Melbourne and I have always thought that it was HMAS Taciturn. Could that have been right?

[deejay]

In the 1950s as a small boy I was shown over a submarine in Melbourne and I have always thought that it was HMAS Taciturn. Could that have been right?

No it definitely could not have been HMAS Taciturn ( HMS please) but HMS Tactician. HMS Tactician the first of three T boats of the 4th Submarine Squadron based at HMAS Penguin Balmoral Sydney. She was also the first to leave Sydney for UK as the boats were rotated.
The names of the two boats are confusing, Tactician and Taciturn, although they were easily distinguished as the latter was a super or stretched T and streamlined with a dorsal fin whereas the Tactician was an original T with an open bridge and gun
The three stretched Ts arrived towards the closing of the squadron (1968) , Trump-Taciturn and Tabard, and this was in the early 60s or very late 50s. The last boat to leave was HMS Trump and she left from Neutral Bay what was RANTE during my time Hope that helps

[sandy1000]

[QUOTE=deejay;120219]No it definitely could not have been HMAS Taciturn ( HMS please)

HMS of course.

[deejay]

[QUOTE=deejay;120219]No it definitely could not have been HMAS Taciturn ( HMS please)

HMS of course.

To be more concise with your question the simple litmus test would be if the boat you saw as a youngster had an open style conning tower it was HMS Tactician. If the boat had the more modern fin it was HMS Taciturn or T-urn as she was colloquially known. Given HMS Taciturn's late arrival in the squadron I'll wager it was HMS Tactician you saw

[qprdave]

HMS/m Tactician

You don;t say when in the 1950s

HMS/m Tactician returned to Portsmouth on the 27th March 1956 to be paid off

[berry]

m
g'day all -f.y.i. -The following H.M.Submarines visited Trinity inlet,Cairns Queensland inthe 1950's-
1957-H.M.S.Aurochs and H.M.S.Telemachus
1958- ditto ditto
1959-H.M.S.Andrew.
regards
Sid

[qprdave]

HMS/m Tactician

Arrived Melbourne

7th January 1953 (first Submarine to visit Melbourne in two years

30th October 1953

[deejay]

HMS/m Tactician

You don;t say when in the 1950s

HMS/m Tactician returned to Portsmouth on the 27th March 1956 to be paid off

I was basing my belief on the fact that HMS Taciturn was a late arrival and may have arrived in Sydney in the very early sixties. Got this from the Australian submariners site it seems to answer the question now perhaps the originator of the question can supply the info, open bridge or fin and that should be conclusive


"December 1949 TELEMACHUS arrived in Sydney.
January 1950 THOROUGH arrived in Sydney.
July 1950 TACTICIAN arrived in Sydney.

These three submarines served until 1957 being refitted in Singapore during their service in Australia.

They were replaced by three "A" class submarines AUROCHS, ANDREW and ANCHORITE during the period 1957-1960. Indecently, ANDREW was the submarine used in the original film "On the Beach".


These boats were replaced by a streamlined TAPIR in 1960 and three "T" class conversions. TABARD 1961, TRUMP and TACITURN in 1962."

http://www.upperiscope.com.au/history/history_sm4.htm

[deejay]

I am wondering if these were the submarines given to the RAN at about this time?

If so, they were not much use as those that were given had to immediately undergo massive alterations.

Not sure about this but the UK boats 'on loan' to the RAN had no problems and only needed routine maintenance and refits apart from the odd collision or two. maybe it refers to the Collins Class as this link may explain



"Through participation in wargames and multinational exercises, the Collins class have demonstrated their effectiveness against surface vessels and other submarines. However, the submarines have been the subject of incidents and technical problems since the design phase, including accusations of foul play and bias during the design selection, improper handling of design changes during construction, major capability deficiencies in the first submarines, and ongoing technical problems throughout the early life of the class. These problems have been compounded by an inability by the RAN to retain enough personnel to operate the submarines—by 2008, only three could be manned, and for periods during 2009 and 2010, only one was fully operational. The resulting negative press has led to a poor public perception of the Collins class"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collins_class_submarine

[sandy1000]

I surrender - it wasn't HMS Taciturn that I visited in Melbourne in the mid to late 50s.

[Bear]

G'day Bear,
As you were on the Queenborough I was on the Tabard at that time. The collision took place after 0800 when I had just completed the 0500-0800 watch in the donk-shop. At the time of the hit I was actually on the throne about as far aft as possible on a stretched 'T'. I watched the shallow water depth guage creep from 100' to periscope depth and then the sound of props. 'We' then did a quick dive back to 100' with the order check all compartments for leaks.
Without being pedantic the boat did not actually surface as once 'you' were spotted heading for'us' it was a case of flood Q and get down quick. Despite our ping bosun repeorting HE all round or whatever the skipper still went to periscope depth. If we had been on the surface it would have been curtains I reckon. Closest I have been in boats .
Btw , to many old submariner the original 'Ts' were beautiful , real submarines, while the stretched and streamlined did not have the same character as the renowned WW2 'T' class, still beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that. It was unfortunate for the skipper who was respected( ex lower deck ) and well liked by the crew. I believe most of the troops would have gone anywhere with him. Sadly he, L/C Colin Hankin, crossed the bar some years ago

Sorry to be so long replying, I was googling something else and found a reference to your reply.
You are quite right, Tabard didn't surface, she came to periscope depth. You will have to forgive a skimmer using the wrong term.
How amazing that a sailor in the submarine and one in the surface ship should meet on this forum almost a half century after the event. I'm sorry we interrupted you so rudely back in 1963. :eek:

[Bazzaboy]

Sorry to be a late starter on this topic.

I can confirm Telemacus diving/surfacing in the dock and firing off a few rounds. And I also confirm that she was painted green.

Back in those days Trafalgar Day was a huge event at G.I. Wonderful memories of seeing all the warries alongside and open for inspection. The two favourites were definitely the sub in the dock and the carrier Sydney.