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thedock1010
23-05-2008, 03:02
I hope this is the correct forum for this post. I enjoy watching Television and video programs on Naval warfare, primarilly WWII, not a lot of good film prior, and one thing that especially bothers me is the use of inappropriate film for the subject or campaign being depicted. Are the film editors incapable of identifying the ships and equipment of different navies, or don't they care? Can anyone recommend a program or series where the film is more accurate to the commentary.

Commodore Armiger
23-05-2008, 05:58
"The World at War" tried hard and the programmes about WWII using colour footage were good.

I do agree that documentaries with incorrect footage are a particular bugbear, but even experts get it wrong (even in this forum occasionally!). Film of non-alled naval action was probably harder to obtain than British and US, so one can perhaps sympathise with a poor editor told to provide a cut showing a Japanese battleship firing a broadside showing instead an exciting shot that we "experts" immediately deride as having been, say, HMS Hood on exercise, in 1935.

Bear with the poor tank buffs who have to put up with endless shots of German tanks of 1939/40 vintage when the documentary is about Kursk or Stalingrad. And steam engine buffs seeing film of GWR engines when the documentary is about Euston!

tonclass
23-05-2008, 06:19
My biggest gripe is every time a war at sea/shipwreck documentary shows the ship being blown up, all we ever see is THAT footage of Barham !!!

Harley
23-05-2008, 11:35
Or poor Svent Istvan going over. Annoying!!

Harley

Kevin Denlay
23-05-2008, 20:46
Although one can 'understand' an editors need/requirement to get something in his doco to resemble what happened / is being described, one would think that at least they would not juxtapose the actual combatants vessels, as they do at times, to illustrate their 'need'.

Personally I find it irksome to say the least ('in the extreme' would be more appropriate) but the average viewer probably would not know the difference, nor would they care. Don't mean I got to like it though!

K

herakles
23-05-2008, 21:46
I have no idea of the inner workings of studios. But it strikes me that the solution to inaccuracy is in the hands of the advisor, assuming one has been employed.

In works of a military nature, these people are usually retired military people. Who presumably know. Or can find out.

It strikes me that their knowledge can be limited. For example, I'll not forget the TV re-enactment that had soldiers saluting with their left hands.

Still, considering the licence some producers take with history, what's a small technical error?

Hugh Williams
20-06-2008, 20:20
Hi,
I am of like mind here. It annoys me particularly when they portray a WW1 scene with footage from WW2, or even vice versa. I think that this shows lack of effort by the film makers/researchers.

It doesn't stop at War Films, because the same occurs in Railway footage, when advice is easily obtained and more obvious.

Regards,

Hugh Williams

herakles
20-06-2008, 20:48
And quite a lot of WW1 footage was contrived anyway. Particularly the shots of the battle of the Somme.

Commodore Armiger
21-06-2008, 12:28
Herakles:

Saluting with the left hand was only discontinued by the War Office on the same day as the Battle of the Somme began. As far as I know, for many years previously it had been allowed if the saluter was unable for some reason to use his right hand. Even earlier, officers saluting with swords also saluted with their left hand. Naval practice was no doubt different.

stewart mcloughlin
21-06-2008, 14:03
And it's always the same two soldiers on D-Day who get shot as they are going up the beach. You'd have though they had learned to have ducked by now. Usually out of context, but it's the same WW1 soldier carrying a wounded comrade on his back in the trench. The number of times that I have had stories published in the newspapers, they invariably get things wrong. Even when you spell it out in A-B-C, they will contrive to change it.
The press and the media are not particularly bothered about historical accuracy, as long as it sells newspapers and they get their portion of the licence fee.
And as for poor Barham, she has been in more films, and taken the part of more ships, than Larry Olivier. Ah well, nobody's perfect, but I stand to be corrected.:rolleyes:
Stewart

herakles
21-06-2008, 19:47
Herakles:

Saluting with the left hand was only discontinued by the War Office on the same day as the Battle of the Somme began. As far as I know, for many years previously it had been allowed if the saluter was unable for some reason to use his right hand. Even earlier, officers saluting with swords also saluted with their left hand. Naval practice was no doubt different.

Thank you CA, but I did know that. Having been saluted so many times. I was referring to the whole scale left-handed saluting I saw in one film. The Americans winning at Tobruk I think it was!

I am even vaguely aware that the RN salute differs from the Army one. :D

MelQuick
06-04-2010, 06:29
Hi Everyone

Other cardinal errors:

"HMS Hood was the biggest battleship in the Royal Navy." They've never heard of battlecruisers.

"Bismarck was the biggest battleship in the world." Wasn't the Yamato afloat by May 1941?

"Tirpitz was the biggest battleship in the world." Both Yamato and Musashi were DEFINITELY afloat by then!"

Mel

Scurs
06-04-2010, 09:21
You can really open a can of worms on this topic! :D

Many things irk me in this, in particular the "a sailing ship is a sailing ship".......19th/20th century steel ships look NOTHING like Tudor Galleons!!
Whilst using existing film clips is restricted by what is available, I would have thought when doing documentaries that a bit more attention to accuracy could be achieved.

Hollywood is of course an entirely different "ball game"....historical accuracy has never been allowed to get in the way!:)

steve roberts
07-04-2010, 16:45
I Recently started to collect a rather good set of metal die cast models from a company called Atlas Editions.To thank me for ordering, they set me a free DVD called A century of Sea Power.
I don't know who put it together but almost all the facts and figures are wrong.It soon found it's way into the bin!!!
Regards Steve.

alanandbren
07-04-2010, 17:30
I Recently started to collect a rather good set of metal die cast models from a company called Atlas Editions.To thank me for ordering, they set me a free DVD called A century of Sea Power.
I don't know who put it together but almost all the facts and figures are wrong.It soon found it's way into the bin!!!
Regards Steve.

I agree Steve. My grandson who collected the same set, sent me the DVD along with a set of cuff links all the way to Cyprus, I didn't have the heart to tell his Mum he could have saved the postage.

MelQuick
11-04-2010, 22:51
Hi

The other thing that annoys me is the reference in the media to the "British Royal Navy".

It's the Royal Navy, it has always been the Royal Navy and it always WILL be the Royal Navy. It may be smaller than in the past but its history, traditions and standards speak for themselves.

The adjective 'British' applied here is superflous.

Mel

r.morrison
12-04-2010, 10:09
What is even worse is to hear "the english Royal Navy" :mad:

MelQuick
12-04-2010, 11:05
RM

Agree with this.

Mel

phill rose
31-10-2012, 17:46
My biggest gripe is every time a war at sea/shipwreck documentary shows the ship being blown up, all we ever see is THAT footage of Barham !!!

Must agree over the Barham film it is truly horrendous, showing it time and time again especially when it is out of context is annoying.

As for the media, why do they have to refer to every warship as a *******
"Battleship", this even in the Telegraph which should know better.

Phill

Scatari
31-10-2012, 20:37
Nothing to do with films, but in the same vein as comments above concerning the incorrect appellations for the "Royal Navy"... with rare exceptions, Canadian media tend to refer to RCN ships as "The HMCS XXX" no matter how aften they are informed that "The Her Majesty's Canadian Ship" really doesn't make sense!