Is it possible to get copies of lost medals?

[briser_fae_the_broch]

When my father died I could not find his medals but I did find his miniature ones. Is it possible to get real size ones with my being his son? Someone told me they thought it is. Thanks.

[herakles]

I guess you are looking for an official source for these medals.

Because you can always contact a medal dealer and buy them from him.

[Odin]

If the medals have been lost whilst the recipient is still serving, then they will normally be replaced free of charge. If they are lost after the recipient leaves the service then the Medal Office will supply replacements to the recipient but at a cost (which can be quite high).

If a ex-serviceman dies and his medals have never been issued then again the Medal Office will issue medals to the next of kin free of charge. However if the man has had his medals issued and then dies, I'm not 100% sure but I don't think they would issue replacements to the next of kin, even if he/she was prepared to pay for them.

It depends what the medals are but if they are just WWII Medals (which were issued unnamed) buying medals from a dealer would be the cheapest way to replace them - the charges the Medal Office make for these medals are higher than that charged by dealers. If there are others like a Navy Long Service Medal then it is possible to buy copies of such medals from dealers. Naturally it would help to know which medals you are looking for.

[stewart mcloughlin]

For the definitive answer go to:-

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceFor/Veterans/Medals/
and taken from:-
http://veterans-uk.info/medals/replace.html
is:-
Medals for campaign service are supposed to be treasured possessions, reflecting service to one's country and awarded by The Sovereign on behalf of a grateful nation. While their market value is often only superficial (though some can be quite valuable, particularly awards for gallantry), the recipient is expected to treat them with care and be mindful of their security. In view of this, once medals are issued they become the sole responsibility of the original recipient, or his/her next of kin. They will not, therefore, be replaced by the MOD if they are lost. The only exception to this rule is if the medals are stolen or accidentally destroyed beyond the control of the owner, for example in a house fire. In these cases the MOD may replace the medal if proof of the loss is provided in the form of a Police Report or a claim to an insurance company. A charge is made for medals that are replaced to cover the cost of manufacture and a nominal charge for administration. It should be noted that in many cases the replacement medals will be stamped as such to avoid confusion with the originals should they ever be found. For those who have lost their medals in circumstances other than this, please do not apply to the MOD for replacements. In these cases it is recommended you approach a reputable medal dealer to obtain them (look in Yellow Pages). In most cases you will be surprised at how reasonably priced campaign medals are. Some people have suggested that second hand medals from a commercial supplier are less original than replacements bought from the MOD. This is not necessarily so. It should be borne in mind that the MOD does not hold vast stocks of new, un-issued medals dating back 50 years. The Royal Mint is still manufacturing medals for Second World War campaign service and supplies the medal offices in batches. Replacement medals will probably be of very recent manufacture, rather than date back to the late 1940s, so medals purchased from a commercial medal dealer may be, in fact, no more or less "original" than those supplied by the MOD.
Stewart

[briser_fae_the_broch]

Thanks for your replies - all my fathers medals were from campaigns after the war - he joined up in 1947 but served all over the world in a 23 year stint.
Like I said, I found the miniatures (I think there are about 6) but do not know where the original full size were - I guess he may have hidden them somewhere in the house and much of the effects was removed by a house clearance after I had sorted out what I could keep.
I may never find them and would only want copies if they had his name etc stamped on them.
From what you have told me, I am probably best to be content with what I have although I will look at the links.
Once again, thanks!

Incidentally, I also have a bag full of NCO stripes, service ribbons, RM beret badges, uniform buttons - an interesting collection which I will never part with.

[RCN]

If you can post pics of his badges & ribbons Odin or I might be able to ID for you.

The WWII stars & medal were issued un named. If yr father had a Naval Long service medal it would have been named to him with the ship he was on at that time,

Bryan

[briser_fae_the_broch]

Thanks a lot. Hope this comes out OK...
I should add that the larger group of medals were my Grandads and the DSM was something my Dad picked up on his travels.
Do you know anything about the Londonderry ones? Also, what are the random brass bits?

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e161/briser/IM000883.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e161/briser/IM000885.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e161/briser/IM000886.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e161/briser/IM000887.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e161/briser/IM000888.jpg

[stewart mcloughlin]

Tonight on TV a character was wearing the ribbons for a DFC and 39-45 star on VE Day. I can see that it would be OK wearing the DFC ribbon RAF of course), but does anyone know if they were issuing 39-45 Stars before the War actually finished?
I understand that medals were being issued to personnel on their de-mob '45 onwards, but how early were they allocating these Stars or the medals with definitive dates attached to them?
Stewart

[RCN]

The top frame - Sergt stripes (above & below), Colour Sergt rank badge (this is worn above the chevrons),
two Staff Sergt shoulder straps, & all of the crowns are Staff Sergt crowns.

Middle frame - the top row are lodge medals, appear to be RAOB lodge.
The miniature medals are: Naval Gen'l service & it will say on the clasp what campaign it's for, UNO Korea medal, & Naval LS medal.
then yr g'father's medals are: 1939-45, Africa, & Italt stars, Defence & War medals & I asume the next one (with the detached suspender) is the DSM you mention, & this one should be named on the rim, with the recipient's number, name, rate/rank, & ship.

Next middle frame - these are all tunic buttons & Royal Marine shoulder badges (I think)

Bottom frame: a real mixed bag here - The top three are cap badges, & the next three may well be also, there is a tie clip in the 3rd row, & an officer rank 'star' & crown & what looks like a British Legion pin, & an Army badge to its left; the bottom row the only item I recognize is the inglefield clip on the left, used on signal flags, & the item beside it appears to be a shackle pin.

Hope this helps you a bit,

Bryan

[herakles]

There seems to be a badge of the Durham Light Infantry there too.

[meercat]

That's a beautiful set of medals, etc., you have there. I was also going to try to get copies of my father's medals. He was on the HMS SWEETBRIAR and HMS PLUCKY from the beginning to the end of WW2, but I have no idea of the campaigns he was on, so I think it will be difficult to know which medals he had. I remember seeing them in a small box with his name on when I was young, but when he decorated the house somehow the medals got left behind a boarded up fireplace side shelf. When we moved years later we remembered the medals, but it would have been too late to retrieve them so the people who moved in to our house had a surprise find! If anyone knows of the campaigns that SWEETBRIAR and PLUCKY were sent on, and if anyone knows of my father, Tom W Morris, perhaps that might help.

[briser_fae_the_broch]

Thanks Bryan, that is excellent info!

Last night I found a photo of my father in full RM uniform with his full size medals on (I think it looks like 5) so I think I need to contact the office in the earlier link to find out what medals he received. I know he was in many places, Singapore, Germany, Aden for example so there possibly should be more.

Not certain why there was a Durham Light Infantry badge in there but both my father and grandfather were from Newcastle, perhaps they just picked it up from somewhere.
As for the DSM, if I can get the info off the rim and then trace the owner's family, I will try to get it to them. Its not going to be easy as it's quite worn. Is a DSM a Naval medal or does it cover all of the armed forces?

BTW, The naval General service miniature was for Malaya. Also the small blue ship badge is HMS Fearless which my father served on.

meercat, if I were you I would send a letter to them also (address is in the link) with the required info - Name, Rank, Number, discharge dates etc and see what turns up. The site does say they will not respond to email queries (I sent one anyway), and they also say it will take a while but I am sure it will be worth it.

[RCN]

Thanks Bryan, that is excellent info!

Last night I found a photo of my father in full RM uniform with his full size medals on (I think it looks like 5) so I think I need to contact the office in the earlier link to find out what medals he received. I know he was in many places, Singapore, Germany, Aden for example so there possibly should be more.


As for the DSM, if I can get the info off the rim and then trace the owner's family, I will try to get it to them. Its not going to be easy as it's quite worn. Is a DSM a Naval medal or does it cover all of the armed forces?

BTW, The naval General service miniature was for Malaya. Also the small blue ship badge is HMS Fearless which my father served on.



Perhaps if you post the photo of yr father I could try to make out the medals he is wearing.

The NGS medal for the Malaya campaign clasp ran from 16 Jun -31 Jul 1960.

The DSM was a Navy only decoration, & the one you have is for WWI (Geo V). I have the WWI roll if you send me the details on the medal rim, I will check for you. Some can be quite valuable, depends upon what action or service they were awarded for.

Bryan

[briser_fae_the_broch]

Thanks Bryan I will try to read the rim (eyesight not that good!).
My main aim would be to give it to the rightful owners - I remember my father saying he was keeping it for someone.

As for the pic of my dad, I will have to scan it in - it will not be easy to identify from that B/W photo though as its not a close up.

[RCN]

The chance of getting a WWI period medal back to descendants is pretty slim, but the recipient's service record will be available in the ADM 188 series at the PRO, so that will be a start for you,

Also this man with have at least War & Victory medals & possibly a 1914-15 star & a Naval LS medals as well, & his SR will reveal that via his ships. The WWI medal roll is also available in Adm 171 series so his entitlement can be verified there as well.

An interesting mystery for sure, but too bad yr father did not give you a little more to go on.......

Bryan

[briser_fae_the_broch]

BTW, I received a reply to my email from the medals office (that was quick!) with 3 pdf files, one was a colour booklet showing examples of all the campaign medals (very useful!) and the other 2 were application forms for information on medals awarded to an individual and how to apply for them as next of kin etc.
There are instructions on where to send the application form etc so I am encouraged and hopeful that I will at least obtain a list of what my father should have had even if i don't have them in my posession. If there are any he had not yet received, I should be able to apply on my mother's behalf for them.

Once again Stewart, thanks for putting me on the right track!

[james_harvey]

Hi

I applied for my nans medals. she was in the WAAF, I got them within 2 months, my grandfathers medals were lost many years ago, i wrote to the medal office and they sent me a list of his medals which i replaced through a medal dealer. Is it possible to query a claim as i think he was also entitled to the defence medal as he spent 8 months in ceylon subject to air attack?

my grandfather served in boom defence during the whole war.

regards

james

[Odin]

Many awards of the Defence Medal were for three years service in the UK (this included ARP, Home Guard, Fire & Police Services as well as in the Forces). It was also possible to qualify for the Defence Medal through non-operational service in the Forces overseas or outside the country of residence, provided that such service lasted for one year. In the case of territories threatened by the enemy or subject to bomb attacks, the timescale was reduced to six months. Whether there was a continuous threat of attack or bombing in Ceylon I don't know but I somehow doubt that the six month rule would apply there. His eight months would therefore be insufficient to qualify.

Also I think the authorities have a real problem if you try to offer a mix of service in the UK plus time overseas ie eighteen months in the UK and six months overseas. I think you have to meet the requirements of at least one condition in full (ie three years in the UK or one year abroad).

The Defence Medal is one of the most difficult awards to satisfy and quite a few people missed out by days. It took my father several attempts to get his and I still am uncertain as to how they finally worked it all out (he had time in the UK in the Home Guard and then time under training in the RMs and finally time in India - I think his UK time was just about enough to clear the three years).

I wish you luck with any claim but I suspect they will say he was deemed illegible before when they worked out his original medal entitlement.

[james_harvey]

thanks odin

Somehow he qualified for the france and germany star, i can only work out he was on HMS Kirriemoor sailing past france on way to uk from africa when he passed on 6/6/44 other then that he was on thames boom defence at isle of sheppey on the river thames, i can't see how that qualified?

Regards

James

[Odin]

For the RN and Merchant Navy any service afloat in direct support of land operations in France, Belgium, Holland, Germany etc in the North Sea (South of Forth of Firth to Kristiansand) in the English Channel or the Bay of Biscay (East of longitude 6 degrees West) between 6 June 1944 - 8 May 1945 qualified for the F&G Star.

He was in that area during that window but whether the ship was in support of the european war could be questioned. I suppose if they fired just one shell towards France to help with the D Day landings or at an isolated German coastal observation post then yes it qualified. His time on the Isle of Sheppey wouldn't have earned him the F&G Star.

[Albert Hall]

my old grandad was awarded the usual ww1 medals which i managed to get copies from the RN FOC. They would not however give me a replacement medal relating to British East African Campaign of the 1890's (Benin clasp), this is silver apparently. Someone in my family has it but can't track it down.

[Odin]

I suspect that if the East & West Africa Medal for Benin had been issued to your Grandad and you applied for a replacement after he had died, then the Medal Office would not issue a replacement.

I am surprised you even managed to get his WWI Medals as the Medal Office said some time ago they will no longer issue WWI Medals. HOWEVER when Harry Patch died recently they found that he had mislaid his WWI Medals and the ones he had been wearing were in fact someone elses. So within a very short period the Medal Office issued replacement WWI Medals (I think his medals were going to a museum). Then ironically his original medals were found amongst his effects!

[regg3y]

When my father died I could not find his medals but I did find his miniature ones. Is it possible to get real size ones with my being his son? Someone told me they thought it is. Thanks.

You could try http://www.awardmedals.com
They might be expensive but they do a good job.