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The picture below is of tobacco issue on HMS Cressy. The officer is a Staff Paymaster (Lt Cdr Paymaster). I was trying to identify the rank of the young man in glasses on his left. If you make the comparison with the Paymaster, the youth appears to have just a single white band around his sleeve. Am I right in thinking he is a Clerk (= Midshipman Paymaster). I don't believe they wore the white collar insignia that Midshipmen did.
Batstiger
27-03-2008, 15:36
I can't help you there but as well as the Baccy ration that looks like a couple of bars of "Pusser's hard" in his other hand.
Bob.
I would have never thought that their ration would have been whole tabacco leaves. It is hard to tell how dry it is, I wonder if it is intended to be smoked or chewed.
Pardon dragging your thread off subject.;)
Odin, Clerk was the equivalent of Midshipman and Assistant Clerk was the equivalent of Naval Cadet. The chap in the photo would appear to be an Assistant Paymaster of less than 6 years seniority. If he had been Clerk then he would have had the three cuff buttons denoting a "snottie".
Harley
tonclass
28-03-2008, 01:14
Is the rating on the left a Gunnery Rate, acting Petty Officer ?
Rik
The rate badge has a Queen's Crown on, so it's pre-1901-1902 (takes time to replace badges). Looks to be a Gunner's Mate badge, but that title wasn't introduced until the early 20th Century, so I'm just trying to find out what it used to be called!
Harley
What are the block looking things he has in his hands and are stacked on the floor in front of the table?
Batstiger
28-03-2008, 17:18
I have already given my suggestion Jeff. "Pussers Hard"
These were large blocks of Carbolic soap for Jack to do his Dhobeying with. When I joined as a Boy/seaman at HMS Ganges in 1952 it was still being issued then and possibly a long time after. We didn't get the tobacco leaf though!
Bob.
Well see, Bob, you need to use English when 'splaining things to us septics.:D
I saw that reference to Pusser's Hard you mentioned and didn't have clue as to what it was and I'm still not sure, as I don't know what "dhobeying" is. Is he to use it to wash his butt or his clothing?;)
I have already given my suggestion Jeff. "Pussers Hard"
These were large blocks of Carbolic soap for Jack to do his Dhobeying with. When I joined as a Boy/seaman at HMS Ganges in 1952 it was still being issued then and possibly a long time after. We didn't get the tobacco leaf though!
Bob.
herakles
28-03-2008, 22:05
Jeff,
dhobeying means washing. It's an English slang word that comes from the Indian language.
A unique feature of Mumbai, the dhobi is a traditional laundryman, who will collect your dirty linen, wash it, and return it neatly pressed to your doorstep. All for a pittance. The "laundries" are called "ghats": row upon row of concrete wash pens, each fitted with its own flogging stone. The clothes are soaked in sudsy water, thrashed on the flogging stones, then tossed into huge vats of boiling starch and hung out to dry. Next they are ironed and piled into neat bundles. The most famous of these Dhobi Ghats is at Saat Rasta near Mahalaxmi Station where almost two hundred dhobis and their families work together in what has always been a hereditary occupation.
Batstiger
28-03-2008, 22:31
Dhobeying is, or was a well known Naval word.
I'm sorry I didn't explain myself but I keep thinking all members are ex Matelots. I shall know better next time!
Bob.
Awe, go ahead and type what you normally would. If I don't know what it means and can't find it, I'll ask. That way, I can continue to learn something new everyday and you can keep the idiosyncrasies of language alive.
Thanks for your comments - by the way the word 'dhobi' is in the bigger Oxford English Dictionaries (= washing).
I dug out the Messina Earthquake Medal Rolls for 1906 as two ships of the same class were there - HMS Sutlej and HMS Euryalus. I checked the crew list to see if that would help and found:
HMS Euryalus:
1 Fleet Paymaster (Cdr) 2 Assistant Paymasters (Sub Lieut) 1 Clerk (Midshipman)
HMS Sutlej:
I Fleet Paymaster (Cdr) 2 Assistant Paymasters (Sub Lieut)
As we appear to have a Staff Paymaster and Asst Paymaster, I can honestly say that was no help at all. So if the chap is an Assistant Paymaster, has anyone got a photo of a Clerk RN?
No photo, but I can show you the utterly invaluable rank insignia table I have. Clerk and Assistant Clerk is № 35.
Harley
Thanks very much for that Harley - a very useful table. I'll now start through all the old navy photos, doing some rank spotting.
If you would, let me know if you come across any of the Assistant Paymasters under 6 years seniority - I've never actually seen the thick stripe and the broad stripe together a la Lieutenant j.g.!
Harley
herakles
29-03-2008, 19:03
Thanks for your comments - by the way the word 'dhobi' is in the bigger Oxford English Dictionaries (= washing).
There's understandably quite a few Indian words in the dictionary. Khaki comes to mind.
I would have never thought that their ration would have been whole tabacco leaves. It is hard to tell how dry it is, I wonder if it is intended to be smoked or chewed.
Pardon dragging your thread off subject.;)
Leaf tobacco, for pipe or chewing.
Strip viens out of leaves.
Treat with Rum.
Wrap in small canvas rolls and tie with string, like a small hammock.
Leave for 3 months. It turns out solid and pitch black.
Cut in small bits for chewing, or for filling your pipe
The rate badge has a Queen's Crown on, so it's pre-1901-1902 (takes time to replace badges). Looks to be a Gunner's Mate badge, but that title wasn't introduced until the early 20th Century, so I'm just trying to find out what it used to be called!
Harley
The Petty Officer in the white uniform receiving his issue wears the rate badge of a Torpedo Instructor for the time frame 1890-1903.
It appears as if he wears a crossed torpedo & gun. If the gun is crossed over the torpedo he would be a Gunnery Instructor.
Bryan
Further to Harley's posts concerning the rank of the Officer standing to the right of the photo (to the seated Staff Paymaster's left), he is definitely an Assistant Paymaster under 6 yrs seniority (ie: one gold band with the white distinguishing cloth below).
Here are colour illustrations of the Ranks of the Paymaster branch,
Bryan
Slightly off thread but leaf tobacco was still available in the late 40s. The ration of 1lb per month (two 1/2lb tins) could be had as cigarette, fine cut, at two and sevenpence, pipe, coarse cut, at two and threepence and loose leaf at one and ninepence. Pusser's hard was also known as Pusser's Vianola after a particularly fancy brand of toilet soap.
I am not sure of the precise date but one enterprising matelot obtained a professional cigarette rolling and set up in Chatham Depot. You could take your two tins of cigarette tobacco and exchange them for 400 cigarettes loose in a cardboard box. I suspect that the same occurred in other port divisions. Later the manufacturers took the hint and the blue liners began to appear.
Ken
ceylon220
09-06-2008, 17:30
I can't help you there but as well as the Baccy ration that looks like a couple of bars of "Pusser's hard" in his other hand.
Bob.
You mentioned "baccy" Bob, does the RN still issue the old Blue Liners(cigs) or have they gone the same way as the Rum ration. The Blue liners were throat cutters, we always said that this was sweepings from the fag factories, always pleased to get ship cigs after these.
ceylon220
14-06-2008, 19:28
You mentioned "baccy" Bob, does the RN still issue the old Blue Liners(cigs) or have they gone the same way as the Rum ration. The Blue liners were throat cutters, we always said that this was sweepings from the fag factories, always pleased to get ship cigs after these.
Is no one speaking to me, come on lads someone give me an answer on the above-----I have`nt upset anyone that I know of.:confused:
eskimosailor
20-10-2011, 19:16
Leaf tobacco, for pipe or chewing.
Strip viens out of leaves.
Treat with Rum.
Wrap in small canvas rolls and tie with string, like a small hammock.
Leave for 3 months. It turns out solid and pitch black.
Cut in small bits for chewing, or for filling your pipe
I believe the small roll was known as a "plug".
Steve
Teuchter
21-10-2011, 08:07
I can't help you there but as well as the Baccy ration that looks like a couple of bars of "Pusser's hard" in his other hand.
Bob.
It is indeed "pussers hard" - as immortalised in the opening lines of a once popular Navy "sods Opera" skit on Padre's sermons beginning
"Today being the second day after soap and tobacco issue, the lesson will be read from the Acts
The acts of Jack - taken from the third bottle in the fourth crate of Watneys
Jack son of Nahabob, son of Rayabob, son of The Paybob - who was a robbing barsteward and so on.......
I recall on joining in 1959 being issued with "Pussers Hard" but whether it was at the same time as the monthly issue of tobacco coupons I cannot recall! (the grey cells seem to be escaping faster than they used to these days!!:D)
I believe the small roll was known as a "plug".
Steve
Not being rude the whole thing was called a Prick of Baccy. Leaf tobacco finished being available about 49-50. Cut throat razors were also obtainable from slops, their availability finished about the same time as the leaf tobacco.
eskimosailor
22-10-2011, 12:44
Not being rude the whole thing was called a Prick of Baccy. Leaf tobacco finished being available about 49-50. Cut throat razors were also obtainable from slops, their availability finished about the same time as the leaf tobacco.
My grandfather used to tell me that, on Dover Patrol, he had to shave with a cut - throat razor using cold water and no mirror. That may be a good Sea Story.
Steve
Fairlead
24-10-2011, 16:25
KenY has passed this on to me to post here to give you a bit more information regarding the "Perique" or "Prick" of tobacco. Which by the way was not by any means confined to the seafarer - I remember my grandfather rolling his during WWII and he was a farm hand (ex Army).
The International Guild of Knot Tyers had a demonstration and made a video at the Museum of Sailors Ropecraft some years back, which can be viewed on YouTube by searching for 'How to make a Pirique"
The picture below is of tobacco issue on HMS Cressy. The officer is a Staff Paymaster (Lt Cdr Paymaster). I was trying to identify the rank of the young man in glasses on his left. If you make the comparison with the Paymaster, the youth appears to have just a single white band around his sleeve. Am I right in thinking he is a Clerk (= Midshipman Paymaster). I don't believe they wore the white collar insignia that Midshipmen did.
A most interesting photograph. The expressions! Not at ease with the photographer I guess.
My father spoke of his tobacco being issued as leaves by the RN whilst aboard HMS Cockchafer on the Yangtze, China mid 1930s. He was a pipe smoker. They had to return the veins, presumingly to make snuff.
I would like to download this photo if that is OK.
How can I credit it to you?
Regards
Verfain
I think leaf tobacco was discontinued about 48/49.
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