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spruso
23-03-2008, 20:35
Hi,

I have been researching the flags used on the Dress Lines of RN ships for the period 1889 to 2006. A brief summary of my research can be seen on my website at:
http://www.perthone.com/1df.htm

My research is ongoing and still has numerous gaps. I would be very grateful if anyone can supply me with copies of individual ship's Dressing Diagrams or photos of dressed RN, or Commonwealth ships between 1913 and 1948.

Cheers
Bruce in Oz

herakles
23-03-2008, 20:40
G'Day Bruce! Welcome to our Forum.

Ooooh, another Oz. This is good. Hope you stay mate and help fly our flag here.

Had a look at your sites. Most impressive. They'll be some old salts here who will warm to this.

There's a few of us most interested in Perth also.

Have you realised there's an Australian ships forum here? You'll find a couple of threads about Perth there. I would be interested in your thoughts about them.

Check out the "On This Day" thread in Battles and Events. I post much Oz stuff there.

astraltrader
29-03-2008, 23:49
Bruce - I have only just seen this thread and found your site you have linked from here to be really interesting. I have a good collection of ship photographs, postcards and stored images and I will see over the next week or so if I can come up with anything to help you with your "project".

spruso
31-03-2008, 02:13
Thanks Terry,

Any help would be greatly appreciated
Cheers
Bruce

astraltrader
05-06-2008, 03:39
Bruce - I sent a PM to you recently asking whether photo`s of Japanese Ships dressed with flags are of any interest. In case they are I have uploaded them here with another...

jbryce1437
05-06-2008, 21:12
A very interesting site spruso, you live and learn. I was under the impression that the "Bunting Tossers" just cleared out the flag locker, and any flags that were held in Naval Stores and strung them up the mast. I didnt appreciate that there was some logic to it all.


ps
Had a great run ashore when in Fremantle at Christmas in 1965 and was "up homers" with a Perth couple and their family. They took me and my oppo on a great tour of the outback and remember visiting some underground caverns, where my goose pimples stood out like Mount Everest, as it was icy cold, while it was around 34 degrees topside.:D

herakles
05-06-2008, 22:55
Frankly, I was surprised that the excellent site wasn't commented on by others before. It's been here for over 2 months.

spruso
06-06-2008, 03:40
Hi Terry,
Thanks for the Japanese photos. I am interested in them as they are hard to find. I have a few of ASHIGARA taken at the 1937 Spithead Review but unfortunately it was a windy day.

I haven't been able to find much on the 1880-90 period for the RN so anything you may think would help would be greatly appreciated.

I have started to do the USN dressing lines but it is still a "work in progress".

Thanks for all your comments gents.
Cheers
Bruce

astraltrader
06-06-2008, 16:48
Fair enough Bruce - glad to help shipmate...

astraltrader
07-06-2008, 20:51
And this one of the French Cruiser Montcalm...

Chris Howat
17-06-2008, 10:53
I was in Starling in Portsmouth in 1959 when the CinC, Admiral Sir Manley Power, sent us a rude signal for not being dressed overall correctly!
Starling normally had one mast but on this occasion we had had a second fitted a few days previously to carry a new radar for trial purposes. It had not been thought necessary to fit new lines. The CinC was very hot on all aspects of ceremonial.

historydavid
17-06-2008, 23:14
It would appear that most admirals are the same.

The C-in-C Mediterranean Fleet between the wars was so keen on the cleanliness of paintwork and brightness of brass work that if any of his ships were seen after having dirtied them with practice firing of their guns they got a rocket.

So much for being prepared.

spruso
18-06-2008, 03:07
Thanks Terry,
Great photos that will certainly help figure out what the IJN did. I hadn't thought about the French flags but it is certainly a nice photo. I haven't done much with the flags of late because have been doing the Family History (More difficult than the flags!) but I hope to retire soon and the flags are one of my projects.
Cheers
Bruce

astraltrader
19-06-2008, 19:26
Bruce - a few more that I have come across...

spruso
20-06-2008, 03:29
Thanks Terry,
You must a terrific collection of photos. Do you trust them to computer disk or are they prints? I have lost several to disks that developed faults.
Cheers
Bruce

astraltrader
20-06-2008, 03:41
I have a large collection of postcards and photographs and as well have over 25,000 images stored on computer. I dont use disks to back them up but have a separate external hard drive that provides a complete duplicate record...

astraltrader
20-06-2008, 03:46
Here are two more for you...

Joseph
20-06-2008, 06:21
Bruce,

A Modern photo of Dress Ship at the Turkish Naval Academy.

Regards Charles

astraltrader
22-06-2008, 16:50
A few more for you Bruce...

alanbenn
07-07-2008, 16:59
another couple of R.N Ships dressed for the occassion.
Alan

spruso
08-07-2008, 03:53
Thanks Alan for posting the images.
Cheers
Bruce

CYLLA
06-10-2008, 17:40
I have a few pics of VICTORIOUS at sembawang,but this one of her ,i am sure it was taken on the "Queens birthday ".....has any one got a date ...196?

cylla

tonclass
06-10-2008, 22:33
Any chance of a bigger version, Scylla ?????????

ChalkyWhite
07-10-2008, 07:16
Hello Cylla,

Your photo of Victorious alongside, dressed overall, brought back so many happy memories. I can almost guaruntee that the year was after 1962 as I served aboard as Homing Officer's Assistant on the 1960-62 commission in the Far East and I don't recall being alongside as depicted in this photo.
What really struck me with a great wave of nostalgia was seeing the chap sitting on the round down in your photo. My great pal Don Barr and I spent hours sitting there like that at sea watching the frothing wake and no doubt wishing we were homeward bound. A great photo, thanks for sharing it.

Chalky White

CYLLA
07-10-2008, 13:17
Hi Chalkywhite,
yep it brings back memories to me ,the times when we were berthed in the stores basin,and the long trek to the fleet cantine.

Rik i cant get a bigger copy ,as it came off a site,i tried to enlarge it as you can just make out another carrier,in the stores basin.
If there are any boffins out there with Victorious,history ,i wonder it it may have been a commando carrier.?

cylla

alanbenn
07-10-2008, 13:40
Rik, I have enlarged the Victorious photo slightly for you, does this help any?


Regards
Alan

astraltrader
07-10-2008, 15:09
A great job Alan!

alanbenn
08-10-2008, 11:01
one of the more modern ships displaying her flags.....


Regards
Alan

CYLLA
20-12-2008, 13:51
stumbeled OVER THIS PICCY,

Do you notice how these ships are dressed, ????:p:p

It looks like :bunts: has hung out his flags to dry , going from one ship to another,


CYLLA

jbryce1437
20-12-2008, 15:27
Looks like they are both singing from the same hymn sheet, both sets of flags appear to be in the same sequence and displaying the same message.
Which is what??? Can anyone enlighten us?

CYLLA
20-12-2008, 15:40
Now your a brave guy ,JIM .
I dare not ask that question LIKE THAT ,being a ex seaman.:D:D:D

CYLLA

Jan Steer
20-12-2008, 19:49
As an ex-communications rating I can tell you that there is no message. The order in which the flags appear are laid down in the bunting tosser's bible. The dressing line flags are added to or subtracted from dependant on the length of the vessel. As a retired sparker I can remember dressing ship overall oh so well! What a pain in the a***e it always was and the occasions so blinkin' frequent it hurt! When the flags became crabby we used to have to replace them as it would have been difficult to dhoby them on the dressing line. I remember an ancient killick bunting sitting and sewing with us. It was a chance for we boys to learn all the things that the seamanship manual didn't teach us like using stale bread to bring up the gold wire on our cap ribbons and to put salt in the water in our dhoby buckets when washing our collars so that the blue wouldn't run into the white stripes. Happy days when we were so proud to be sailors in the service of our country. When did it all go wrong I wonder.
regards
Jan

spruso
21-12-2008, 07:03
Have a look at my site here at:
http://www.perthone.com/1df06.htm

All will be revealed as to the order of flags used dressing ship since 1948.
Cheers
Bruce

mik43
21-12-2008, 14:06
Well done Jansteer, should've known there would have been a BR for it!!
Mik

jbryce1437
21-12-2008, 15:43
Many thanks for enlightening me, I knew there must have been some sort of method to the madness:D

Dreadnought
24-09-2009, 20:13
Hi Bruce,

Found this card of HMS Gibraltar in my collection. I'm not going to say much about this Edgar Class Cruiser as I see she has been covered in other threads.

I can't find any information regarding the relevance of 22nd June 1922 (unless 22.6.22 is not the date) as to why she is dressed. I know she was sold in September 1923 after having ended her service first as an Anti-Submarine School in Portland before becoming a depot ship. And I think she ended service in 1920

My Grandfather spent two years on her 1901-1903 .... I have no details of the ship's movements at that time but imagine it might have been tied up with the Boer War. No doubt someone on this Forum will know ..!

Postcard from my personal collection

jbryce1437
24-09-2009, 20:25
The date on the card is 22 June 1922 and is likely to have been taken at the Royal Fleet Review on that date, hence all the bunting

Dreadnought
24-09-2009, 20:34
Thanks JB ... knew someone would know in PDQ time ....!!

spruso
25-09-2009, 01:36
The date on the card is 22 June 1922 and is likely to have been taken at the Royal Fleet Review on that date, hence all the bunting

Clive,

Thanks for that photo. It is great to have an actual date for her. I don't think it was a Spithead review as I can't find one for that date. Maybe Southend or some other occasion.

I will have to do a bit of digging in my files as there seems that there may have been some changes to the flags around 1920-21. I'l post again when I sort it out.
Cheers
Bruce

dennis a feary
25-09-2009, 05:28
Most interesting Thread re flags. I have just posted in Flags / Pendants etc a pic of a submarine `dressed overall'. After seeing all the `skimmer ship' fully dressed here thought that it may be advantageous for all to see a sub, ditto.
Have been told that its `not done' to post & post items but seems so relevant that I am doing so !!
The boat PANDORA has 36 flags flying so all numbers and letters are being flown.

Sadsac

siggy63
25-09-2009, 07:40
Hello
For anyone wishing to see I have BR 222 here at home and this is the Buntings Bible with regards to dressing lines used and in what order to use with regards to various types of units. The publication also lists radio fits, V/S equipment onboard etc.....

Danny

dennis a feary
25-09-2009, 07:46
Danny, yes please, would be delighted to see BR222 - and I believe CLIVE and others would be pleased to see also. I have BR232 which is for 1937.
What year is BR222 for ??

Sadsac

jbryce1437
25-09-2009, 18:35
Clive,

Thanks for that photo. It is great to have an actual date for her. I don't think it was a Spithead review as I can't find one for that date. Maybe Southend or some other occasion.

I will have to do a bit of digging in my files as there seems that there may have been some changes to the flags around 1920-21. I'l post again when I sort it out.
Cheers
Bruce

The Review was at Plymouth. I found a site selling a print of the Duke of York inspecting the Fleet at Plymouth on 22 June 1922.

Dreadnought
25-09-2009, 19:49
Brilliant JB ... just hate not knowing about these things ...!!

spruso
25-09-2009, 20:30
The Review was at Plymouth. I found a site selling a print of the Duke of York inspecting the Fleet at Plymouth on 22 June 1922.

JB,

Thanks for that info.

I couldn't find it on the RN list of Naval Reviews. The Home Fleet review on the Clyde in Scotland in 1947* never appears on any list either. Looked on the net and found it must to have been to welcome the return of the Prince of Wales from his World Tour on HMS Renown at Plymouth on 22nd June 1922. There is a clip on Pathe News of the event.

*See a small clip of it here.
http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=49211 titled "The King visits the Fleet 1947"

Cheers
Bruce

spruso
25-09-2009, 21:57
Hello
For anyone wishing to see I have BR 222 here at home and this is the Buntings Bible with regards to dressing lines used and in what order to use with regards to various types of units. The publication also lists radio fits, V/S equipment onboard etc.....

Danny

Hi Danny,

Eureka!! I have been searching for these books for some time. Have sent you a PM regarding the Dressing Line Diagrams.

Cheers
Bruce

Dreadnought
27-09-2009, 09:45
Have you seen this one Bruce?

Iron Duke. Seen here after she became a gunnery training ship because you can see that her Y turret has been removed. You can also see the two 4 inch anti-aircraft guns that were added. This work was carried out in 1931. She became a depot ship in 1939. So I guess this photo must be at either the King George V Silver Jubilee Review, 16th July 1935, or King George VI's Coronation Review 20th May 1937. I have found a reference to her being at the 1935 Review so best bet is on that one methinks.

Out of copyright photograph taken by Richard Perkins

spruso
27-09-2009, 20:45
Thanks Clive,
That's a great shot. I hadn't seen that before. I think it's 1935 looking at the No.5 pennant which has only 3 red stripes. She also appears on the 1937 Review Plan. Unfortunately my 1935 plan has "gone into the abyss!"

Cheers
Bruce

fearless_rs
28-09-2009, 14:36
Despite beng one of the Sparkering boys, I have had to step in for non-handling LRO(T)s and offer the following.

There was a caveat on a full dress ship when ICW Aussie Charles F Adams ships (Perth, Brisbane, Hobart) If I remember rightly it was Masthead ensigns only. Not sure why.

Navy News a long while back, had an article from the Royal Yacht Britannia on dress ship and how their flags came out of the funnel. Our 1st Lt in Mohawk read it and came hurtling into the MCO and was hearbroken to hear the Yeoman tell him that we had two working funnels and couldnt do it.

The aft funnel kicked out the exhaust for the G6 Gas Turbine and 'roasted' the flags near it if it was flashed.

Regards

alanbenn
28-09-2009, 19:23
Here's a nice early shot of Alexandra, fully dressed.

Regards
Alan

siggy63
07-10-2009, 09:06
Hello All
Apologies for not getting back to you earlier but been busy with studying and shift work

BR 222 - the last time an update was carried out was at HMS Osprey in 1995.
I believe the dressing line diagram is somewhere onboard HMS Cavalier as I used this to beg/borrow flags from HM Ships and create the Cavalier's dressing lines at that time.

Photos - got a few somewhere of HM Ships at various Navy Days dressed overall and will try and get them scanned.

Diagrams - I think some will be already on your site but here's what I could find to hand.

Danny

spruso
09-10-2009, 20:09
Hi Danny,
The 1930s dress lines are from my site at www.perthone/1df.htm. (The have since been corrected as new information has come to hand) There were some changes made between 1919 and 1922 and it looks like individual flags were
changed between 1922 and 1936.

If we can't locate pull-out dress line diagrams for these years then maybe dressed ship photos will help provided we can accurately date them.

Cheers
Bruce

spruso
21-12-2009, 19:15
Despite beng one of the Sparkering boys, I have had to step in for non-handling LRO(T)s and offer the following.

There was a caveat on a full dress ship when ICW Aussie Charles F Adams ships (Perth, Brisbane, Hobart) If I remember rightly it was Masthead ensigns only. Not sure why.

Navy News a long while back, had an article from the Royal Yacht Britannia on dress ship and how their flags came out of the funnel. Our 1st Lt in Mohawk read it and came hurtling into the MCO and was hearbroken to hear the Yeoman tell him that we had two working funnels and couldnt do it.

The aft funnel kicked out the exhaust for the G6 Gas Turbine and 'roasted' the flags near it if it was flashed.

Regards

Just found out from an ex-PERTH matelot that the CF Adams class were unable to do a full dress because of the position of aerials on these ships.

Cheers
Bruce