SHIPS/BADGES - CRESTS etc

[SCRG1970]

Tom

Thanks for that it was the L23 badge that didnt come across very clearly

Regards

Gerry

[Pedlar]

Attached the actual badges for L23 and L33 I have posted all the unofficial submarine badge on the Barrow website together with the article covering submarine badges

[Mikey]

Badge a friend has just carved for me,Fraser Gun Range.
Will look a lot better when i paint.

[Tom Grant]

Greeting Mickey

This from my collection Fraser gun range

Regards
Aye Tom

[Mikey]

One i have done for HMS Ludgate,from ffoulkes blason.

[SCRG1970]

Mikey/Tom

Is Fraser Gunnery Range stll open ? I remember doing my MRS3 Training there in 1960.

Regards

gerry

[Mikey]

Mikey/Tom

Is Fraser Gunnery Range stll open ? I remember doing my MRS3 Training there in 1960.

Regards

gerry

Hi Gerry,Closed i think.

[dennis a feary]

ALAN, thanks for that. Somewhat disappointed tho !!
My local RNA has acquired the `ships' Bell of HMS/m L6, and I thought it would be nice if I could get a badge to go with it.
The concern that passed it on did not want it to go to RNSM - sad is it not ?

Sadsac

[Tom Grant]

Greetings Joseph

Any chance you have a nice badge of HMS STORK the one i have is a bit scruffy (Diamond shape )
Thanks

Regards
Aye Tom

[joseph bonnici]

hi Tom got this , hope you like it., Joseph

[Tom Grant]

Greetings Joseph

Beautifull !!! Thanks

Regards
Aye Tom

[Tom Grant]

Greetings again Joseph

any chance you have a shield shape badge of Tyrian, i only have circles in my collection

Regards

Aye Tom

[bill19637]

Looking through my collection - I came across following ships boats badges
[Boats Badges as opposed to Ships Badges] - These are identifiable usually but not having the Naval Crown above the Badge and Screw holes are normally clearly visible.

Shown below are HMS Boreas, HMS Castor, HMS Chrysanthemum and HMS Eclipse

[harry.gibbon]

Yo there Bill a belated welcome from me... glad you got your preferred RO2 badge in gold... best I could do at the time was the RS's option... presume you will start to mooch around the threads in time... perhaps the Comms one where there are guys who were in about your time in the mob..

Best regards... happy surfin

Little h

[joseph bonnici]

Tom here is the TYRIAN badge, did nt have the shield type before so i created for you, Harry you can copy the badge from here, please note that you was right :) Joseph

[bill19637]

Yo there Bill a belated welcome from me... glad you got your preferred RO2 badge in gold... best I could do at the time was the RS's option... presume you will start to mooch around the threads in time... perhaps the Comms one where there are guys who were in about your time in the mob..

Best regards... happy surfin

Little h
Hi Harry

Thanks your warm welcome. Yes came across a disc from 'yonks' ago which had all the ranks/rates/trade badges of the 40's/50's. It was quite nostalgic when you consider todays structure.
Will eventually get to Communicators - have tried twice but got lost - it's only cos I got this thread inb my 'Favourites' I can get back - Navigation obviously isn't my strongest point.

Thanks Again

Bill

[Tom Grant]

Once again Thanks Joseph

What computor Programme are you using, to do up the badges, I have installed photoshop pro at the moment

any help i can be ,just ask
Regards
Aye Tom

[joseph bonnici]

Tom i work on two programmes (photoscape) and (jasc paint shop pro) ,Joseph

[bill19637]

Here a few more Boats Badges for
HMS EREBUS, HMS FOLKESTONE, HMS GLORIOUS & HMS JUTLAND

Still coming across them

[bill19637]

Here 4 more Boats Badges

HMS NABOB, HMS NICATOR, HMS PRINCESS MARGARET & HMS SIKH

[Scratcher]

Joseph,Do you think you could work your magic with a copy of St Austell Bay for me please.Forever in your debt.The example I have is not very good.

Peter.

[alanbenn]

Scratcher, here's the ready made version from my collection complete with motto.

Regards
Alan

[SCRG1970]

Bill

Nice set of Boat badges, thanks for posting.

Regards

Gerry

[Scratcher]

Many thank's Alan,Joseph I owe you a tot.

Peter.

[Tom Grant]

Scratcher, here's the ready made version from my collection complete with motto.

Regards
Alan

Greetings Alan

But and there is always a But!! In the sealed pattern for St Austell Bay,

The word bay is on the second line Eg, St Austell
Bay

Regards
Aye Tom

[Mikey]

HMS Wayland (unofficial) repainted

[alanbenn]

Tom, my versions of the badges are not exact copies of the sealed pattern, otherwise all would have different coloured frames and crowns and name boxes.

I have made all my collection in gold frames, irrespective of shape and with black name boxes and gold letters, so that for the person who wants to create a display of badges it is more uniform and in keeping with the actual ships badges.

The actual ships badge would not be as per that sealed pattern, ie. it would be a gold frame and crown and most likely the name all on one line.

Note the original posters photo of the badge.. St. Austell Bay is all on one line.

But....I take your point.

Regards
Alan

[Scratcher]

Mikey,is the attached badge the official one then?.

[Mikey]

Peter,
It is another unofficial version. I don't think Wayland had an official.
This is another version,someone has hand drawn

[SCRG1970]

Mikey

Nice one of the Wayland, well worth the effort.

Regards

Gerry

[Mikey]

Thanks Gerry.

[alanbenn]

The word bay is on the second line Eg, St Austell
Bay



Tom, I made a quick call to one of my friends in the RNA who is also an avid collector of the badges, his opinion of this is that it's only depicted that way by the artist, the dockyards when producing badges would only use a 2nd line if the wording could not be resonably fitted into the name panel in one line. There wasn't as far as he knows any specific size for lettering.

The example he told me to look at was emperor of India and indeed he is correct (as usual)

Emperor of India consists of 14 letters and 2 spaces a total of 16.

St. Austell Bay consists of 13 letters (including full stop) and 2 spaces total of 15.

I've attached the sealed pattern for Emperor of India to illustrate.

Hope this may clarify it....but no doubt as we know it probably raises more questions:D

Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Mikey, really like your efforts on the 2 unofficials of Ludgate and Wayland, for some reason 'Wayland' seems to crop up a fair bit in discussions regarding official badges. I've had several requests in the past for this badge....so I think a lot of people believe there is an official badge, but none have come to light.

I particularly like the Ludgate badge although I can't recall a Hms Ludgate, not a name that springs to mind.

Seems to me there are a lot more unofficials than there are officials.

Pleased I don't collect them too.....the work involved would be never ending.

Hope to see more of your obvious talent in reproducing those badges.

Thanks for posting them.

Regards
Alan

[Mikey]

Thanks Alan,Yes there are 1000's of unofficials out there.Ludgate was a Barrage/Gate Vessel.

[Tom Grant]

greetings Alan

You have hit the nail on the head with you remark about unofficial badges , as you know i collect both unofficial and official, and its never ending, lots of different badges for each ship, sometimes as many as eight or nine unofficial badges for a ships name as well as the official badge , but thats what i enjoy, the collecting and the reasons for each badge,and i try to give each badge a full page in my books with as much info as possible, have you seen this unofficial badge for the emperor of India, notice the Insert
Regards
Aye Tom

[alanbenn]

Tom, yes interesting insert to that unofficial badge, now I can't say off the top of my head but I'm sure that, that particular sign hasn't always been associated with Nazi Germany, it had a more meaningful image before being adopted by the Nazi's.

I'm sure someone will tell us in due course.

I do enjoy looking at these unofficials you all keep coming up with, but I don't know if I could put in the amount of effort needed into reproducing them all, when I know how long I've spent on the officials.

Anyhow, if I can help with any questions or badges for comparison please just ask, I'm getting closer to finishing the updating of my badges, but although not completed updating, I still have every official badge issued should you need one.

Regards
Alan

[Mikey]

Hi Alan,Not badges i know,but interesting logo on the shirts of this HMS Tumult crew 1919

[alanbenn]

Mikey, yep again seen but not to be believed....your photo made me look it up out of curiosity.


Here's what I found..



Until the Nazis used this symbol, the swastika was used by many cultures throughout the past 3,000 years to represent life, sun, power, strength, and good luck. Even in the early twentieth century, the swastika was still a symbol with positive connotations. For instance, the swastika was a common decoration that often adorned cigarette cases, postcards, coins (http://www.luckymojo.com/goodluckcoins.html), and buildings. During World War I, the swastika could even be found on the shoulder patches of the American 45th Division and on the Finnish air force until after World War II.




So dating your photo at the end of ww1 the swastika had a totally different meaning.

RegardsAlan

[Mikey]

I agree Alan,it was a innocent symbol till the Nazis adopted it.
An early go at Truculent.

[alanbenn]

Interesting mikey, where did that design come from? It bears no resemblance to the official badge, although the description for the official badge is fierce and savage aggression.....so I suppose it may have come from that.

Regards
Alan

[fleetchief]

There are two available on Internet. A used volume two for $30usd and an as new both volumes for a staggering $357usd!!!!!!! OUCH! It better be good!!

K

I have both of Tim's volumes, and the two volumes that Derek Taylor produced. The best bet now is the CD version of Tim's books. Available from ebay or direct from Stone Frigate. Cost about £30. Has about 80 NEW badges, including all those up to 2008 AND all 119 FAA squadron badges. Very good because you can search on various fields or just browse.

[alanbenn]

Fleetchief, welcome to the forum and especially this wonderful thread.

Stopford's new cd is a wonderful reference tool as you say and has a good search facility the members that do have it seem pleased with it.

The badges however are dipicted just the same as they are in the book, majority of which need to be improved upon if you want them for display.

As stopford himself says many have been damaged over the years with exposure to light etc, colours have faded etc.

Hopefully when completed my own cd will correct that although it won't be an elaborate interactive cd such as his....too expensive to produce.
But it will have good high resolution badges of which there are many examples on this thread.

Enjoy your time with us and if you need any help in any way please ask.

Regards
Alan

[Pedlar]

The attached is a main armament tompion for Emperor of India, it was offered for sale in the USA at an auction, a friend of mine bought it and it is now back in the UK. Also the latest sealed pattern, I know it has been around for a long time but it was only approved last year.

[Pedlar]

Another badge repatriated from USA
HMS Renown

[Mikey]

HMS Tracker unofficial badge.Sealed pattern is part of the unofficial tidied up by the College of Arms

[mik43]

Pedlar

Thanks for the FAA pattern which I have downloaded if 'tis ok with you.

Mik

[dennis a feary]

ALAN / MIKEY, re the `Nazi' badge - no problem Cos it aint !!
If you notice it is `the wrong way around' - that sign can be seen at most ancient Roman Villas (Fishbourne in Sussex & Falkenberg in Holland. It wa also connected with the Knights Templars (but some call them a Nazi party !)

Sadsac

[Scratcher]

It is also an Indian Hindu religious symbol,it is carried by a lot of Indian Merchant Ships usually below the eyes, for good luck I was told.

[alanbenn]

Has about 80 NEW badges, including all those up to 2008 AND all 119 FAA squadron badges.


I'm a little astounded that the cd has around 80 new badges....can anyone say what the 80 new badges are?

I know that's a lot to trawl through but It seems a bit of a high figure.

Having only just got the books and looking at my own collection I didn't think I was missing as many as that.

If anyone can help it would be most appreciated.

Regards
Alan


PS. I'm posting this badge today...Hms Siskin the badge was for the FAA Base 1945-1956 it then became part of Hms Sultan as what I don't know.

[Tom Grant]

Greetings Alan

SISKIN was FAA base ( hence the Bird Siskin) During WW11, It then became Sultan (Marine Engineering School), Before that Sultan was in the far east and thats were lots of Servicemen left from to come back to Uk, Both have the Fort Grange in the badge, Fort Grange is part of the Naval Establishment and is part of Parkingsons Follies( the Fort built around Portsmouth )

Regards
Aye Tom

[alanbenn]

Tom, Thanks for the explanation, I was under the impression Siskin was part of Hms Sultan....my brother in law served there doing his 'stoker' training, whilst I was up the road at Hms Collingwood doing my Radio Electrical training.


Regards
Alan

[SCRG1970]

Mikey/Pedlar

Many tks for your excellent unofficials recently posted. I thought I had a few but realise I am a beginner compared to you two and of course Tom.

I think your posts are just what the thread needs to compare with the sterling work that Alan and Joseph have carried out. The number of views for this thread says it all.

A big thanks to you.

Regards

Gerry

[alanbenn]

Gerry, I echo your sentiments too. Until these unofficials came onto the thread I had little interest in them really as I collect the officials.
However, I now find them fascinating to look at and to compare against the originals and look forward to seeing more, although I must admit I still don't have the desire to collect them, but would also get a great deal of pleasure from helping to recreate some of them.

Regards
Alan

[Mikey]

Unofficial badge i have redone and info for HMS Test

[joseph bonnici]

Mikey i created this badge for you ,hope you like it

[Mikey]

Mikey i created this badge for you ,hope you like it

Thanks Joseph,very nice.

[alanbenn]

Mikey/Joseph, that is a good looking badge for Hms Test, however if I could point out one point, the roses would almost certainly have been coloured not plain white and plain red, ie. green leaves, coloured centre.

This is the case in almost every official badge that depicts the rose.

Here's a few examples of officials with a rose depicted for reference.

Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

For those avid fans of unofficials amongst you here is a badge I noticed on eBay currently offered for sale, it is for Captain F, some of the badges depicted in it I notice are Hms Boxer and Hms Battleaxe.

1st one I've seen of this type.

Regards
Alan

[joseph bonnici]

Alan i just copied the badge he sent, im just a copycat :D , thanks for your information ,you re the master and always want to be perfect in your work, for that im grateful thanks Joseph

[Mikey]

Hi Alan,I agree most are,even the blason on this one says proper,but it is the Southampton coat of arms (without the fishing rod) and many versions are plain roses

[alanbenn]

Mikey, I agree it is a difficult one to consider if you should follow the design from the arms or go with the designs for sealed patterns.

The only rule is if you're happy with it that all that matters really.

Keep 'em coming, I'm really enjoying your input of these badges.

Regards
Alan

[joseph bonnici]

Alan have you a bigger size than this one, too small for me to repaint, thanks Joseph

[alanbenn]

Joseph, I'm afraid I don't, it's an unofficial badge, Wave Sovereign wasn't issued with a badge.

Regards
Alan

[Tom Grant]

Greetings Alan

You may be aware of this but up until 1946 Canadian ships did not have OFFICIAL BADGES , But they displayed a badge on their gunshield known as GUNSHIELD GRAFITTI well i have a vast collection of these motives, and now not only do we have official ,unofficial we also have the gunshield Grafitti, some very nice badges were used lots of Disney Charactors, etc
but all used as badges to identifiy an individual ship during WW2
This is just one example of HMCS CALGARY

Regards
Aye Tom

[Pelican]

Hi Alan,I agree most are,even the blason on this one says proper,but it is the Southampton coat of arms (without the fishing rod) and many versions are plain roses

Pardon me for poking my nose in Gents but saw Southampton mentioned. Attached Earl of Southamptons' coat of arms circa 1610. Thought it might be of interest? David.

[alanbenn]

Tom, yes I was aware of that, I think somewhere on the forum the gunshield grafitti had been mentioned, possibly earlier in this thread. edit......here's the link to what's been posted so far.


http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?p=51258&highlight=gunshield#post51258

However, I'm sure members would be interested in seeing them, as you say they were the fore runners to the official badges.

Regards
Alan

[Pedlar]

Mik, feel free, as with everyone else who posts on this site all my postings are available to download.This has to be in the top ten of unofficial badges HMS Tiger the battlecruiser. Why it was not used for the later Tiger is a mystery there are plenty of examples around, one of the screen badges was used as a dinner gong at Greenwich. As there seems to be some interest in the unofficials I will start to post some of my collection. I put unofficials into three groups, letterheads and drawings, sweetheart brooches and the actual badges themselves. I then use the letterheads and sweethearts to identify otherwise unnamed badges. I will stick to actual badges to start off and see how we go.

[Pelican]

David.
I would be very interested in any photos you have on the dockyard and cemetry,I was there in 1952 when the dockyard was in its final closure.
I disembarked from HMS Snipe, with an LEM as we were classified as hostilities compliment,and were based at RNOs cottage.
Harry
For No Grub and No Tot Harry. Dockyard fotos now posted. Regards David.

[SCRG1970]

Pedlar

Look forward to the posts of your collection, you certainly started with a cracker of the Tiger.

The letterheads are a subject of thier own but interesting to see how some of these speculative designs by engravers and printers ended up pretty close to the adopted design sixty or so years later.

Regards

Gerry

[Mikey]

Unofficial for the Hunt Class Minesweeper HMS Pytchley 1916-22

[bill19637]

Here a couple of ships pictures - hope brings back happy memories for someone on forum

HMS BRAVE, HMS CHIDDINGFOLD & HMS DOVEY

Regards

[Pedlar]

A couple of V & W destroyers now. Vanoc was unusual in that she was the only one of the class for which no record of an official badge exists, and she was around until 1945. The other two are both for Vancouver. If any of the badges are wrongly identified please let me know, always willing to learn.

[astraltrader]

Thanks for the pictures Bill.

[bill19637]

Here some pictures just received on e-mail of the new USS NEW YORK - Bow section was made from 24 Tons of Scrap Metal from the Twin Towers disaster. Double Smokestack representing the Twin Towers.

I very rarely say it - "but good on the yanks"

[SCRG1970]

Pedlar

Nice badges of the V Ws. Could you confirm the motto on the first Vancouver badge please???

Regards

Gerry

[alanbenn]

Earlier in the thread I gave an example of 2 ships with the same badge.

RFA Olynthus which was renamed RFA Olwen but retained the badge.

Todays example is the same badge in 2 different frames for 2 different ships.

Hms Whitley....was supposed to be named 'Whitby' but a typo error was made and the ship was named 'Whitley' the badges design was that of the Mace in the house of commons, referring to John Whitley the speaker of the house.

Later, Hms Speaker was launched and the same badge design was used for the new ship, but in the round shape frame.

A rare occurrence indeed for the admiralty.

Badges attached......hope you like them.

Regards
Alan

[Scratcher]

Alan,Do you know the translation of the Badge Speaker please.

[alanbenn]

Certainly, .....Facta non verba translates to 'deeds not words'

Regards
Alan

[joseph bonnici]

Alan nice badges, have both of them but never noticed they got the same badge, thanks Joseph

[bill19637]

Couple more photo's of ships

HMNZ MANAWANUI, HMS GUERNSEY, HMS LIVERPOOL & HMS OCEAN

[alanbenn]

Bill, some excellent photo's there, thanks for posting them.

I must admit I have always overlooked the postcard photo's where the badge is incorporated when adding to my collection, as I personally think they spoil the photo, but they are quite collectable judging by the amount of interest shown in them on eBay etc.

When I do some of my display frames as I call them, I always have a good sized photo and then the badge is displayes seperately.


I've attached an example, I use a navy blue border of thick card and make cut outs for the photo's, the example is how the finished article would look at A4 size.

Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Todays 2 lesser known badges are as follows...

Hms Sphinx.......RN Camp in Alexandria 1942-1946

Hms St. George...RN training base at Douglas, Isle of Man 1939-1945 and then became special duties school at Fareham.

The St. George badge is one of my top favourites.


Regards
Alan

[ltotenby]

Yes Alan, I agree with St. George Badge/crest - Brilliant..... But, I must admit, that 'lay-out' is something else........... Fab.... George

[alanbenn]

George, thanks for the comments re: the layout, it's a while since I sold any, more than a year in fact, but I used to sell quite a few. I made frames with about 8 ships and badges and would put them into class type,
Battleships, frigates, destroyers etc. Frames would measure approx 24" x 18" so quite large.

Suprisingly or not maybe, I got a lot of orders from USA.

I haven't made any for sometime, too busy at present.

I also do quite a few Parachute Regiment frames in a similar way which I donate and they are sold by the local Para Association to raise funds for their members trips away etc.

Anyhow pleased you liked it. Here's a few more examples of what I usually do.

Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Further to my last post I've attached one of the frames I usually do for the Parachute Regimental Association, the photo of Pegasus over the Arnhem bridge is a beautiful print which I have never seen anywhere else on the internet, it is where I took the poppy from to add to the tribute to chalky.


Anyhow onto todays badges....2 more lesser known are...

Hms Ladybird.....insect class ship, but also the Rn baseship at Sasebo 1950-1953

Hms Landrail......RNAS Macrahanish 1941-1946 & 1951-1952

And finally a RN badge for a ship that wasn't in the RN......she was transferred to the Australian navy on completion...but the badge had already been designed and passed as a sealed pattern......Hms/Hmas Stalwart.

Hope you like...

Regards
Alan

[ltotenby]

Those displays Alan - Tremendous........... Thank you for showing us all just how brilliant your skills really are............Cheers for the latest badges.. George

[joseph bonnici]

Alan excellent as usual ,Joseph

[Mikey]

Info on the Stalwart badge.
The sealed pattern shown in Tims book was redrawn by Chatham Dockyard in 1973 using the blazon only for details. ffoulkes drawing shows a single acorn upright with two leaves protuding from it's stem. (Leaves, stem,and cup green, acorn gold)
And the badge for the second HMAS Stalwart.

[alanbenn]

Mikey, interesting that the badge was changed by the RAN.

I'm a little confused by the 1st badge which says probably......(probably being the important word)...passed as a pattern in 1919.
Which would refer to the destroyer and if passed would have been in a shield-shaped frame and the motto would not have been included in the design. If it was official why hasn't stopford included it in his book or cd?

Has anyone seen a shield-shaped design for Hms Stalwart?

However, what is obvious is that the Stalwart badge in round frame as depicted in stopfords book and I'm assuming also on the cd, isn't and never was a sealed pattern then?

Regards
Alan

[tomparry]

Mikey, interesting that the badge was changed by the RAN.

I'm a little confused by the 1st badge which says probably......(probably being the important word)...passed as a pattern in 1919.
Which would refer to the destroyer and if passed would have been in a shield-shaped frame and the motto would not have been included in the design. If it was official why hasn't stopford included it in his book or cd?

Has anyone seen a shield-shaped design for Hms Stalwart?

However, what is obvious is that the Stalwart badge in round frame as depicted in stopfords book and I'm assuming also on the cd, isn't and never was a sealed pattern then?

Regards
Alan
Alan
Copy of HMS Stalwart taken from the CD.
tomparry

[alanbenn]

Tom, thanks for the badge as seen on the cd, same one as in the book, again noticable that it is a copy. Obviously the design was made but I'm having doubts as to if it was ever passed as an official pattern.

If I may ask Tom, do you know what the 80 new badges are on the cd?

I don't know what is meant by new badges, because there hasn't been 80 new ships. So I assume that some are maybe round designs for previous shield shaped badges etc.

But if you or anyone else could list them I really would be most grateful.

I wouldn't want to miss any that I may not have.

Regards
Alan

[dennis a feary]

Somewhere in Ships/Badges I posted a request for translation of `Sic Transit Gloria' !! Cannot now find it and cannot see any answers.
Well here is MY translation.
`Sic Transit Gloria' = `Gloria Spewed in my Tranny' !!!!

Hic x 3 Sadsac

[Mikey]

Somewhere in Ships/Badges I posted a request for translation of `Sic Transit Gloria' !! Cannot now find it and cannot see any answers.
Well here is MY translation.
`Sic Transit Gloria' = `Gloria Spewed in my Tranny' !!!!

Hic x 3 Sadsac
Sic transit Gloria is a Latin phrase that means "Thus passes the glory of the world," but is more commonly interpreted as "Fame is fleeting."
This is the closest i can find

[dennis a feary]

Alan, Mikey, Joseph, ALL - here is a badge given to HMS DWARF, which was a similar / chummy ship to HMS ELFIN.
DWARF had a badge but ELFIN did not.
I wonder if any of you could make up a ships badge for me for ELFIN ???
I envisage it being an ELFIN (young Elf with slightly pointed ears and `angelic' face) with dress opposite to Dwarf, being green hat red tunic and green shoes - or as you think fit. I have hunted for a pic of an Elfin, but not been able to come across a suitable one.
ELFIN was a Torpedo Recovery Vessel - so perhaps crossed torps would be suitable !!

Be most grateful for any help.

Sadsac

[tomparry]

Tom, thanks for the badge as seen on the cd, same one as in the book, again noticable that it is a copy. Obviously the design was made but I'm having doubts as to if it was ever passed as an official pattern.

If I may ask Tom, do you know what the 80 new badges are on the cd?

I don't know what is meant by new badges, because there hasn't been 80 new ships. So I assume that some are maybe round designs for previous shield shaped badges etc.

But if you or anyone else could list them I really would be most grateful.

I wouldn't want to miss any that I may not have.

Regards
Alan
Alan
On the Cd there is no mention of any addition badges. But I know that he has two badges for HMS Defender, as you say an additional round shield. If I can give you the different alphabetical total of badges, we may be able to narrow it down.
FAA Squadrons = 122 ; A = 109 ; B = 112, C = 160 ; D = 78 ; E = 52 ; F = 68 ; G = 64 ; H = 66 ; I = 31 ; J = 20 ; K = 25 ; L = 83 ; M = 84 ; N = 35 ; O = 44 ; P = 81 ; Q = 14 ; R = 100 ; S = 209 ; T = 119 ; U = 44 ; V = 77 ; W = 84 ; X = 1 ; Y = 2 ; Z = 10.
If you can see any that stand out to you I can check to see if there are any multiple badges for the same named ship.
Regards,
tomparry

[joseph bonnici]

Dennis all i can do is send you the Dwarf badge repainted, to create the Elfin badge you need a master not a student , bye Joseph

[Scratcher]

You know Joseph,you should take up Badge Painting as a Job,you seem very good at it.

Peter.

[dennis a feary]

Joseph, great stuff, well done & thanks.
Now, to follow on from Scratchers suggestion - Chin up, chest out, put your best scribbling finger forward - give the ELFIN badge a try, PLEASE, just lets see what you can do !!!

Sadsac

[joseph bonnici]

Peter that was my job when the navy was stationed here, iv e retired after 42 years working at the dockyard , what i need now is relax, Dennis im sorry about the Elfin badge, could nt find any pics suitable to fit a badge, maybe somebody else will help ,thanks for your appreciation Joseph

[alanbenn]

Tom, thanks for the info but alas is of no use to me, as I have already created the extra badges for ships not listed in the book, ie defender, dauntless etc.

The book is too long to list, I was hoping someone who had both could have checked, long job I know, but the only way to be accurate.

But thanks for the trouble you have gone to, it is very much appreciated.

Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Dennis, I promise I will have a try at recreating the Elfin badge for you as soon as I find the time.

I'm back at work at the moment after a long period of illness and just completed the 2nd of 4 12 hour day shifts.
Have to be up at 05-30 and don't get home until 19-45 so by the time I've eaten and showered not much time left before bed ready for the next shift.

But Hopefully will get onto doing the badge at the weekend if you don't mind waiting.

Regards
Alan

[dennis a feary]

Joseph - OK quite understand. I have searched for ELFIN's & not found any suitable (to me), so how can I expect you to do so.
Alan - thanks for offer and I await with eagerness, but much patience for anything you may be able to come up with. I did think of just changing the image on the badge around, but it is of a DWARF & not an ELFIN. Perhaps crossed torps will be the answer after all.

Again Ta to all Sadsac

[Scratcher]

Can anyone help me with this one please.

[joseph bonnici]

Peter here s your Humber, going to watch football BYE ,Joseph

[Scratcher]

Thanks Joseph,still have been unable to find anthing out about it.

[alanbenn]

Scratcher, the badge you posted is the official badge for the Humber Division RNVR.

regards
Alan

[Mikey]

Frm Tim Stopfords cd.

[derekw]

Hi Mikey . Could you tell me how you have managed to copy badges from Stopfords CD . I've only managed to print them on to 6X4's so far . Regards , Derek

[joseph bonnici]

Hi MIKEY this is my version, Joseph

[Scratcher]

Many thanks Alan and Joseph.Re Humber.It makes sense when you see the RNR insert.

[alanbenn]

Hi all, I have managed to come up with this design for Dennis's Hms Elfin badge that he requested.

I have incorporated a torpedo into the design, I hope it meets with everyones approval, your comments on it would be most welcome, so I know if it is appropriate as a design or not.

Regards
Alan

[joseph bonnici]

Alan as HMS Elfin was a torpedo recovery vessel im not thinking of another design it s most appropriate, well done ,Joseph

[Scratcher]

I go along withJoseph,nice one Alan.

[dennis a feary]

ALAN, `well done that man' - great, great stuff. Thanks so much for your efforts. If I could make an `observation' - perhaps the ears a little more pointed, and the face / lips not quite so prominent. That is only observation PLEASE do not take it as criticism !! I am only too grateful to you for the badge. I will inform my crew of ELFIN in Holland and see what they think to it. If they like it, is it possible for us / them to `adopt it' as the ships `official' badge ??
I concurr with JOSEPH's comment - the matching of torpedo and ELFIN are most appropriate.

Sadsac

[dennis a feary]

ALAN, further `observation' !!
The `more pointed' remark as to the ears I meant for the TOP of ear. Perhaps the pointed LOBE could be a little less. And the hat a little more pointed as in the DWARF badge.
Again, not a criticism - just me being `Oh so pedantic'. It is the best effort I have seen. I have had others give it a try, but none have come up with such a good design. Hope Holland likes it so that it can be adopted.
If they do then I will have to find `someone' who could make up the actual badge for me - ANY OFFERS readers ??!!

Sadsac

[ltotenby]

Alan - You NEVER Fail to provide top quality skills...... George

[tomparry]

Tom, thanks for the info but alas is of no use to me, as I have already created the extra badges for ships not listed in the book, ie defender, dauntless etc.

The book is too long to list, I was hoping someone who had both could have checked, long job I know, but the only way to be accurate.

But thanks for the trouble you have gone to, it is very much appreciated.

Regards
Alan
Alan
I've listed all the Badges, on Stopford's CD, under 'A'. If this will help I will continue to cover each letter from the CD. If you need to queery any of the Badges, I can post each one. Hope this will help to identyfy the extra 80.
tomparry

[alanbenn]

Tom, the list is perfect. I would really appreciate the rest, thanks for the obvious time consuming task you're doing on everyone's behalf.

Regards
Alan

[Pelican]

Alan have a look at post 43 on the Comms thread. Mite ! be one you have not got but I doubt it? Regards David.

[alanbenn]

Dennis and all, thanks for the comments regarding the Elfin badge.

No prob's with any critisms Dennis, that's why I asked for comments.

If I could address the points you've made, not being an expert on elfin's I managed to look up the origins, although a mythical creature like a dwarf, the elf/elfin supposedly differs in that the ears are pointed at the lobe not at the top, hence the rounded top of ears. They are described as more sinister than dwarfs and are child like, so no beard. For some reason the majority of pictures I could find were of female elfin's with wings and carrying a bow and arrow. I decided against those as that would conflict with a few official badges.
Of the pictures of male elfins, all had similar type hats with feathers, I don't know the significance of that, but none had pointed hats like dwarf's or gnomes.

However if you wish for me to change it I can, just let me know, it won't be a problem.

Regards
Alan

[astraltrader]

A brilliant job Tom!

[Dreadnought]

Hi there everyone,

Just joined the Forum yesterday ... wish I had found it a long time ago. Because of my interest in ships badges I started reading this thread this morning, not knowing how long it was. Well I have just finished reading every post ...!! 3 hours. Must be the best thread of its kind on the internet. Congratulations to all contributors. I feel like I know some of you just through the last 3 hours of joy. It is difficult to post anything new, but how about this one ...

Badge for HMS Royal Prince shown. What HMS Royal Prince? Nothing in J.J Colledge. Google only finds a painting of a ship in 1670 or an SBS station in Krefeld, Holland. A badge with no ship ...?

Clive

[Tom Grant]

Hi there everyone,

Just joined the Forum yesterday ... wish I had found it a long time ago. Because of my interest in ships badges I started reading this thread this morning, not knowing how long it was. Well I have just finished reading every post ...!! 3 hours. Must be the best thread of its kind on the internet. Congratulations to all contributors. I feel like I know some of you just through the last 3 hours of joy. It is difficult to post anything new, but how about this one ...

Badge for HMS Royal prince shown. What HMS Royal Prince? Nothing in J.J Colledge. Google only finds a painting of a ship in 1670 or an SBS station in Krefeld, Holland. A badge with no ship ...?

Clive
Greetings Clive
Welcome to the Forum,
I know how you feel, I was also very pleased to come across this web site and i look forward to checking my mail each day to hear the chat on the forum, I have been collecting info on ships badges for over thirty years,these sort of threads were a long time comming , all credit to Alan and Co for a wonderful job bringing us all togther , at last!!!
Regards
Aye Tom

[nogrub]

Mikey.
At long last I have managed to get photos of nearly all the badges and memorials in St Georges Centre, plus the smaller stained glass windows, they are not brilliant, as you get a lot of glare, but they are the best I can do.
I hope to post them in groups when they sorted and tidied.
Regards
Harry

[mik43]

Hi Alan

Excellent work on the 'Elfin' both paintwise and also on digging out the 'history' bit. May I please make on observation, just that, not a criticism, shouldn't the 'elfin' be facing to the left as you look at the badge? I've just done a very quick check of Stopford and all faces/animals and others etc are either full face or facing to the left. There is one where the head of the animal is turned to the right, but the body faces left!!

Anyway it doesn't change my comment that is is an excellent bit of work!

Mik

[dennis a feary]

ALAN, thanks for your understanding. Your comments on ears / beard / hat - I bow to your superior knowledge - you have done your home work - I did'nt !!
Re the girl ELFIN's - wings / bows etc - that is all I could find, and they did not go with `my' ELFIN.
Have had one comment from Holland - `its funny and most appropraite for ELFIN.
I have a `plaster cast' of a badge. If I sent it too you `with some recompence' would / could you be kind enough to paint the ELFIN badge for me ???? Please, if it is too much trouble, refuse / put me off, and I would quite understand. I could not do it, and some people that I have asked in the past, I am sure could not be so good. Indeed I will not ask such of them.

Again, many, many thanks Alan.

Sadsac

[alanbenn]

Mikey, you're right most do face to the left with the odd exception.

I will change it to face left when I here from Dennis if there are any other changes he wants me to do. Thanks ever so much for pointing that out, that's the reason I asked for comments, a fresh pair of eyes so to speak.

Regards
Alan

[dennis a feary]

Hello Badge Buffs, these may have been on Forum before, but I am too lazy / Idle to search thro the list (see re CLIVE's comment on 3 hours).
Re the comment by MIK - faces to the left - that thought had not occurred to me. I await to see your input on that ALAN.

Sadsac

[dennis a feary]

Hello ALAN, seems we are both `here'. If you could try a `left facing' design - to be `correct' - I wonder if there was ever an `official' direction on that fact. As I write I believe DWARF is looking slightly to the right !!

Sadsac

[alanbenn]

Dennis, looks like our last 2 posts over-lapped each other.

If you're happy with the badge as it is great, I'll make the one change that Mikey has pointed out and settle on that as the design.

As for your other query, it isn't something I've attempted before and although I would have a go I'd be a bit worried at having a go on a plaster cast 1st attempt.

Now I'm not trying to put you off here, but we have a proven artist in Vegaskip who has some excellent paintings on his Jim's ship paintings thread, I'm sure that with a copy of the design he would probably be a safer option than me.....give him a shout and see what he thinks, if not then come back to me and I will have a go myself.

Regards
Alan

[SCRG1970]

Hi there everyone,

Just joined the Forum yesterday ... wish I had found it a long time ago. Because of my interest in ships badges I started reading this thread this morning, not knowing how long it was. Well I have just finished reading every post ...!! 3 hours. Must be the best thread of its kind on the internet. Congratulations to all contributors. I feel like I know some of you just through the last 3 hours of joy. It is difficult to post anything new, but how about this one ...

Badge for HMS Royal Prince shown. What HMS Royal Prince? Nothing in J.J Colledge. Google only finds a painting of a ship in 1670 or an SBS station in Krefeld, Holland. A badge with no ship ...?

Clive

Clive
First of all welcome to the best thread of the best forum !!!
Badge was for the Shore Base of that name at Krefeld Germany
It was the Base for the RN Rhine Squadron 1949-1958.

Regards

Gerry
Listed in Warlows "Shore Establishments of the RN".

[alanbenn]

Hi there everyone,

Just joined the Forum yesterday ... wish I had found it a long time ago. Because of my interest in ships badges I started reading this thread this morning, not knowing how long it was. Well I have just finished reading every post ...!! 3 hours. Must be the best thread of its kind on the internet. Congratulations to all contributors. I feel like I know some of you just through the last 3 hours of joy. It is difficult to post anything new, but how about this one ...

Badge for HMS Royal Prince shown. What HMS Royal Prince? Nothing in J.J Colledge. Google only finds a painting of a ship in 1670 or an SBS station in Krefeld, Holland. A badge with no ship ...?




Welcome Clive, thanks ever so much for you comments, praise indeed, I do hope it will become the best source on the internet for ships badges.

The badge of Royal Prince can be found at post #1698 if you look back on the thread. It gives a brief account of when the badge was in use.

Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Dennis, here's the Elfin badge facing left.


Regards
Alan

[Dreadnought]

Welcome Clive, thanks ever so much for you comments, praise indeed, I do hope it will become the best source on the internet for ships badges.

The badge of Royal Prince can be found at post #1698 if you look back on the thread. It gives a brief account of when the badge was in use.

Regards
Alan
Thanks Alan ... how embarassing ... only went through all the posts this morning ... don't know how I missed it. Will make sure I search next time ...!!

Clive

[Mikey]

Mikey.
At long last I have managed to get photos of nearly all the badges and memorials in St Georges Centre, plus the smaller stained glass windows, they are not brilliant, as you get a lot of glare, but they are the best I can do.
I hope to post them in groups when they sorted and tidied.
Regards
Harry

Thanks Harry,i look forward to them being put on the forum
Mikey

[dennis a feary]

Many Thanks ALAN. I will contact Vegaskip & see what he thinks / will do !!

Sadsac

[dennis a feary]

ALAN - little more `can you do' ?? (Oh Dear I hear you cry - not again).
To awful me the ELFIN (as written) in the top box looks a `little tight / squeezed' - is it possible you could make it E L F I N - if you see what I mean !! Then ELFIN would `stand out' a little more.

Awful Sadsac

[joseph bonnici]

Dennis you got a point about the squeezed name, but when a name is too short you ll have a problem, you could nt leave too much space between a letter and another, you have to change the style of letters , my best option is the copperplate gothic style , but that s my opinion, its up to Alan to decide (hope im not interfering) thanks ,Joseph

[joseph bonnici]

Tomparry i would like you to continue sending all the listed badges on Stopford s cd , very interesting ,thanks ,Joseph

[tomparry]

Tom, the list is perfect. I would really appreciate the rest, thanks for the obvious time consuming task you're doing on everyone's behalf.

Regards
Alan
Alan
Here is the Stopford CD 'B' Badges
tomparry

[nogrub]

Mike.
Some of the badges taken yesterday,they are not all badges or memorials,but may be of interest.
Regards
Harry

[alanbenn]

ALAN - little more `can you do' ?? (Oh Dear I hear you cry - not again).
To awful me the ELFIN (as written) in the top box looks a `little tight / squeezed' - is it possible you could make it E L F I N - if you see what I mean !! Then ELFIN would `stand out' a little more.

Awful Sadsac



AWFUL, here's the Elfin badge with amended lettering, there is no fixed rule regarding the letters, the initial badge was using the lettering that I prefer. Hope this is better for you.

Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Todays badges all revolve around one ship name.....Hms Tactician.

The design was adopted by the Royal Naval Tactical School, originally the design was for the ww1 destroyer Hms Tactician, the motto remained the same.

When the submarine Tactician was built a new badge design was created with a single chess piece, again the motto remained the same.

The badge with the chess board in the shield-shape took more than 6 hours to recreate being so complex a drawing............hope the effort is worth it.

Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Alan
Here is the Stopford CD 'B' Badges
tomparry


Tom, thanks for the 2nd list, the only badges missing from the letter A are the 2 admiralty board badges and Hms Agrippa.

If you could either post them or email them to me and I'll post them when I've updated them it would be most appreciated.

Regards
Alan

[mik43]

Well done Alan, looks great!!

Mik

[mik43]

Mikey

What with all that has followed the answer to this one seems to have been overlooked?? Like DerekW I have been wondering how you managed to copy from the CD!!! Answer - please!!!

Mik

[nogrub]

If you have not had the answer to the question on how to copy from the CD let me know by PM.
Harry

[AD28]

I really like the RN's Ships Crests. They are better than most from USN/USCG. Not sure if these are of any interest, but they are from 2 of my ships.
Tim P

[nogrub]

I really like the RN's Ships Crests. They are better than most from USN/USCG. Not sure if these are of any interest, but they are from 2 of my ships.
Tim P
Tim P.
Thank you for the badges,can you repost them larger.
Harry

[Tom Grant]

Greetings Alan

I have come across this Badge, (what you see is what i have ) it could be SANCTON or SANDTON not sure any help would be appreciated,

Regards
Aye Tom

[AD28]

Hi Harry,
Sorry about. These may be better. Actually, I found another one of my ships crests. I couldn't find a larger one of Eagle's though.
Tim

[alanbenn]

Tom, interesting badge, the name box looks to have been put together using different sized letters, unless it's just the photo angle.

The badge itself isn't familiar, neither is the name.

I'll check through badges to see if it resembles any there, my first impression was it could have been a hospital ship badge, but the castle bit put me off that idea.

I'll get back to you if I spot anything.

Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Tim (AD28)

Thanks for posting those badges, I really like the 'Storis' badge, looks the part, the 2nd badge is a bit of mixed bag, the 2 men spoil it for me, they take away the traditional look. Otherwise it also looks a nice badge.

Would love to see more of them if you have any......perhaps a bit larger in size if the image allows without losing any clarity.

Regards
Alan

[Mikey]

Todays badges all revolve around one ship name.....Hms Tactician.

The design was adopted by the Royal Naval Tactical School, originally the design was for the ww1 destroyer Hms Tactician, the motto remained the same.


Regards
Alan

Hi Alan, This was the badge the ww1 destroyer used (unofficial)

[Mikey]

Mikey

What with all that has followed the answer to this one seems to have been overlooked?? Like DerekW I have been wondering how you managed to copy from the CD!!! Answer - please!!!

Mik

Hi A friend overseas did it and sent me a disc with them all on

[dennis a feary]

ALAN, Awful me again - with a further request re ELFIN !!
Could you possibly change the colour of the word ELFIN from the yellow posted to an `orangy-red' or `reddy-orange' ??
I post here a pic of ELFIN alonside EXETER at `Sail Amsterdam' in 2000. You can see the colour of the name ELFIN on her stern - apparently this was the colour used during WW2 - even tho her name was then NETTLE !!!
I will then `submit' that design to the crew of ELFIN to see which they prefer.
Just for `interest' I include a pic of the crew of ELFIN with a torpedo supplied by Sadsac - ELFIN was a Torpedo Recovery Vessel.
If ever we meet the 1st beer is on me !!!
And I have a bottle of PUSSER's at home.

AWFUL Sadsac

[joseph bonnici]

Awful i painted the name in orange on a white background, i tried it on black and orange backgrounds but did nt like it, this is an option , Alan got his , Awful its up to you now, Joseph

[joseph bonnici]

re quote; i tried it on black and gold (not orange)background, :D Joseph

[joseph bonnici]

re quote ; i tried it on Black and Gold (not Orange) background :o Joseph

[dennis a feary]

ALAN, JOSEPH, marvellous stuff chaps, most appreciated. Both of the designs have been submitted to Frank the Chief Engineer & President of the Steam Society. We have, apart from ELFIN a Tug Boat (Sleepner) and an Icebreaking vessel (still under restoration). So I may be asking for a badge for them. But I will leave you alone for a while - you have done enough for now, although I am quite willing to `thrash a willing horse' (Matelot).
After all, one volunteer is worth 10 pressed men !!!

Sadsac

[alanbenn]

Dennis, you get more awful by the minute:D

here's the badge with red/orange lettering...at a larger size too!


Regards
Alan

[joseph bonnici]

Dennis hope you come with a final decision, ive got about 5 different badges of the Elfin , all credit to Alan , ive just made a small suggestion, i could nt design a badge by myself (poor me ):) Joseph

[alanbenn]

Joseph, I think you under estimate your talents my friend.

With your artistic background you can do it, it's just a matter of getting used to the computer programme you are using instead of paint brushes like you used to.

You know you can always email me for any tips, I only get mine the way they are through trial and error, not because of any special talent.

Regards
Alan

[ltotenby]

Alan - Some Trial, Some Error - Some TALENT.... George..

[Dreadnought]

Hi Alan,I agree most are,even the blason on this one says proper,but it is the Southampton coat of arms (without the fishing rod) and many versions are plain roses
Hi Mikey,

Was following the posts regarding roses, and then seeing the Southampton coats of arms, thought this might be of interest from Gale & Poldens "Official Crests of the Royal Navy" (1900 ish).

Clive

[Dreadnought]

I know there was a lot of posts awhile back regarding HMS Hindustan and I expect you might all have enough of her. However .... looking through the Gale & Ponden "Official Crests of the Royal Navy", as I was putting it away, I came accross this crest, relating to the Battleship HMS Hindustan.

She was an 18-gun twin-screw battleship, launched at Clydebank in 1903. She is of 16,350 tons, 18,500 horse-power, and 19 knots speed. Her length, beam, and draught were 425ft., 78ft., and 27ft. She was part of the Grand Fleet from 1914 until 1918, and then became a depot ship for the ships involved with the Zeebrugge and Ostend raids.

She predates the sloop that was previously mentioned in the thread. The sloop was in fact built at Swan Hunter in 1930, and transferred to Pakistan Navy in 1948 as Karsaz.

Coincidentally, my Grandfather served on her from 1909 to 1912 as a Petty Officer Gunner, and during his period of service Midshipman H.R.H. the Prince of Wales served with him from August 1st, 1911, to October 26th, 1911.

The quailty of the attached PC isn't great, but I have included it to show the crest in use.

Clive

[alanbenn]

Harry is having problems uploading photo's at present and so he has asked me to post these latest photo's of the memorial windows until he can sort out what's gone wrong with his computer.


Regards
Alan

[dennis a feary]

Thanks for the red/orange letters Alan, all have been submitted.
And here's another request - have you got the sane / better design of the RN Submarine Service Dolphin's ?? Will post what I have.

Sadsac

[Tom Grant]

Greetings Sadsac

I hope this helps, i waited all day to see if you would get a better badge ,so this is what i have

Regards
Aye Tom

[Mikey]

Harry is having problems uploading photo's at present and so he has asked me to post these latest photo's of the memorial windows until he can sort out what's gone wrong with his computer.


Regards
Alan

Thanks Alan/Harry for the memorial windows photos

[alanbenn]

Todays badge has a famous name but wasn't the official badge for the battleship.

Hms Temeraire.......The unofficial badge for the 'old' training ship was adopted by the Upper Yardman School from 1956-1960, then the RN School of Physical Training took the name in 1971.

One of my top favourite badges and like most of the good ones is associated with a less glamourous shorebase, rather than one of the big ships.

Regards
Alan

[tomparry]

Stopford CD - Badges 'C'.

tomparry

[alanbenn]

Tom, thanks for the list for 'C' badges.

Only ones Different so far are.....

Admiralty board badges...oval and round

Agrippa

Bristol division RNVR

can you help with any of those?

Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Dennis, I've tried to create the submariners dolphins for you, not one of my best I'm afraid but been a bit short on time and it took a while to do.

Hope it's ok for you.

Regards
Alan

[Mikey]

Alan, Addendum that came with the 2 books

[dennis a feary]

Here are four more of `my' badges. Suppose all have got - BUT

Sadsac

[Scratcher]

Alan/Dennis, Would this example serve your purpose any better.Please bear in mind that the area beneath the crown and between the Dolphins foreheads is blue,no black as in this example.Dont know how that came about.Hope it helps.It is a copy of my own Dolphins.

Peter.

[Dreadnought]

Todays badge has a famous name but wasn't the official badge for the battleship.

Hms Temeraire.......The unofficial badge for the 'old' training ship was adopted by the Upper Yardman School from 1956-1960, then the RN School of Physical Training took the name in 1971.

One of my top favourite badges and like most of the good ones is associated with a less glamourous shorebase, rather than one of the big ships.

Regards
Alan

Hi Alan,

One of your top favourite badges, and one of my top favourite ships, the name, in my view, evoking all that is great in British naval heritage and tradition. For the life of me, I don’t why this immortal name is not borne by a fighting ship today. The crest is so much better in the round rather than the diamond of the shore establishment.

The first Temeraire was a third rate 74 gunner that was captured from the French at the Battle of Lagos in 1759, and sold in 1784.

The second Temeraire was the famous 98 gun second rate ship of the line which followed HMS Victory into the Battle of Trafalgar in 1805. Launched at Chatham in 1798. The name carried on in the British custom of naming new ships from old prizes. She played a major role at Trafalgar, helping to force the surrender of the French ship Redoutable and the capture of Forgeux, but in doing so was badly damaged. She is famous as the subject of two paintings by J. M. W. Turner, one showing her at the Battle of Trafalgar in 1805, the other showing her being towed to the breaker's yard in 1838.

The third Temeraire, built in 1876.was the Royal Navy's first Barbette ironclad, and saw action at Alexandria in 1882, when she silenced Fort Mex and helped attack Fort Pharos and Fort Moncrieff. One of her landing parties also saw action at Tel-el-Kebir and at Khartoum.She was paid off in 1901, and became a depot ship in 1902. In 1904 she was renamed Indus II and became a training ship. In 1915, she was renamed again as the Akbar and became a reformatory ship. She was finally sold off in 1921.

The fourth Temeraire was a first generation Bellerophon Class dreadnought (1906 Battleship Programme) of 18,600 tons built at Devonport Dock, Portsmouth. She was completed in May 1909 and became part of the 4th Battle Squadron of the Grand Fleet. She took part in the Battle of Jutland in 1916 under the command of Captain E.V. Underhill. She fired 54 12 inch shells and got through the battle undamaged. In October 1918 she was transferred to the East Mediterranean Squadron under the overall command of Vice Admiral Gough-Calthrope. After the war she served as a sea going cadet training ship until being sold for scrap in 1921.

There was to be a fifth Temeraire, an Lion Class Battleship of 42,500 tons. Her keel was laid at Cammel Laird in 1939, but cancelled in 1944.

Just for interest I attach the crest of Temeraire, from Gale & Polden ’Official Crests of the Royal Navy’, for the last ship to carry her name, along with a postcard from my personal collection. I notice the pennant is different, plain blue instead of the English type pennant?

Clive

[tomparry]

Tom, thanks for the list for 'C' badges.

Only ones Different so far are.....

Admiralty board badges...oval and round

Agrippa

Bristol division RNVR

can you help with any of those?

Regards
Alan
Alan
Attached are the badges that you wanted. Also on the pdf file is the file system showing how to find the image on Stopfords CD.
tomparry

[joseph bonnici]

Tom have you got the ALMONDBANK RNAY badge, could nt find it ,thanks Joseph (you re doing a good job)

[Tom Grant]

Tom have you got the ALMONDBANK RNAY badge, could nt find it ,thanks Joseph (you re doing a good job)

Greetings Joseph

Almondbank as requested

Regards
Aye Tom

[astraltrader]

Brilliant work with your ABC files Tom!!

[alanbenn]

Tom, thanks a million for the badges that were missing, I'll check the 'C' list asap and get back to you if any are missing.

I know how time consuming it is so I can't thank you enough for what you are doing.

Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Mikey, thanks for the addendum pages, I know I already have some of those, I'll see what I can do with the others.

If I need to I hope you don't mind me getting back to you for a larger scan of Individual badges.

Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Hi Alan,

One of your top favourite badges, and one of my top favourite ships, the name, in my view, evoking all that is great in British naval heritage and tradition. For the life of me, I don’t why this immortal name is not borne by a fighting ship today. The crest is so much better in the round rather than the diamond of the shore establishment.




Clive, I agree with your sentiments, why there hasn't been another modern ship named Temeraire.

I wasn't aware that the badge was in a diamond shape, have you seen a copy of this badge?

If there was such a badge I'll have to update that into my collection.

Regards
Alan

[Mikey]

Mikey, thanks for the addendum pages, I know I already have some of those, I'll see what I can do with the others.

If I need to I hope you don't mind me getting back to you for a larger scan of Individual badges.

Regards
Alan
Alan, I can do that

[dennis a feary]

ALAN, JOSEPH - To be really awfully awful and having left you alone for a while I now return to `take you to task' !!
The Preservation Society of ELFIN also has two other vessels - and I would like badges made up for them SO ;
SCHEELENKUHLEN - as it came from a lighthouse on an Island north of Germany then name (its a bit large ??) with a L/H in the middle bit with a light blue `sky'.
JACOB LANGEBERG - this is an Ice-breaker - so for JACOB = ladder (as in Bible, Jacobs ladder) then Langeberg, Lange (Long) - Berg (Mountain, Hill ??)
SO we have a long ladder surmounted on / crossing a mountain (with snow ??).
Will post a pic of the actual Light-house later.
If you can think of any better design please feel free `to put your oar in' !!!

Take your time - no rush, anytime in the 20 seconds will do nicely !!

Sadsac

[joseph bonnici]

Tom thanks for the almondbank badges .Joseph

[tomparry]

Stopford's CD
Badges 'D' & 'E'

tomparry

[alanbenn]

Tom, many thanks for the latest lists, please keep them coming.

Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Sadsac, the 2 badges you mention will obviously have to be different to the Elfin type badge frame as they are not RN vessels.

I'm a bit confused with your description of the 1st one, so if you could elaborate a bit more.

Then I can try and make the appropriate design.


Regards
Alan

[dennis a feary]

ALAN, thanks for reply. The shape of badge - not being RN ! They are both German (I think) so shape ??? I do have a `plaster' base badge unpainted etc, so that is the only base I could use. Whilst on `badge bases' - do you know (or can you) anyone who can make a `plug' of my badge base and then make up some badges from it ???
As to the design of the 1st one - SCHEELENKUHLEN - this comes from the Island of S/Kuhlen which is off the coast north of Cuxhaven. The design would ? include the Lighthouse on the Island. I said of the `box being small - would it take a name in the length of SCHEELENKUHLEN.
See here a picture of said L/H.
I would prefer the `round' one, buy I bow to your knowledge and what ever you can come up with will be fine for me & I will put it to the Steam Society to say yea or nay. Be intereing to see what you come up with as a `German' type badge. There MAY be a little difficulty in that the Dutch do not quite like anything German !! Understandable I suppose !!
Thanks for even thinking of helping
Sadsac

[tomparry]

Stopfords CD - Admiralty Badges

'F' Badges

On a previous post I mentioned a pdf file. That was incorrect. It was a jpg file showing how to access the images on the CD.

Was anybody able to access them using that information?

tomparry

[joseph bonnici]

Mikey there were 6 Admiralty advisors on heraldy including the present one Mr Thomas Woodcock , all i want to know is the duration they served as such. eg Charles john Ffoulkes served from 1918 to 1936 thanks Joseph

[Mikey]

Mikey there were 6 Admiralty advisors on heraldy including the present one Mr Thomas Woodcock , all i want to know is the duration they served as such. eg Charles john Ffoulkes served from 1918 to 1936 thanks Joseph

Joseph,A list from the book i have. Mikey

[Tom Grant]

Greetings Alan

Bit more information about the badge i have once posted on the forum asking for help, well i have been able to gather more bits ,so hoping our members can add more information i have posted it again,

Regards
Aye Tom

[Dreadnought]

Clive, I agree with your sentiments, why there hasn't been another modern ship named Temeraire.

I wasn't aware that the badge was in a diamond shape, have you seen a copy of this badge?

If there was such a badge I'll have to update that into my collection.

Regards
Alan
Hi Alan,
As you correctly pointed out, the name has passed to the PT training establishment and if you go on the Royal Navy website to the Temeraire page, you will see the crest in a diamond. I thought that was how it worked ... that shore training ships were in a diamond, the round one you showed being right for a capital ship?

Did you have any comment about the pennant change I pointed out? In fact, where do Gale & Poldens "official" crests fit into the scheme of things?

Clive

[dennis a feary]

ALAN, JOSEPH, to save me trolling thro all 88 pages posted on badges, could you post up a badge of HMS EXETER please ?? I posted a photo in the Forum (where ??) of ELFIN alongside EXETER and I believe the crew of ELFIN would like a badge of X to see. Thats when / if you get time - after of course you have attended to my other requests !!
Must get priorities in order - A What !!!
Just so that I am not asking you to do all this for nothing please see the accompanying pic - yours is the last one on the right at the bottom of pic - the rest are mine !!!!!!

Sadsac

[joseph bonnici]

Dennis this badge is one of Alans, Joseph

[joseph bonnici]

MIKEY thanks for your information, ill make a copy and file it alongside the the badges list, Joseph

[nogrub]

Tim.
Sorry for the delay in answering your post, I had a few problems, but back to normal again, after a great deal of team work with Kc and Terry.
Thank you very much for your badges the are brilliant.
Regards
Harry

[alanbenn]

Did you have any comment about the pennant change I pointed out? In fact, where do Gale & Poldens "official" crests fit into the scheme of things?

Clive


Clive, just had a look at the Temeraire badge on the RN website, as you say in a diamond shape. And yes you are right all shore bases are in Diamond shapes at present.

The origins of the 'Gale & Polden' cards I'm not sure, someone will know, they depict alot of the badges prior to 'Official' status. And many that were official, these cards were very collectable in their day, circa 1920-30

The Pennant I assume was changed to the Red/white naval flag when the pattern was redrawn and submitted to the board. Certainly the description for the round badge clearly states the colour of the pennant as white, charged with a cross throughout red.

Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Dennis, it took a while for me to sort something out regarding your other 2 badges.

Trying to stay with a Dutch feel about them, my 1st attempt was adapting the Dutch Royal Family crest, however I wasn't too sure if that was too elaborate.

So I tried to simlify the badges and kept a standard shield-shape (as in the royal crest) and added the Dutch Royal crown above the name box.

So here's the badge's for your persusal.....if there are any small changes you want done I'll see what I can do, anything more I'm afraid will have to wait as I have other work backing up and need to sort that first.

Regards
Alan

[Dreadnought]

Clive, just had a look at the Temeraire badge on the RN website, as you say in a diamond shape. And yes you are right all shore bases are in Diamond shapes at present.

The origins of the 'Gale & Polden' cards I'm not sure, someone will know, they depict alot of the badges prior to 'Official' status. And many that were official, these cards were very collectable in their day, circa 1920-30

The Pennant I assume was changed to the Red/white naval flag when the pattern was redrawn and submitted to the board. Certainly the description for the round badge clearly states the colour of the pennant as white, charged with a cross throughout red.

Regards
Alan
Thanks for that Alan.

Interestingly enough the images I have are not from the collectible cards. Three or four years ago I bought a copy of The Boys Own Annual (circa 1917), and although in very tatty condition, inside there was triple foldout of Gale & Polden's "Official Crests of the Royal Navy" which has survived pretty good condition. I attach the middle section for your interest (reduced to keep file size down). There is an accompanying article inside the magazine describing some of the crests and history, specifically Lion, Warrior, Vanguard and a few others. It was from this foldout that I extracted Hindustan and Terneraire shown in my previous threads. Some of the crest designs are quite different from the later approved versions, many are extremely similar. I wonder how far back these versions of the crests go back?

There are 90 crests in total, if you want any of them at any time, just let me know and I will do an individual high res. scan.

Clive

[nogrub]

Mikey.
I'm now up and running on the forum.
Some more photos from the St Ceorges Centre.
Regards
Harry

[alanbenn]

Clive, the 'gale & polden' cards are the fore-runners to the stopford books I suppose.

The 'official' badges as we know them today were 1st put into place around 1917. Obviously many designs were based on the badges already in use for some of the ships, these were official designs at the time for each individual ship, but not in a uniform way that was put into practice by ffoulkes.

I have seen several full collections of the cards for sale on ebay, don't know how many there were in total.

You can see on many of the designs that they have only been altered slightly, some are completely different, but then reading the descriptions gives a good insight into their way of thinking when they were designing the badges.

The good thing about the thread since it 1st started is that more and more info comes to light.....and as a result more badges, both official and unofficial.

I'm sure in time it will be the most definative ships badges reference available on the internet thanks to everyone's input so far and hopefully it will continue.
Look at how many badges have been unearthed just in the last few months.

Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Greetings Alan

Bit more information about the badge i have once posted on the forum asking for help, well i have been able to gather more bits ,so hoping our members can add more information i have posted it again,

Regards
Aye Tom


Tom, apologies I haven't been ignoring you, had so much to do.

The badge is very interesting, I must admit I have no clue as to what it is for other than the obvious, submarines and some sort of Underwater section. Perhaps the submariners on the forum can throw some light on the lettering.

Regards
Alan

[Dreadnought]

Hi Alan,

You may already have this info, but I send it anyway.

Clive

[tomparry]

TP Stopford's CD - Admiralty Badges
'G' Badges Index
tomparry

[Dreadnought]

Greetings Alan

Bit more information about the badge i have once posted on the forum asking for help, well i have been able to gather more bits ,so hoping our members can add more information i have posted it again,

Regards
Aye Tom
Hi Tom,

My little bit of input ... RNAD Ernesettle, one of the Royal Naval Armanent Depots near Pymouth, and I reckon it stored depth charges and torpedoes historically, and later guided missiles - an 'Integrated Weapons Complex' (IWC) ... think it's closed now, but not sure.. All a bit secret apparently.

Non nascondiglio means 'no hiding place', which could kink in to the depth charge thing? There again. I could be way off beam ..!!

Clive

[nogrub]

Mikey.
Some more photos Of St Georges Centre.
Regards
Harry

[tomparry]

TP Stopford's CD Admiralty Badges
'H' Badge Index

tomparry

[tomparry]

TP Stopford's Admiralty Badges CD
'H' Badges Index

tomparry

[mik43]

Hi Alan

Those designs you have done for Dennis are brilliant - well done

Mik

[dennis a feary]

MIK, I heartly endorse your comments ; Brilliant, brilliant indeed - so good in fact that I have requested more from them.
Serves then right for being so good / brilliant !!!!!!!
But they got a marvellous prize for their efforts !!

Sadsac

[alanbenn]

Dennis, There have been a few posts over the last few hours so in case you missed them go to post #2165 for the badges you asked for...


Regards
Alan

[Mikey]

Mikey.
Some more photos Of St Georges Centre.
Regards
Harry

Many many thanks Harry,pics are beatiful and clear and ones i have not seen.
Mikey

[dennis a feary]

Alan, have been to 2165 - do not understand what iy is to do with !!
Do you mean 2166 ?? And what answer to what question am I looking for ??
That will puzzle you - it does Me !!

Sadsac

[tomparry]

TP Stopford's Admiralty Badges
'I' ; 'J' ; 'K' Badge Indexes.

Sorry for the double take on 'H' Index posting. Had a battle of wits with the computer & the computer won.

tomparry

[nogrub]

Mikey.
Some more Photos. in the St Georges Centre.
Regards
Harry

[alanbenn]

Alan, have been to 2165 - do not understand what iy is to do with !!
Do you mean 2166 ?? And what answer to what question am I looking for ??
That will puzzle you - it does Me !!

Sadsac



Dennis, my apologies I gave you the wrong post number, I was referring to the badges you requested re: Jacob langeberg, scheelenkuhlen.

If you missed them......look at post #2195


Regards
Alan

[mik43]

Hi Clive

For your info RNAD Ernesettle is still there, for the moment, but for how much longer I wouldn't like to say. Of course it is no longer called 'RNAD' but something else these days, was 'Defence Munitions' but I believe even that has been changed!!!

Mik

[tomparry]

TP Stopford's CD Admiralty Badges
'L' Badges Index

tomparry

[dennis a feary]

ALAM, many, many thanks for that. They all look fine to me. The first, as you said look a little`busy'. I will submit to the Dutchies all of them & see what they think. I will now leave you alone, so as to be able to do some for yourself / others.

Ta Ta & Dank UWell Sadsac

[nogrub]

Mikey.
More photos from St Georges, some have been duplicated, as the results were disappointing.
Regards
Harry

[Tom Grant]

Hi Clive

For your info RNAD Ernesettle is still there, for the moment, but for how much longer I wouldn't like to say. Of course it is no longer called 'RNAD' but something else these days, was 'Defence Munitions' but I believe even that has been changed!!!

Mik

Greetings Mik

as you seem to know about Ernesettle any chance you have a contact who may know something about the badge and the snake,

Regards
Aye Tom

[Mikey]

Mikey.
More photos from St Georges, some have been duplicated, as the results were disappointing.
Regards
Harry
Thanks again Harry,much appreciated.
Mikey

[alanbenn]

Does anyone have or know of the earlier badge for Hms Titania 1919?


Described as........Green, a female head winged gold rising from a flower silver.

It's an official badge according to stopfords book, but no image of it, only the later 1927 badge.

Regards
Alan

[nogrub]

Mikey.
Some more photos of small windows Memorials and plaques.
Regards
Harry

[alanbenn]

Almost one year ago to the day Gerry posted a leaflet (post #135) regarding the badge of Hms Emerald, although not the official badge as in Stopfords book, the ship continued to use the original badge throughout her service instead of the official one.

The photographic evidence illustrated it clearly.

I have finally managed to recreate the original badge with designs from 6 other badges and put them altogether to produce what I hope is a good version of it.......It took approx 14 hours to complete.

Your comments would again be appreciated so I can then add it to the collection.

Regards
Alan

[tomparry]

Does anyone have or know of the earlier badge for Hms Titania 1919?


Described as........Green, a female head winged gold rising from a flower silver.

It's an official badge according to stopfords book, but no image of it, only the later 1927 badge.

Regards
Alan
Alan
HMS Titania Badge from Stopford's CD

tomparry

[joseph bonnici]

Alan no wonder it took that long to complete , its very complicated, especially with those small bells, verdict= passed Joseph

[Doc]

Looks good Alan, far more accomplished than anything I could do.

The 'motto' which appears underneath - does that translate as 'without hairy top lip'?:p

[tomparry]

TP Stopford's CD Admiralty Badges
'M' Badges Index

tomparry

[SCRG1970]

Alan

Excellent work on the Emerald badge. I will email it to my original contact who provided me with all the info on his old ship.

Regards

Gerry

[mik43]

Tom

Sorry I can't help you there as it is some years since I last saw/spoke to anyone at Ernesettle and I only had minimal contact then when I wa still working!!

Alan, another great piece of artwork, just as good as the 'Dutch' ones, or in fact better for the reasons that Joseph stated - ie fiddly with it!!

Mik

[tomparry]

TP Stopford's CD Admiralty Badges
'N' & 'O' Badge Indexes

tomparry

[alanbenn]

Alan
HMS Titania Badge from Stopford's CD





Tom, already got that badge. It's not the one I was referring to, there was an earlier badge than that one, according to the book, as described in my earlier post.


Regards
Alan

[Scratcher]

Alan,reference Emerald badge I think its spot on,certainly worth 14 hrs work.Well Done .

Peter.

[Tom Grant]

Tom, already got that badge. It's not the one I was referring to, there was an earlier badge than that one, according to the book, as described in my earlier post.


Regards
Alan

Greetings Alan

I am waiting in the wings, If i have a description i create the badge from what i have , and i have my own version of the "Titania" badge you are talking about but i was hoping you would come up with your version and if better than mine i would have replaced it for mine , Sorry i am not at home at the moment but as soon as i get back i will post what i have,

Regards
Aye Tom

[nogrub]

Mikey.
Some more photos by the way I have quite a bit of information on the Bulwark and Princess Irene, which I can dig up and post if anyone wants it, on a different thread if I can remember how to start a new thread?
Regards
Harry

[Tom Grant]

Greetings Harry

Yer i would be interested in anything about Princess Irene, If available,

Thanks

Regards
Aye Tom

[Mikey]

Mikey.
Some more photos by the way I have quite a bit of information on the Bulwark and Princess Irene, which I can dig up and post if anyone wants it, on a different thread if I can remember how to start a new thread?
Regards
Harry

Thanks again Harry.Any info on Bulwark and Princess Irene would be great
Mikey

[tomparry]

TP Stopford's Admiralty Badges
'P' & 'Q' Badge Indexes

tomparry

[nogrub]

Mikey and Tom.
I'm scanning and tidying the articles on Princess Irene and Bulwark, so I shall be posting them soon, I shall let you know what thread they are on as soon as I find out.
In the mean time another group of photos
Regards
Harry

[Scratcher]

Harry,I am forgetting my manners,thank you for the lengths that you have gone to to get the images to us.

[tomparry]

TP Stopford's Admiralty Badges
'R' Badges Index

tomparry

[dennis a feary]

Joseph, thanks for posting on the EXETER badge. Great stuff.
And thanks to Alan for having posted it in the first place.
Alan many thanks for the `Dutch' badges, will put them to my ELFIN crew.
Sorry for delay in reply - been much caught up with FLAGS.
Now been put on to a Flags Thread. And thanks for that Alan.
Sadsac

[nogrub]

Mikey Peter.
Another group of Photos. Please note that the 3rd Plaque has not been officially unveiled yet.
Regards
Harry

[Mikey]

Mikey Peter.
Another group of Photos. Please note that the 3rd Plaque has not been officially unveiled yet.
Regards
Harry

Thank you Harry,
Mikey