SHIPS/BADGES - CRESTS etc

[Stokers Son]

Hi Ed,
No problems it is a real bummer when things start to go wrong. Good to see you are almost complete.
Regards
John

[Tom Grant]

greetings all

i guess my post 6989, has not gathered any responce, strange to see badges that i can not find out anything about, the badge showing the owl , could belong to a branch of the FAA with a remit to keep the airfields clear of birds, HMS RECORDER i can find nothing about this badge/ship, i have once asked before about the the badge showing the swan, any help would be realy great
best regards Tom

[jaymeejoy]

greetings all

i guess my post 6989, has not gathered any responce, strange to see badges that i can not find out anything about, the badge showing the owl , could belong to a branch of the FAA with a remit to keep the airfields clear of birds, HMS RECORDER i can find nothing about this badge/ship, i have once asked before about the the badge showing the swan, any help would be realy great
best regards Tom

The Swan badge is the unofficial for "Radio Control Boats"
Post War, a number of British Power Boat 71ft MTBs were converted to Radio Control Boats and numbered RCB(EL)1 - 5, also known as 8201 - 8205. (note 8202 had been C/T 46 since 1945). Also two 73ft Vosper MTBs (C/T 44 & 45 since 1945) were renumbered CT 8044 & 8045.

[SCRG1970]

greetings all

i guess my post 6989, has not gathered any responce, strange to see badges that i can not find out anything about, the badge showing the owl , could belong to a branch of the FAA with a remit to keep the airfields clear of birds, HMS RECORDER i can find nothing about this badge/ship, i have once asked before about the the badge showing the swan, any help would be realy great
best regards Tom

Tom

RECORDER was a cable ship in service 1942-1946. Seems reasonable that this was the badge for her with the lightning ( communications) under the surface.

Regards

Gerry

[fleetchief]

Thanks Mike

i just could not get a picture of the badge ,but thats good thanks again
regards Tom

Hi Tom,

I took the time off, to produce this for you. I hope this will fulfill your need.

Though it was introduced by a DCI in 1966 there is no Sealed Pattern for it, so I have named it as an "Unofficial".

The b&w line drawing that Mike uploaded was a help, as it was more accurate than the eBay picture.

Cheers,

Ed

[Tom Grant]

Hi Tom,

I took the time off, to produce this for you. I hope this will fulfill your need.

Though it was introduced by a DCI in 1966 there is no Sealed Pattern for it, so I have named it as an "Unofficial".

The b&w line drawing that Mike uploaded was a help, as it was more accurate than the eBay picture.

Cheers,

Ed

Thanks Ed
Good picture
My Brother in Ontario has now got deep snow ( thinking of heading south ),
That Recorder badge said HMS now i have had a picture from Peter saying its a CS RECORDER, any idea's why

Regards Tom

[Atlantic Charter]

Hello
Looking for an Crest for the Atlantic Charter Meeting of 1941,if anyone can develop one it would be given great consideration and be used by the Atlantic Charter Foundation as our Crest,also seeking photo's from crew taken by surrounding ships,by american or British journalist or places where we should look.
First you must view our website to give you an general idea of what we want for a crest,www.atlanticcharter.ca,good luck and thankyou.
Phonse Griffiths
Atlantic Charter Foundation
Newfoundland Canada

[empiretocommonwealth]

Hello
Looking for an Crest for the Atlantic Charter Meeting of 1941,if anyone can develop one it would be given great consideration and be used by the Atlantic Charter Foundation as our Crest,also seeking photo's from crew taken by surrounding ships,by american or British journalist or places where we should look.
First you must view our website to give you an general idea of what we want for a crest,www.atlanticcharter.ca,good luck and thankyou.
Phonse Griffiths
Atlantic Charter Foundation
Newfoundland Canada

Hi Phonse,

Why don't ye adapt the badge ye have on your guest book? (image attached below) ...

But I would be suggesting ye do reciprocal links to both my project (Empire to Commonwealth) as ye have written to me - and say to the World Naval Ships Forum - so it's not a 'one way' thing - let's help each other.

Regards,

+ Anthony

[lodesman]

I have been loaned the moulds below, they have a galvanised backing/edge & appear to be made from some form of cement? They are marked '1968 A.E.B.' I presume they are moulds for metal badges/crests? Also i have the rubber mould for the local Sea Cadet Unit & have been asked to produce a few, any tips on making them please? :)

[Tom Grant]

I have been loaned the moulds below, they have a galvanised backing/edge & appear to be made from some form of cement? They are marked '1968 A.E.B.' I presume they are moulds for metal badges/crests? Also i have the rubber mould for the local Sea Cadet Unit & have been asked to produce a few, any tips on making them please? :)

Greetings

My Records show me that the Badge for the Sea Cadet Unit of Ramsgate and Broadstiars is the same badge as HMS Bulldog, In a circular frame so you may be wrong in making the Badge in the Shield shaped mould, if you know something i'am not aware of please let me know

Regards Tom

[lodesman]

Good evening,The unit crest is in a pentagonal mould Tom, on display in the unit we have the crest from the bridge front of H.M.S Bulldog,survey ship & it's a shield shape (as for the Destroyer i think?) So don't quite know how we ended up with a pentagonal crest for the unit?? Regards, Mark.

[Tom Grant]

Good evening,The unit crest is in a pentagonal mould Tom, on display in the unit we have the crest from the bridge front of H.M.S Bulldog,survey ship & it's a shield shape (as for the Destroyer i think?) So don't quite know how we ended up with a pentagonal crest for the unit?? Regards, Mark.

WOW!!! Thats different, i will alter my records to show the unit badge you have

Regards Tom

[Tom Grant]

WOW!!! Thats different, i will alter my records to show the unit badge you have

Regards Tom

Greetings Mark ,

This is the page from my collection ,i will have the badged along with the unit can you add any more to the write up

Thanks Tom

[Tom Grant]

WOW!!! Thats different, i will alter my records to show the unit badge you have

Regards Tom

Greetings Mark ,

This is the page from my collection ,i will have the badged along with the unit can you add any more to the write up, i have tried to send the page but it will not go , i will send you a PM and you let me have your email address

Thanks Tom

[fleetchief]

Hi All,

Someone posted a rather small image of the new RAN badge for HMAS CHOULES (L100), ex-RFA LARGS BAY (L3006).

Named after Chief Petty Officer Claude Choules - Claude Stanley Choules (3 March 1901 – 5 May 2011) was the last World War I combat veteran, and was the last military witness to the scuttling of the German fleet in Scapa Flow. He was also the last veteran to have served in both world wars, and the last seaman from the First World War. At the time of his death, he was also the third oldest verified military veteran in the world and the oldest known living man in Australia. He was the seventh-oldest living man in the world. Choules became the oldest man born in the United Kingdom following the death of Stanley Lucas on 21 June 2010. Choules died in Perth, Western Australia, at the age of 110.

After modifications to suit Australian operating conditions, HMAS CHOULES is being commissioned this month (Dec 2011).

Here is my version.

Cheers,

Ed

[lodesman]

Thanks Tom ,will keep an eye out for your message :)

[alanbenn]

Ed, the badge for Hmas Choules is quite brilliant, thanks ever so much for reproducing it, hope all is well with you now, regards to all the family.

Alan

[empiretocommonwealth]

Good evening,The unit crest is in a pentagonal mould Tom, on display in the unit we have the crest from the bridge front of H.M.S Bulldog,survey ship & it's a shield shape (as for the Destroyer i think?) So don't quite know how we ended up with a pentagonal crest for the unit?? Regards, Mark.

Hi Mark,

That's a very interesting development .... On my project site I had it down as a shield - so I'd love to see the finished artwork.

Thanks for sharing!

+ Anthony

[empiretocommonwealth]

Hi All,

Someone posted a rather small image of the new RAN badge for HMAS CHOULES (L100), ex-RFA LARGS BAY (L3006).

Named after Chief Petty Officer Claude Choules - Claude Stanley Choules (3 March 1901 – 5 May 2011) was the last World War I combat veteran, and was the last military witness to the scuttling of the German fleet in Scapa Flow. He was also the last veteran to have served in both world wars, and the last seaman from the First World War. At the time of his death, he was also the third oldest verified military veteran in the world and the oldest known living man in Australia. He was the seventh-oldest living man in the world. Choules became the oldest man born in the United Kingdom following the death of Stanley Lucas on 21 June 2010. Choules died in Perth, Western Australia, at the age of 110.

After modifications to suit Australian operating conditions, HMAS CHOULES is being commissioned this month (Dec 2011).

Here is my version.

Cheers,

Ed

Hi Ed,

Very nice artwork there for Choules.

Are ye seeing this conversation about TS Bulldog - Do ye think ye could make it up for me, at all, please?

Thanks,

+ Anthony

[fleetchief]

Ed, the badge for Hmas Choules is quite brilliant, thanks ever so much for reproducing it, hope all is well with you now, regards to all the family.

Alan

Hi Alan,

I think I jumped the gun a bit. She's not due to be commissioned until this coming Friday, Dec 09.

Cheers,

Ed

[lodesman]

Good morning Anthony :) When i (or hope to!) make a crest, i'll post a photo on here (am still after some tips on making them!) I'm at the Unit tonight, & will take a shot of one tonight, i have one in my collection, but as you can see, it has no crown? (the bulldog should be in white) Maybe it was broken off?? Also is a pic of the crest from the bridge front of Bulldog, after i had repainted it (& yep, i know the sails should de gold!):rolleyes: Best regards, Mark.

[empiretocommonwealth]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for showing me the TS Bulldog - I see from the casting mould it should have had the Naval Crown ... I'm hoping my hero Ed creates a complete version for us!

(I keep dropping these unsubtle hints, don't I Ed! :D )

Thanks again :),

+ Anthony

Good morning Anthony :) When i (or hope to!) make a crest, i'll post a photo on here (am still after some tips on making them!) I'm at the Unit tonight, & will take a shot of one tonight, i have one in my collection, but as you can see, it has no crown? (the bulldog should be in white) Maybe it was broken off?? Also is a pic of the crest from the bridge front of Bulldog, after i had repainted it (& yep, i know the sails should de gold!):rolleyes: Best regards, Mark.

[fleetchief]

Hi All,

Correction to my last.

Due to circumstances the commissioning of HMAS CHOULES has been delayed until a week today, Tuesday 13th December, and will take place at Fremantle.

Thanks for that info, John.


Cheers,

Ed

[fleetchief]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for showing me the TS Bulldog - I see from the casting mould it should have had the Naval Crown ... I'm hoping my hero Ed creates a complete version for us!

(I keep dropping these unsubtle hints, don't I Ed! :D )

Thanks again :),

+ Anthony

Anybody would think that I have nothing else to do except produce "specials".

Oh well, here you are, together with the RN badges.

Cheers,

Ed

[empiretocommonwealth]

Anybody would think that I have nothing else to do except produce "specials".

Oh well, here you are, together with the RN badges.

Cheers,

Ed

Ah now don't y'know it's a darlin' and a treasure y'are t'b'sure t'b'sure :) :D :)

Thanks for that one! You're a star so y'are!

I'll go pop that one into the Southern Area (http://empiretocommonwealth.webs.com/ukseacadetsouthern.htm#744025936).

See, I told ye he was a hero, didn't I Mark :)

+ Anthony

[battlestar]

Hi All,
Correction to my last.
Due to circumstances the commissioning of HMAS CHOULES has been delayed until a week today, Tuesday 13th December, and will take place at Fremantle.
Thanks for that info, John.
Cheers,
Ed

NuShip Choules info, and first photo of her in Australia, post 10 and 11.

http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10890

Battlestar

[lodesman]

Hi Anthony, you sure did!;) It looks brilliant! :):) Attached below are 2 pics i took at the unit last nite, regards, Mark.

[lodesman]

The Fort Charlotte crest as promised Anthony (missing some green paint tho!)

[Mike B]

Thanks Mike

i just could not get a picture of the badge ,but thats good thanks again
regards Tom

Hi Tom,
Have investigated further and discovered that the RNSTS badge does indeed have a black anchor but the RNSTS crest has a gold one with white background. furtherm ore it seems that both may have been 'unofficial' in that th experts cannot recall any formal approval being sought for their introduction.
Regards
mike

[empiretocommonwealth]

The Fort Charlotte crest as promised Anthony (missing some green paint tho!)

Hi Mark,

I've written off to the Cadets Organisation in Canada for a location of Fort Charlotte, so when I hear back I'll let ye know straight away.

+ Anthony

[lodesman]

Hi Anthony,
Have just inboxed you with the info i've found out about Fort Charlotte being in the R.F.A. Look forward to hearing what info you find out too,
Regards,
Mark.

[empiretocommonwealth]

Hi Anthony,
Have just inboxed you with the info i've found out about Fort Charlotte being in the R.F.A. Look forward to hearing what info you find out too,
Regards,
Mark.

Hi Mark ...

So, Fort Charlotte is English?? Hmmm, and there was I contacting Canada - because of the map of the Americas in the background!

I don't have any listing from either Alan or Ed about a Fort Charlotte, so I'm guessing it's an unofficial ... however, I'll continue to 'snoop' *cough* :eek: :eek: :eek:

+ Anthony

[SCRG1970]

Hi Mark ...

So, Fort Charlotte is English?? Hmmm, and there was I contacting Canada - because of the map of the Americas in the background!

I don't have any listing from either Alan or Ed about a Fort Charlotte, so I'm guessing it's an unofficial ... however, I'll continue to 'snoop' *cough* :eek: :eek: :eek:

+ Anthony


FORT CHARLOTTE (A236) Fort Class Armmament Storeship.Built Vancouver 1944. RFA from 1948. Served in Korea. At Christmas Island nuclear Test. UK-Malta run until 1960 transferred to Hong Kong. Sold 1967.

Regards

Gerry

[fleetchief]

Hi Mark ...

So, Fort Charlotte is English?? Hmmm, and there was I contacting Canada - because of the map of the Americas in the background!

I don't have any listing from either Alan or Ed about a Fort Charlotte, so I'm guessing it's an unofficial ... however, I'll continue to 'snoop' *cough* :eek: :eek: :eek:

+ Anthony

This may help Anthony, I think you can ignore 1, 2 & 5 <grin>

Fort Charlotte may refer to:


Fort Charlotte, Shetland
Fort Charlotte, Tortola
Fort Charlotte (Mobile) - The British name of Fort Conde in Mobile, Alabama, reconstructed at 4/5 scale of the French Fort Condé at the site, also known as Fort Carlota (under Spanish rule)
Fort Charlotte (South Carolina), a British colonial fort near Mount Carmel, South Carolina
Fort Charlotte, Nassau, Bahamas
Fort Charlotte, Georges Island in Halifax Harbour, Nova Scotia
Fort Charlotte, Minnesota was a North West Company post at Grand Portage

Each Fort Charlotte, coincidentally, is named after Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz, the wife of King George III.

Cheers,

Ed

[empiretocommonwealth]

Thanks Gerry and Ed for your help!

It is REALLY appreciated!

Thanks a million,

+ Anthony

[fleetchief]

Thanks Gerry and Ed for your help!

It is REALLY appreciated!

Thanks a million,

+ Anthony

And here the badge.

Ed

[empiretocommonwealth]

And here the badge.

Ed

Hi Ed,

Thanks for that one - I'm going to pop it into the RFA section.

Come on ... fess up .. who's my little hero :) :) :)

Thank you again my friend, It's BRILLIANT!

+ Anthony

[lodesman]

Fantastic artwork for the Fort Charlotte crest! :) & thanks for the info Gerry :) Anthony,I see the Herne Bay crest is down as a circular one, i'm pretty sure their's is a 4 sided crest, i've contacted the Commanding Officer & will confirm when he gets back to me, regards, Mark.

[lodesman]

Attached, a pic of the badge used by Herne Bay Unit.

[tomparry]

Hi Mark ...

So, Fort Charlotte is English?? Hmmm, and there was I contacting Canada - because of the map of the Americas in the background!

I don't have any listing from either Alan or Ed about a Fort Charlotte, so I'm guessing it's an unofficial ... however, I'll continue to 'snoop' *cough* :eek: :eek: :eek:

+ Anthony

Anthony,
Website for history of RFA Fort Charlotte.
http://www.historicalrfa.org/rfa-fort-charlotte
tomparry

[empiretocommonwealth]

Attached, a pic of the badge used by Herne Bay Unit.

Hi Mark,

Thanks for that - I've put the correct version up here (http://empiretocommonwealth.webs.com/ukseacadetsouthern.htm).

Anthony,
Website for history of RFA Fort Charlotte.
http://www.historicalrfa.org/rfa-fort-charlotte
tomparry

Hi Tom,

Thank you for that link ... I think I got side tracked into thinking 'Fort Charlotte' was a Sea Cadet place in Canada ..... I've slept since then! HAHAHAHA (Yup, I ain't gonna change :D ) It was the map of Northern America that threw me off course - honest! :eek: :cool:

Thanks again,

+ ANthony

[fleetchief]

Attached, a pic of the badge used by Herne Bay Unit.

They are using the Triumph 1938 Badge rather than the Triumph 1944 Badge.

Cheers,

Ed

[lodesman]

Hi Ed!
Many thanks for the info, & the once again brilliant artwork! :)
Regards,
Mark.

[eskimosailor]

I have posted two of these crests earlier, and I think everyone has agreed that they are not very good, but just for the record here are the four crests as displayed at the "Ferry Gate" in Gosport. Agreed they are not too clever, but I feel they are worth recording.
I have also attached the Gosport crest as mounted in brass on the two pylons either side of the same 'gate'. As you will note, this is inscribed "God's Port Our Haven" which I understand bears no resemblance to the origin of the name of Gosport, but is in current use by the local council.
Steve

[Mike B]

Hi Tom,

I took the time off, to produce this for you. I hope this will fulfill your need.

Though it was introduced by a DCI in 1966 there is no Sealed Pattern for it, so I have named it as an "Unofficial".

The b&w line drawing that Mike uploaded was a help, as it was more accurate than the eBay picture.

Cheers,

Ed

Ed,
I have consulted with a former member of the RNSTS who is unable to recall an RNSTS 'badge' at all and questions whether there ever was a 'badge'.
The DCI that introduced the new 'badge' in 1966 explained that the 'badge' replaced 4 separate departmental badges - These were, in fact, 'crests'.
I believe therefore that the 'badge' introduced by the DCI was in fact a 'crest'. So, are you able to say where the colour scheme in your 'badge' originated from.
Best regards
Mike B

[Mike B]

Ed,
I have consulted with a former member of the RNSTS who is unable to recall an RNSTS 'badge' at all and questions whether there ever was a 'badge'.
The DCI that introduced the new 'badge' in 1966 explained that the 'badge' replaced 4 separate departmental badges - These were, in fact, 'crests'.
I believe therefore that the 'badge' introduced by the DCI was in fact a 'crest'. So, are you able to say where the colour scheme in your 'badge' originated from.
Best regards
Mike B

Ed,
Sorry forgot to include pic of RNSTS crest.
Best regards
Mike

[Kevin123]

I've been looking out for that one Mike, I worked for them. Kevin.

[Kevin123]

The R.N.S.T.S. badge is on my avatar. Kevin.

[empiretocommonwealth]

OH yes, it's me here, Mr. Confused.com,

The difference between a crest and a badge would be what exactly? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

I know they're ships badges .... :) (Ed, relax, I KNOW! ;) )

Would love a detailed explanation especially as recently we're seeing crests and badges in the same message

And I'm an ejit!:o :( :o so be gentle!

+ Anthony

[Kevin123]

Actually Anthony, my avatar badge might be classed as a flag !!! :D

[empiretocommonwealth]

Actually Anthony, my avatar badge might be classed as a flag !!! :D

HAHAHAHAHAHA , and people wonder why I continually smack m'forehead! :D :eek: :D :cool:

Flag bits ... I understand ... but if it is a flag - do ye have a decent sized picture of it? I could then use that in my project if ye tell me exactly what it is for!

*grabs paracetamol* ;)

+ Anthony

[Mike B]

The R.N.S.T.S. badge is on my avatar. Kevin.

Likewish Kev.
Mike

[Kevin123]

I bought a lapel pin badge, but there is a photo if you google R.N.S.T.S, that's where I downloaded my avatar. You can also buy an R.N.S.T.S tie. Kevin.

[Mike B]

I've been looking out for that one Mike, I worked for them. Kevin.

Likewise Kev.
Mike

[Mike B]

Actually Anthony, my avatar badge might be classed as a flag !!! :D

Kev,
It is,or was, the RNSTS Flag
Mike

[Kevin123]

We changed over from the R.N.S.T.S in about the mid 1990's. We seemed to change names every couple of years after that !! At one time we were P.S.T.O.N. "principal supply and transport officer navy" Kevin.

[Tom Grant]

Greetings

My original request for a picture of the RNSTS badge has put some life back into the forum, and with our new member Mike and his access to the sea cadets
we have now got a badge that i had not seen before ( Fort Charlotte ), so lets hope there are a few more surprises still to come,

Best Regards Tom

[fleetchief]

Ed,
I have consulted with a former member of the RNSTS who is unable to recall an RNSTS 'badge' at all and questions whether there ever was a 'badge'.
The DCI that introduced the new 'badge' in 1966 explained that the 'badge' replaced 4 separate departmental badges - These were, in fact, 'crests'.
I believe therefore that the 'badge' introduced by the DCI was in fact a 'crest'. So, are you able to say where the colour scheme in your 'badge' originated from.
Best regards
Mike B

Hi Mike,

See post 6995 which is a colour picture of a badge for sale on eBay. I'll do up another one to match the colours in your 7029 post.

Ed

[Kevin123]

There's a victualling badge or flag which I remember seeing, which is a red ensign with the yellow R.N.S.T.S crossed anchors on it. Kevin.

[Mike B]

Hi Mike,

See post 6995 which is a colour picture of a badge for sale on eBay. I'll do up another one to match the colours in your 7029 post.

Ed

Hi Ed,
Thanks vm for your efforts. There are still doubts about the validity of the image of the 'badge' in post 6995.
Mike

[Mike B]

We changed over from the R.N.S.T.S in about the mid 1990's. We seemed to change names every couple of years after that !! At one time we were P.S.T.O.N. "principal supply and transport officer navy" Kevin.

Hi Kev,
RNSTS was the title of the organisation; the officer in charge was Director General of Supplies and Transport (Naval) (DGST(N)). Principal Supply and Transport Officers (Naval) (PSTO(N)) were subordinate and in charge of stores and transport in dockyards and other establishments.
Since 1995 there has been much change which involved the RN and RM clothing part of the organisation transferring to Defence Clothing and Textiles Agency (DCTA) which was a tri-service organisation run by the Army. I haven't a clue what the overall organiation looks like now.
Mike

[Kevin123]

Hello Mike. Just before I had to retire I think we were called "D logs" or Defence logistics, that's what we called ourselves anyway. :confused: Kevin.

[jaymeejoy]

I have this badge on the wall at home,painted as it was when i got it.
The plaque reads
"Presented to
Harry Tovery
On his Retirement
from R.N.A.D. Gosport
27-5-83.

[fleetchief]

Hi Mike,

Here's another RNSTS crest version, in the colours of your example and the wall plaque. I made the blue darker to more match the wall plaque! I've included the earlier one posted, after I had re-sized it to be virtually the same shape (i.e. more oval)

Ed

[Stokers Son]

Hi Ed,
Once again another great display of artwork
Regards
John

[Mike B]

Hi Mike,

Here's another RNSTS crest version, in the colours of your example and the wall plaque. I made the blue darker to more match the wall plaque! I've included the earlier one posted, after I had re-sized it to be virtually the same shape (i.e. more oval)

Ed

Stunning work as usual ED.
Mike B

[Mike B]

I have this badge on the wall at home,painted as it was when i got it.
The plaque reads
"Presented to
Harry Tovery
On his Retirement
from R.N.A.D. Gosport
27-5-83.

Thanks, this confirms which version is the crest.
Mike B

[jaymeejoy]

I have been loaned the moulds below, they have a galvanised backing/edge & appear to be made from some form of cement? They are marked '1968 A.E.B.' I presume they are moulds for metal badges/crests? Also i have the rubber mould for the local Sea Cadet Unit & have been asked to produce a few, any tips on making them please? :)

These are a few of the ones i made rubber moulds of,( I use Vinamold,so i can remelt and use again)and cast in plaster.
I am now starting to repaint them all,and put on uniform backings.
Only 298 to go.

[empiretocommonwealth]

Hey Jaymeejoy,

Ye didn't mention that Del will make ye clear y'mess up after ye! :D :) :D :)

Some seriously nice work there my friend,

+ Anthony

[fyrbird]

Is this any good to you Anthony? It is the gun tampion from H.M.A.S. Australia

[empiretocommonwealth]

Is this any good to you Anthony? It is the gun tampion from H.M.A.S. Australia


Hi Fyrbird,

Oh yyyyeeah! :) :) :) :) :) Thank you! I've never actually seen it before, thanks a million!

+ Anthony

[jaymeejoy]

Hey Jaymeejoy,

Ye didn't mention that Del will make ye clear y'mess up after ye! :D :) :D :)

Some seriously nice work there my friend,

+ Anthony

Thanks Anthony,
I have to clean up myself,i tried to con Del to do it,but she won't have it.
Still getting used to the Jigsaw and Router to make the backings,but getting there.
Will give till after Xmas,and if no more shakes will put them up again,it is a shame to have them all packed away in teachests.
Mike

[Stokers Son]

HMAS Choules life ring
HI Guys,

Minister for Defence, The Honourable Stephen Smith, MP with Daphne Choules-Edinger at the Commissioning Ceremony of HMAS Choules

REgards
John

[Kevin123]

I think this is the old flag for the Royal navy victualling service, it would have been before I joined the MOD. Kevin.

[empiretocommonwealth]

Hi John,

I bet Daphne was a very proud lady!

Thanks for the photo!

+ Anthony

HMAS Choules life ring
HI Guys,

Minister for Defence, The Honourable Stephen Smith, MP with Daphne Choules-Edinger at the Commissioning Ceremony of HMAS Choules

REgards
John

[empiretocommonwealth]

I think this is the old flag for the Royal navy victualling service, it would have been before I joined the MOD. Kevin.

Hi Kevin,

I concur! http://www.fotw.net/flags/gb%5Enavst.html

Thanks for finding that one!

+ Anthony

[Kevin123]

Hello Anthony, I like the look of those old flags, I've bought my dad a tie with the R.N.S.T.S flag on for a christmas present, he's retired from them as well. Kevin.

[empiretocommonwealth]

Hello Anthony, I like the look of those old flags, I've bought my dad a tie with the R.N.S.T.S flag on for a christmas present, he's retired from them as well. Kevin.

Hi Kevin,

I'm the same - like the old ones too.

I'm now in the process of saving up pennies to get Ed's set of DVD & CDs of Ships Badges here (http://edbuscall.webs.com).

That way, I've got game, set and match!

+ Anthony

[Stokers Son]

If anyone is interested here is a copy HMAS Choules badge which will display on board the ship


Regards
John

[jaymeejoy]

A few more i have just repainted and mounted.

[empiretocommonwealth]

If anyone is interested here is a copy HMAS Choules badge which will display on board the ship


Regards
John

Hi John,

Is that the massive badge that goes on the side of the ship?

+ Anthony

[empiretocommonwealth]

A few more i have just repainted and mounted.


Very nice!

As an average, how long does it take for ye to do them?

+ Anthony

[Kevin123]

I was wondering if there was ever a badge or flag for the F.M.R.O. "fleet maintenance and repair organisation" they did all the work on the ships for the R.N. Kevin.

[jaymeejoy]

Very nice!

As an average, how long does it take for ye to do them?

+ Anthony

I normally do 5 or 6 at a time,give them all rough coats (as per pic) then a top coat.
Do the 6 in a couple of days.

[lodesman]

Hi Jaymeejoy, love the crests you've done!:) I've painted quite a few meself! What gold do you use?I use the humbrol metalic gold. regards, Mark.

[jaymeejoy]

Hi Jaymeejoy, love the crests you've done!:) I've painted quite a few meself! What gold do you use?I use the humbrol metalic gold. regards, Mark.

Hi Mark,
I give the base a coat of "Pigmented Sealer" then use Plasti-Kote Metallic Gold.
Will you be putting any of the ones you have done up.
Regards
Mike

[lodesman]

Hi Mike, thanks for the info, will give the plasti-kote gold a try :) I'll take some pics 2moz & post them on here, hope they'll be of an acceptable standard! All the best, Mark:)

[empiretocommonwealth]

I normally do 5 or 6 at a time,give them all rough coats (as per pic) then a top coat.
Do the 6 in a couple of days.

Hi Mike,

So ... that's how ye do them! Nice work.

Did any get damaged in the quakes?

+ Anthony

[jaymeejoy]

Hi Mike,

So ... that's how ye do them! Nice work.

Did any get damaged in the quakes?

+ Anthony

Hi Anthony,
Lost over 20,the pics show a few.
But i always make a copy of the ones i get,just in case anything happens,that way i can replace. Lucky i do.
Mike.

[tomparry]

I was wondering if there was ever a badge or flag for the F.M.R.O. "fleet maintenance and repair organisation" they did all the work on the ships for the R.N. Kevin.

Kevin,
Here's a badge that I found, presumably unofficial.
tomparry

[Kevin123]

Thanks Tomparry, It's funny that when you see a badge, you're sure you've seen it before !! I think F.M.R.O were also known as N.C.G "north corner group" that might just have been the stores section though and were based on middle slip jetty. Kevin.

[empiretocommonwealth]

Hi Anthony,
Lost over 20,the pics show a few.
But i always make a copy of the ones i get,just in case anything happens,that way i can replace. Lucky i do.
Mike.


Hi Mike,

OUCH. Now THAT would have upset me - but hey, with all that happened in Christchurch, it's not as bad as it could have been!

Are these all repaired now?

+ Anthony

[empiretocommonwealth]

Hi Jaymeejoy, love the crests you've done!:) I've painted quite a few meself! What gold do you use?I use the humbrol metalic gold. regards, Mark.

Hi Mark,

Isn't that the same type of paint used in model making? I'd imagine that worked out expensive! Wouldn't a spray have been as good?

+ Anthony

[jaymeejoy]

Hi Mike,

OUCH. Now THAT would have upset me - but hey, with all that happened in Christchurch, it's not as bad as it could have been!

Are these all repaired now?

+ Anthony

Hi Anthony,
These are the last of the broken ones i have to do.
Then i have over 35 others i have got in the last six months that i have to make moulds of,cast and paint.
Keep me going for a while.
Del is the birthday girl today,has hit the big 60.
Mike

[empiretocommonwealth]

Hi Anthony,
These are the last of the broken ones i have to do.
Then i have over 35 others i have got in the last six months that i have to make moulds of,cast and paint.
Keep me going for a while.
Del is the birthday girl today,has hit the big 60.
Mike

Very nice! I like that coat of arms one - HMS Lively ???

Email despatched to Del! :)

+ Anthony

[fleetchief]

Hi Mark,

Isn't that the same type of paint used in model making? I'd imagine that worked out expensive! Wouldn't a spray have been as good?

+ Anthony

I always used Humbrol enamel, but that goes brown & dull after a time (as seen in the Sealed Patterns). So I now use gold leaf. It's not that expensive, especially if you use the artificial gold leaf. When badge is finished, a spray with an Acrylic Sealer. Works wonders. Maybe it will deteriorate in time, but I think it will outlast me.

Cheers,

Ed

p.s. Struggling with a new computer using Windows 7, getting all my software installed. So forum viisits will be intermittent for a bit.

[fyrbird]

hi Anthony, another tampion for you H.M.A.S. Melbourne [cruiser]regards Tony

[fyrbird]

Hi Anthony ,have you got this ,I pinched it from a stamp.cheers Tony

[empiretocommonwealth]

I always used Humbrol enamel, but that goes brown & dull after a time (as seen in the Sealed Patterns). So I now use gold leaf. It's not that expensive, especially if you use the artificial gold leaf. When badge is finished, a spray with an Acrylic Sealer. Works wonders. Maybe it will deteriorate in time, but I think it will outlast me.

Cheers,

Ed

Gold leaf!!! Well, they do use gold leaf books/sheets at Chatsworth in Derbyshire so it would make sense - meant to last years more than paint apparently!

hi Anthony, another tampion for you H.M.A.S. Melbourne [cruiser]regards Tony

Hi Tony,

Thank you that! Much appreciated!

A

Hi Anthony ,have you got this ,I pinched it from a stamp.cheers Tony

I like the word 'pinched' ;) Thanks for finding these for me - keep them coming, could end up making a Tampion page for naval badges in the Project ... hmmm, that's a good idea actually!

Thanks again Tony,

A

[fyrbird]

hi Anthony,There are pages of tampions already within the forum if that is any help to you cheers T

[lodesman]

Hi Anthony, It is the same as the model making paint, but will give Ed's suggestion a go, thanks for the tips Ed:) regards,Mark.

[jaymeejoy]

Hi,
Would anyone have a copy of the badge for HMS Gentian please.
It would be unofficial,i have a small copy but would like bigger.
Thanks.

[Tom Grant]

Greetings

I have looked into my collection for a badge for Gentian, i have nothing ,any chance i can see your small copy

Regards Tom

[Stokers Son]

HI All
HMAS Wallaroo Unofficial badge

Regards
John

[lodesman]

Attached are some of the crests i have painted, I have some on my 'to do' list, Courageous, Kent, Juno, Camperdown & one for 'IRN DUCK' which was made to advertise the soft drink Irn Bru.

[tomparry]

Hi,
Would anyone have a copy of the badge for HMS Gentian please.
It would be unofficial,i have a small copy but would like bigger.
Thanks.

Only Badge I could find to do with HMS Gentian is the following. The story will tell you better.
tomparry

[Tom Grant]

Only Badge I could find to do with HMS Gentian is the following. The story will tell you better.
tomparry

Greetings Tom

That badge is a copy of the admiralty badge given to towns that adopted a warship during warship week , the unoffficial badge would have been a flower, ie, HMS GENTIAN being of the flower class, So we are still looking for a unofficial badge for Gentian,,

Regards Tom

[jaymeejoy]

Attached are some of the crests i have painted, I have some on my 'to do' list, Courageous, Kent, Juno, Camperdown & one for 'IRN DUCK' which was made to advertise the soft drink Irn Bru.

Hi Mark,
They look great,nice and bright.
It is brilliant to see the end product,do you do your own backings or get them in,they look very smart.
Pic of one of the wall at home,with some of them on (Before the quakes,now all in boxes)
Mike

[fleetchief]

Attached are some of the crests i have painted, I have some on my 'to do' list, Courageous, Kent, Juno, Camperdown & one for 'IRN DUCK' which was made to advertise the soft drink Irn Bru.

To be technically correct, the Provider badge should have white sails in the crown; the maple leafs on the rope should be gold. For PROVIDER the name box should be gold with black letters. The RCN badges always use black lettering but the name box background colour varies and is often the colour of the 'field'.

For all post 1940 RN ships the name box should be gold with black lettering; and the sails are gold (though many ships paint them white).

Cheers,

Ed

[empiretocommonwealth]

Hi Guys,

Can I just say, some seriously nice artwork on this page.

Can't wait to see Irn Duck!!! :)

Tom, the badge ye show for HMS Gentian is the Admiralty Badge isn't it? The one that was used on the cover of his books has it in the colours ye use ...

+ Anthony

[jaymeejoy]

Hi Guys,

Can I just say, some seriously nice artwork on this page.

Can't wait to see Irn Duck!!! :)

Tom, the badge ye show for HMS Gentian is the Admiralty Badge isn't it? The one that was used on the cover of his books has it in the colours ye use ...

+ Anthony
Hi Anthony,
My copy of IRN Duck.
Needs a repaint with the good gold.
Mike

[empiretocommonwealth]

Hi Anthony,
My copy of IRN Duck.
Needs a repaint with the good gold.
Mike

Hi Mike,

Complete with the Irn Bru saying "made from girders!" LOVE IT!

+ Anthony

[lodesman]

Thanks for the correct info Ed, much appreciated! :) will rectify it in due course. & Mike, mine was the same, badly painted too, I just have the blue field to do, & the scroll.
regards,Mark.

[lodesman]

Hi Mark,
They look great,nice and bright.
It is brilliant to see the end product,do you do your own backings or get them in,they look very smart.
Pic of one of the wall at home,with some of them on (Before the quakes,now all in boxes)
Mike

Hi Mike, thank you for your comments! I'm glad they look ok! :) Always nice to hear from another set of eyes! I get the timber, & a friend of mine at work cuts it out. How i would love to have your collection!! :)
all the best,Mark.

[Tom Grant]

Hi Anthony,
My copy of IRN Duck.
Needs a repaint with the good gold.
Mike

Greetings Mike

I also have this badge in my collection and would love to hear about the connection to IRN BRU, any information would be greatfuly received,

Regards Tom

[jaymeejoy]

Hi Mike, thank you for your comments! I'm glad they look ok! :) Always nice to hear from another set of eyes! I get the timber, & a friend of mine at work cuts it out. How i would love to have your collection!! :)
all the best,Mark.

Thanks Mark,
Continuation of the wall of the other pic i posted.
Mike

[empiretocommonwealth]

Thanks Mark,
Continuation of the wall of the other pic i posted.
Mike

Yeah .... now I see why Del wants ye to put them somewhere else!!!! ;) :D

+ Anthony

[alanbenn]

Here's another badge I've not seen before so I don't know if it's official or not, currently on sale.

I'm sure Ed can produce a good copy from this if he has time on his hands:)

Regards
Alan

[fleetchief]

Here's another badge I've not seen before so I don't know if it's official or not, currently on sale.

I'm sure Ed can produce a good copy from this if he has time on his hands:)

Regards
Alan

Hi Alan,

It's actually LOCHINVAR's badge, in a Diamond frame.

Cheers,

Ed

[alanbenn]

Cheers Ed, thought it looked familiar:D, excellent job as usual.

Regards
Alan

[MelQuick]

Hi Everyone

The V&W class destroyer HMS Vanoc served in the Royal Navy for many years and she was involved in the sinking of three U-boats in World War II.

Did she not get a badge? Not even an unofficial one???

Mel

[Dave palmer]

The only V & W not to get an official badge, possibly because she spent a long period in reserve.

[MelQuick]

Dave

Many thanks.

Mel

[empiretocommonwealth]

Interesting badges Dave.

Not seen ye for a while, welcome back! :)

+ Anthony

[lodesman]

You're making my <3 pound with that photo Mike! ;) Attached is my Irn Bru crest, which i finished today, as it's not an 'official' crest, i'm guessing the colours are open to artistic licence! (i hope!):D

[Tom Grant]

You're making my <3 pound with that photo Mike! ;) Attached is my Irn Bru crest, which i finished today, as it's not an 'official' crest, i'm guessing the colours are open to artistic licence! (i hope!):D

Greetings Lodesman

Nice badge but in my collection i keep a write up of the Colours , the history ,and the description of the badge, all i have for this badge it was used in a advert for IRN BRU , why, ???, any information would be a great help,
Just my opinion . perhaps the field on your badge could be a lighter blue , and then the uniform would be more destinct
Happy New Year , warm regards

Tom

[Tom Grant]

Greetings Lodesman

This is what i have on that badge, as you can see i have loads of gaps in the write up,

regards Tom

[empiretocommonwealth]

Just as things go through my head ... (no comment Ed!!), I was wondering if MAYBE the duck was meant to be ORANGE ... Iron (rust), Irn Brew (orange) ??

See, I came up with that idea all by m'self so I did! :eek: :D :cool:

+ Anthony

[lodesman]

Hi Tom, a happy new year to you too Sir! :) & thank you for your comments, i agree the field could've been lighter too. Also your info & great artwork too. Attached are some more badges i purchased today, most of which need re-painting in the correct colours, & maybe you have a point Anthony?..................then again!! ;)

[empiretocommonwealth]

Hi Tom, a happy new year to you too Sir! :) & thank you for your comments, i agree the field could've been lighter too. Also your info & great artwork too. Attached are some more badges i purchased today, most of which need re-painting in the correct colours, & maybe you have a point Anthony?..................then again!! ;)

Hey Lodesman,

I like the way y'did the Eagle in the Tri-Service badge!

My question - is when it comes to painting these 'old' colours, who tells us what is the correct one - as I don't think they had pantones in those days .... did they?

+ Anthony

[fleetchief]

Hey Lodesman,

I like the way y'did the Eagle in the Tri-Service badge!

My question - is when it comes to painting these 'old' colours, who tells us what is the correct one - as I don't think they had pantones in those days .... did they?

+ Anthony

Hi Anthony,

Original colours were all by Winsor & Newton, for the Sealed Patterns. See attached jpg.

I believe there was a later MOD(N) document that gave instructions for painting ships' badges, but have never actually seen it. Don't know if included colours.

Cheers,

Ed

[lodesman]

ooh! i wish i could accept the accolade Anthony! but they were already painted when i got them yesterday, will get round to painting the R.F.A. ones in the correct colours soon. Thanks for the interesting document Ed :)
Regards, Mark.

[eskimosailor]

Just as things go through my head ... (no comment Ed!!), I was wondering if MAYBE the duck was meant to be ORANGE ... Iron (rust), Irn Brew (orange) ??

+ Anthony

Isn't Irn Brew an effective rust treatment? Most rust treatments seem to turn the rust black, so maybe that's an appropriate colour:D
Steve

[empiretocommonwealth]

Hi Anthony,

Original colours were all by Winsor & Newton, for the Sealed Patterns. See attached jpg.

I believe there was a later MOD(N) document that gave instructions for painting ships' badges, but have never actually seen it. Don't know if included colours.

Cheers,

Ed

Hi Ed,

As always - thanks for that - but it's very interesting that there was something before the existence of pantones that did regulate what a colour was!

I still remember this chap describing his shirt as 'duck egg blue'. Naturally he was shot for being an Eejit! HAHAHAHAHAHA!

I'm kidding!

+ Anthony


Isn't Irn Brew an effective rust treatment? Most rust treatments seem to turn the rust black, so maybe that's an appropriate colour:D
Steve

If ye have ever tasted Irn Brew y'might have thought it was the water after the Iron being steeped in it! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

+ Anthony

[lodesman]

Morning all, please could one (or more!) of you tell me why the crest i've just purchased from ebay is the shape it is please??? I'm going to re-paint it in the colours which are on the wine bottle label i aquired when i was down at Whale Island last year, unless someone can tell me otherwise.
Regards,Mark:)

[fleetchief]

Morning all, please could one (or more!) of you tell me why the crest i've just purchased from ebay is the shape it is please??? I'm going to re-paint it in the colours which are on the wine bottle label i aquired when i was down at Whale Island last year, unless someone can tell me otherwise.
Regards,Mark:)

Mark,

They're badges NOT crests.

I'm attaching an Unofficial badge for HMS Excellent that will help you repainting the badge.

Ed

[lodesman]

Hi Ed, thanks for the beautiful artwork! :) & have noted, they're Badges! :)
Regards, Mark.

[MelQuick]

Hi Ed

Ref your badge for the Bar class boom defence vessel HMS Barnwell - shouldn't it be Barwell?

Mel

[Tom Grant]

Greetings This is what i have for CORINTHIAN, has anyone got a better copies,


regards Tom

[fleetchief]

Hi Ed

Ref your badge for the Bar class boom defence vessel HMS Barnwell - shouldn't it be Barwell?

Mel

Hi Mel,

Wikepedia and uboat.net has her as BARWELL but the 'Shipping Times' list of Clyde built ships has her as BARNWELL, as does J J Colledge's 'Ships of the Royal Navy'. I'd take the latter two references as correct, i.e. BARNWELL.

However, note that Barnestone.jpg should be be named Barnstone.jpg. The name in the name box is spelt correctly.

Missing on the DVD are:

BARBARIAN
BARBOUR
BARBRAKE
BARDELL
BARFAIR
BARFLAKE
BARLIGHT

Cheers,

Ed

[MelQuick]

Ed

Thanks very much.

Mel

[lodesman]

Ships bage for H.M.S.Victorious, with angel in wrong colours, for sale on ebay, I presume from one of her boats as there's no crown??

[empiretocommonwealth]

Ships bage for H.M.S.Victorious, with angel in wrong colours, for sale on ebay, I presume from one of her boats as there's no crown??

Hi Lodesman,

I've not actually seen this without the crown before!

... I wonder who would want it if it's painted wrong! :p :o :rolleyes:

+ Anthony

[lodesman]

Hi Anthony! nor hadn't i seen it without a crown,that's why i'm guessing it's from 1 of her boats maybe? Another for sale is H.M.S. Chester, again without a crown (& i'd like it whatever colour as i'd re-paint it!) ;)

[lodesman]

An un-official badge.

[empiretocommonwealth]

An un-official badge.

Hi Lodesman,

Maybe this link will help - it's to my project. Here (http://empiretocommonwealth.webs.com/navalbases1.htm#653647920) (scroll down page to Monabs section).

Thanks,

+ Anthony

[fleetchief]

Hi Lodesman,

Maybe this link will help - it's to my project. Here (http://empiretocommonwealth.webs.com/navalbases1.htm#653647920) (scroll down page to Monabs section).

Thanks,

+ Anthony

Hi Anthony,

You'll note that its one of the badges on my RN DVD.

Cheers,

Ed

[empiretocommonwealth]

Hi Anthony,

You'll note that its one of the badges on my RN DVD.

Cheers,

Ed

Hi Ed,

I thought I recognised your font/style! As always, excellent work Ed.

+ Anthony

[fleetchief]

Hi Ed,

I thought I recognised your font/style! As always, excellent work Ed.

+ Anthony

Here's a 'new' one - NABCATCHER Unofficial

Cheers,

Ed

[empiretocommonwealth]

Here's a 'new' one - NABCATCHER Unofficial

Cheers,

Ed

Hi Ed,

Ooo! Thanks for this one :) I have 3 on my website - I understand there weren't any done for the others, which is a shame - and even that these three are all unofficial????

I remember seeing a MONAB website ... got to try to remember where it was! ............. Here y'go! here (http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/squadrons/monab.html)!

All the best my friend,

+ Anthony

[Canterburyfan]

Mike Waugh's badges site.
mikewaughshipsbadges.2itb.com

[empiretocommonwealth]

Mike Waugh's badges site.
mikewaughshipsbadges.2itb.com

........ I see a certain New Zealander's talent! ;)

LOVE your site Mike, LOVE IT! I really like how you did Champion, ANZAC, Vigilant and especially M3! the Duke of Edinburgh's detail is amazing.:) :) :)

Well done Mike!

Have ye now repaired all your badges that were broken in the earthquake - or is that still a work in progress?

+ Anthony

[Canterburyfan]

........ I see a certain New Zealander's talent! ;)

LOVE your site Mike, LOVE IT! I really like how you did Champion, ANZAC, Vigilant and especially M3! the Duke of Edinburgh's detail is amazing.:) :) :)

Well done Mike!

Have ye now repaired all your badges that were broken in the earthquake - or is that still a work in progress?

+ Anthony
Hi Anthony,
Thank you for your comments.
I still have 74 to paint and or repair,so will keep me going.
Mike

[empiretocommonwealth]

Hi Anthony,
Thank you for your comments.
I still have 74 to paint and or repair,so will keep me going.
Mike

That's it ... take me to the vets. I asked that question not so long ago! :confused: :o

Ignore me - I'm post-man-flu! :p

+ Anthony

[Tom Grant]

Greetings Mike
i have not been able to look at your site can you resend the web site

regards Tom

[empiretocommonwealth]

Greetings Mike
i have not been able to look at your site can you resend the web site

regards Tom

Hi Tom,

For Mike's site - click here (http://www.mikewaughshipsbadges.2itb.com/).

Best regards,

+ Anthony

[Tom Grant]

Thanks Anthony

i have now got it,

regards Tom

[lodesman]

Hi Anthony, many thanks for the info, opologies for posting a badge from your page, i havn't come across the badge below before???

[empiretocommonwealth]

Hi Anthony, many thanks for the info, opologies for posting a badge from your page, i havn't come across the badge below before???

Hi Lodesman,

Oh post away - don't misunderstand, please!

I'm happy people use my project!!

I've seen the badge before .... on here I'm guessing .... I'll see what I can dig up .....

+ Anthony

[Canterburyfan]

Hi Anthony, many thanks for the info, opologies for posting a badge from your page, i havn't come across the badge below before???
The other version of the ROMFT badge.

[limeybiker]

Hi Anthony, many thanks for the info, opologies for posting a badge from your page, i havn't come across the badge below before???
Brilliant, wish I had one.

[Canterburyfan]

Mike Waugh's badges site.
mikewaughshipsbadges.2itb.com

The above site did not give enough space for me to upload all the badges i have.
So have made a start here.
shipsbadges.webs.com.

[peteber1058]

Hi Have just joined the forum so bear with me if I repeat any info you may have had already.
Have just trawled through the posts on Ships Badges ( an interest of mine ) and noticed requests for any books on the subject. These are the ones I work from....

"Admiralty Ships Badges" Vol1 and 2 by T.P. Stopford
This contains all the official patterns from 1919-1994 in colour wth heraldic description. Taken from the original documents which were housed in Chatham Dockyard, and yes some clown did cut them down to fit a filing cabinet thus destroying some mottos and inscribed notes.

"The A to Z of Royal Naval Ships Badges" by B.Wilkinson, T.Stopford and D.Taylor
A deeper description ,history of the ship and photo. Unfortunately only two volumes were published covering HMS Abdiel to Buzzard.

"Badges and Battle Honours of H.m.Ships" by Lt.Cdr K.Burns
Once again a deep description with many ship photos and battle honours. The drawback is that it only covers ships in commission at the time of publishing i.e. mid 1980s

"Royal Navy Ships Badges" by Peter.C.Smith
Cross section of fifty or so ships with an interesting section on boats badges.

"Crests and Badges of HM Ships" by Alfred Weightman
This is really the "Bible" covering not only the official badges but also the unofficial ones where known. The only publication that does this that I know of. The drawback is out of print and difficult/costly to purchase.

Hope this helps someone and apologies if I have waffled on for a FIRST POST

SCRG1970

It may be of interest to readers that although this article was written in 2008 I have since located several copies of Crests and Badges by Alfred E Weightman, some in the UK and others in Canada and USA, prices from £21 plus P&P and can be obtained from the following web link: http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?an=Alfred+Weightman&bi=0&bx=off&ds=30&recentlyadded=all&sortby=17&sts=t&x=42&y=17

[empiretocommonwealth]

It may be of interest to readers that although this article was written in 2008 I have since located several copies of Crests and Badges by Alfred E Weightman, some in the UK and others in Canada and USA, prices from £21 plus P&P and can be obtained from the following web link: http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?an=Alfred+Weightman&bi=0&bx=off&ds=30&recentlyadded=all&sortby=17&sts=t&x=42&y=17

Hey thanks Peteber!

I've been looking for that book :eek: :eek: - y'little hero you! :)

Thanks a million!

+ Anthony

[peteber1058]

Hey thanks Peteber!

I've been looking for that book :eek: :eek: - y'little hero you! :)

Thanks a million!

+ Anthony

Glad to be of help.
Regards
Peter

[lodesman]

Hi all! Had a look at your site Anthony, but didn't see the one below, for Senior Naval Officer Northern Ireland. Sorry if you do have it, or it's elswhere on here somewhere! Regards, Mark.

[lodesman]

Another, which i presume to be from R.M.A.S. Whitehead??

[ajd84]

Here's a 'new' one - NABCATCHER Unofficial

Cheers,

Ed

I see you guys have stumbled across my unofficial MONAB badges again.

These are my original artwork, all three are extrapolated from designs found on ships newsletters and Christmas cards. Of the 9 Mobile Naval Air Bases and 1 Transportable Aircraft Maintenance Yard designs have come to light for only these three - NABARON (http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive.org.uk/MONABS/Nabaron-1.html) (Motto: MOVERE ET SERVIRE), NABREKKIE (http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive.org.uk/MONABS/Nabreekie-1.html) (Motto: DICTUM FACTUM), & NABCTACHER (http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive.org.uk/MONABS/Nabcatcher-1.html) (Motto: E PLURIBUS UNUM)

Above link take you to the relevant ship's history on my web site.The colour scheme of the badges is guess work, all are constructed from elements of other ship;s badges.
Below are the materials from which the badges are derived and the outline and full dolour versions developed for the web site..

[lodesman]

Another not seen by me before.

[spooksxintel]

For the USS Blue Ridge (LCC-19), first of the Blue Ridge Class, an Amphibious Communications and Command Ship, commissioned 14 Nov 1970 at the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard, currently the Flagship for the 7th Fleet out of Yokuska and scheduled to be decommissioned in 2039 (BIG, BIG COCKROACHES...crew wears camouflage!). Badge bought in the ship's store, 1971.

[Canterburyfan]

I have been sent these South African badges.
The gentleman has a nice collection by the looks.
These are the size i was sent,i tried to make larger but they go out of focus.

[empiretocommonwealth]

I have been sent these South African badges.
The gentleman has a nice collection by the looks.
These are the size i was sent,i tried to make larger but they go out of focus.

Hi Mike,

FIRST OF ALL .... Happy Waitangi Day! And yes, the New Zealand flag is flying in my garden for ye guys. :cool:

LOVE the badges, I wonder how big they are in real life?

I guess I'm still missing a few badges, but here's my link to S. African naval ship badges within my project (http://empiretocommonwealth.webs.com/navalships5.htm). :)

All the best,

+ Anthony

[empiretocommonwealth]

I see you guys have stumbled across my unofficial MONAB badges again.

These are my original artwork, all three are extrapolated from designs found on ships newsletters and Christmas cards. Of the 9 Mobile Naval Air Bases and 1 Transportable Aircraft Maintenance Yard designs have come to light for only these three - NABARON (http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive.org.uk/MONABS/Nabaron-1.html) (Motto: MOVERE ET SERVIRE), NABREKKIE (http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive.org.uk/MONABS/Nabreekie-1.html) (Motto: DICTUM FACTUM), & NABCTACHER (http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive.org.uk/MONABS/Nabcatcher-1.html) (Motto: E PLURIBUS UNUM)

Above link take you to the relevant ship's history on my web site.The colour scheme of the badges is guess work, all are constructed from elements of other ship;s badges.
Below are the materials from which the badges are derived and the outline and full dolour versions developed for the web site..

Hi AJD,

Yes we have! Isn't it a shame though that all the MONABs didn't have a badge! :(

Hope you're well!

+ Anthony

[Tom Grant]

Once Again I Have A Shield, That Is Not In Focus As Its Been Spoilt With The Flash, Can Any One Help Me Please

Regards Tom

[Tom Grant]

Greetings All

Can anyone explain why HMS DELPHINIUM a flower class ship has a fish on the badge, any help would help

Regards Tom

[fleetchief]

Greetings All

Can anyone explain why HMS DELPHINIUM a flower class ship has a fish on the badge, any help would help

Regards Tom

Hi Tom,

This 1926 design was by ffoulkes. At the time he explained that the flower was too small to illustrate. He then went on to explain Delphinus = Dolphin. The design follows the dolphin in the Arms of the Dauphine of France.

The motto.. Delphinium Non Doces Natare (You don't teach a dolphin to swim).

Cheers,

Ed

[Tom Grant]

Thanks Ed
i am doing up my "D" book and came across the picture of the heraldic dolphin and wondered why , I hope your feeling much better and your legs are all working as they should, We are having some Canadian weather here at the moment, My canadian brother is in Arizona, ( Snow Bird), Nice to hear from you. John Priest had a Minor stroke, but he has pulled through, i see him quite often
Best Regards Tom

[Tom Grant]

Greetings

any help with this badge would be appreciated, here it is in colour , but no background as to what it is ,

Best Regards Tom

[KizmeRD]

Greetings
any help with this badge would be appreciated, here it is in colour , but no background as to what it is ,
Best Regards Tom

HMAS Lismore, Bathurst class minesweeping sloop (WW2)
Michael

[Tom Grant]

Thanks michael, great help i have now done up the page in my book with the information

regards Tom

[Tom Grant]

Greetings

once again i am after some information , any help would be greatfuly received, another badge but only the initials, COLOURS ETC, Perhaps SRO and SRC are the same place, looks like the same badge

Regards Tom

[KizmeRD]

SRC = Submarine Refit Complex, Devonport Dockyard (UK)
Michael

[KizmeRD]

Not 100% certain I'm correct, but I believe that S/M 2 relates the RN's 2nd Submarine Squadron, and S/M 7 was very well known to me as a kid - being the 7th Submarine Squadron supported by HMS Forth, based in Singapore (mid-sixties).
Michael

[AlanScoot]

Hello All.

Please tell me if I'm in the wrong place, but I'm trying to find then obtain a sew-able patch or lapel pin for HMS Fencer (Escort Carrier) My Father was on her '44 till he was demobbed, then emigrated to Australia 1951.

Thank you, Alan.

[fleetchief]

Greetings

once again i am after some information , any help would be greatfuly received, another badge but only the initials, COLOURS ETC, Perhaps SRO and SRC are the same place, looks like the same badge

Regards Tom

Hi Tom,

I'll do up my versions. When blown up I can see the last badge is also S.R.C. and NOT S.R.O.

I'll use the same colours for S/M 2 & S/M 7 as used in S.R.C.

Cheers,

Ed

[fleetchief]

Hi Tom,

Here's the first one - Submarine Refit Complex (Devonport)

Cheers,

Ed

[Tom Grant]

Greetings Ed

a big THANK YOU,

Best Regards Tom

[fleetchief]

Greetings Ed

a big THANK YOU,

Best Regards Tom

Hi Tom,

Here's my rendering of S/M 7. Your original was an unpainted casting so I had to take a guess on colours. Decided to use same colour field as SRC; submarine to be a shade of black with black detail lines and the '7' as bevelled silver with black outline.

If anyone comes up with original colours I can always redo it.

Cheers,

Ed

[Stokers Son]

Hi Ed,
Once again great work, all the best to you
Regards
John

[Tom Grant]

Greetings Ed

once again Thanks, these badges i am working on now will take there place in my collection , they were collected as i went along and colours etc have long been missplaced or forgotten, so once again thanks for doing up the badges

Regards Tom

[Tom Grant]

Greetings Once Again,

I have Badges for Submarine Squadron's 1,2,3,7,10, and i guess that Submarine Squadron 4,5,6,8,9,etc were around and maybe had badges, can anyone help. thank Ed, Michael and John for your help so far ,
I have two different badges for 2nd SQUADRON

Regards Tom

[Tom Grant]

Greetings Ed,

what about this badge i have it logged as HMS SANTON, Ton class Sweeper
but now looking at it the name is not clear, it could be an unofficial from SANTON, can you help please


Regards Tom

[fleetchief]

Greetings Ed,

what about this badge i have it logged as HMS SANTON, Ton class Sweeper
but now looking at it the name is not clear, it could be an unofficial from SANTON, can you help please


Regards Tom

The name appears to be SANDTON, but there was no Ton class minesweeper with that name. So, either a mistake in the spelling or a badge for an intended ship that didn't happen. It was an unofficial badge, as the Ton class had a 'Type' badge.

Cheers,

Ed

[fleetchief]

Greetings Ed

once again Thanks, these badges i am working on now will take there place in my collection , they were collected as i went along and colours etc have long been missplaced or forgotten, so once again thanks for doing up the badges

Regards Tom

Hi Tom,

Here's my S/M 2 badge.

My first draft in 1960 was HMS ADAMANT at Faslane (3rd Submarine Squadron), but I don't remember that we had a Squadron badge.

Cheers,

Ed

[Tom Grant]

Thanks Ed ,
as i have been collecting badge for years and never seen those missing Submarine Squadrons i guessed that they may not be around ,but it was a chance some one had a unofficial badge and would have passed on their copy after my appeal

Regards Tom

[Canterburyfan]

Has anyone got a larger copy of this South African badge.

[tonclass]

Just going through some old photo's and found this badge pic from HMS CADIZ

[fleetchief]

Just going through some old photo's and found this badge pic from HMS CADIZ

Here's my restored version.

Cheers,

Ed

[Tom Grant]

Greetings All

any help with this badge , i can see colours etc but who did it belong to

Regards Tom

[Canterburyfan]

Greetings All

any help with this badge , i can see colours etc but who did it belong to

Regards Tom

MCM1 staff headquarters is based at HMNB Clyde Faslane in Scotland and forms part of Commodore Faslane Flotilla Organization

[Tom Grant]

Greetings All

looks like i was mixing MCM1 with SUTHERLAND, only holding something Different,

I will record this MCM1 badge into my collection as it is

Regards Tom

[Tom Grant]

Thanks Canterburyfan

I was mixed up thinking that MCM1 had used another badge, but i now know who they are

Thanks
Regards Tom

[Tom Grant]

Greetings,
once again i have a badge with initials can any one help me to record this badge, what it is ,were it is/was


regards Tom

[Canterburyfan]

Greetings,
once again i have a badge with initials can any one help me to record this badge, what it is ,were it is/was


regards Tom

FAA.
M.T.P. Maintenance Test Pilot.

[Brian Wentzell]

Tom:(Post 7191)

SM6 was based with the RCN from 1954 until 1967 at Halifax, Canada. This was an ASW training squadron consisting of three later "A" Class boats that were mixed manned by the RN and RCN. They were RN commanded and the administrative name for the RN station was HMS Ambrose. My question to the readers is: Dis either SM6 or HMS Ambrose have badges?

Brian

[Brian Wentzell]

Tom: Sorry for the sad "face" that mysteriously appeared in my previous post tonight. Also "Dis" should be "Did". I guess it is time to turn in for the night!
Brian

[fleetchief]

Tom:(Post 7191)

SM6 was based with the RCN from 1954 until 1967 at Halifax, Canada. This was an ASW training squadron consisting of three later "A" Class boats that were mixed manned by the RN and RCN. They were RN commanded and the administrative name for the RN station was HMS Ambrose. My question to the readers is: Dis either SM6 or HMS Ambrose have badges?

Brian

Hi Brian, There was a badge designed for HMS AMBROSE in 1921. I don't know if it got updated for the station in Canada.

Cheers,

Ed

[Brian Wentzell]

Ed: Thanks very much. I will consult a submariner friend who was one of the Canadian officers who served in the "A" boats of SM6 during the Cuban missile crisis.
Brian

[fleetchief]

Ed: Thanks very much. I will consult a submariner friend who was one of the Canadian officers who served in the "A" boats of SM6 during the Cuban missile crisis.
Brian

Hi Brian,

My wife's uncle was the Commander of the CF Atlantic Forces, based in Halifax. He got fed up with the Federal Government shilly-shallying on the Cuban Crisis, so he ordered all his ships to go down and help the U.S. Navy. They formed part of the blockade. Got his knuckles rapped but they couldn't do too much because the yanks were so pleased with what he did. He did end up getting promoted and ended up as Vice Admiral Kenneth Dyer, DSC. Like many other Senior Officers, he resigned in protest when Mr. Hellyer amalgamated all the forces into one Canadian Forces and put them all in "Jolly Green" uniforms. Unfortunately he passed away some time ago, so can't go to him for an answer to the question.

Cheers,

Ed

[Tom Grant]

Greetings All

I am now looking for any unofficial badges from the TON CLASS sweepers,
I have Bronnington,( prince Charles ) Crichton, ( Golly) Soberton, ( fisherman with a pint) also banana boat, Diving Helmet, Jammy Dodger, Special "k" , Martini Bottle, , Polly Parrot , Sorry the names of the boats slipped my mind at the moment Are there any more around, they make interesting reading in my books ,as to how the boats wore unusual badges, It has also been suggested by a friend that some of the Ships used badges relating to the Town they are named after, any help would be really greatl in my research

Best Regards Tom

[empiretocommonwealth]

Like many other Senior Officers, he resigned in protest when Mr. Hellyer amalgamated all the forces into one Canadian Forces and put them all in "Jolly Green" uniforms.

Well done that man! I'm DELIGHTED we have the 'Royal Canadian Navy' back!

Hope you're well Ed!,

+ Anthony

[Tom Grant]

Greetings

Once again i need help, While collecting the Bridge mascots of the Tom Class Sweepers, i have come across another problem, I have been advised that the one time mascot of the Ton Class HMS Gavinton was the Sanderman Port Logo ( Man in a black cape and a Sombrero), While doing the research for the Sanderman logo, i have come across this Picture of the Gavinton with what looks like a Boxing Glove on the Bridge can anyone help me solve this.


Regards Tom

[KizmeRD]

I'm guessing that this wasn't a permanent mascot, but rather a temporary tribute to one of the ship's company who had possibly just won a weight category at the RN Boxing Championships??? (the chef perhaps?:D).
Michael

[Rob Hoole]

Hello Tom,

That would have been while Falklands bomb disposal veteran Lt Cdr Nigel Arthur 'Bernie' Bruen MBE, DSC, RN commanded HMS GAVINTON during the mid-1980s. Despite being a minewarfare & clearance diving officer (MCDO) where any knock-out could have ended his career on medical grounds, he was a keen boxer and his ship's team reigned supreme, even against many larger ships, in inter-ship boxing competitions.

Bernie had previously been the First Lieutenant of 'Gavvie' and had an extremely soft spot for her. He was appointed an MBE for finding and recovering a Soviet-era ground mine, one of 20 laid surreptitiously by the Libyans in the Red Sea in 1984, while commanding her. The clearance operation was code-named HARLING.

[Tom Grant]

once again Rob a big thank you ,
I hope you dont mind me using your info in my books,

Best regards Tom

[Brian Wentzell]

Tom:
This is a follow-up to Post 7205. My friend was the navigation officer on the later "A" boats in the 1962 period. Contrary to some published reports the RCN portion of the Halifax based boats was one officer (uaually the navigation officer) and 10-15% of the ratings. The other RCN submariners were spread across the RN submarine fleet and served as far afield as Sydney, Australia. Many did not want to return to the Northwest Atlantic!

The RN actually assigned submarines for short periods each summer from 1949 through 1954. SM6 formed in 1955 and ceased operations in 1967 on the arrival of HMCS Onondaga, the second Canadian "O" boat.

The Canadians serving with the RN served in all classes and eventually transitioned to the Porpoise and Oberon classes in preparation for arrival of the Canadian "O" boats.

Brian

[Tom Grant]

greetings all

another problem can anyone help with these badges, yes unofficial but someone may know how they came about
both these ships were ton class sweepers, why did they change from the type badge to these badges
best regards Tom

[Tom Grant]

Greetings Again

Still sorting out the TON CLASS ( I think unofficial badges , as they would have worn a type badge,) and came across a few more problems, once again any help would be greatly appreciated, These badges must have a source and someone may know about them,
sorry about the quality of the pictures, what you see is what i have

Best regards Tom

[Tom Grant]

oops missed one

[Rob Hoole]

Goodness me, John. Where have you been finding all these TON badges?

I have looked for clues in the Ton Class Association's new book, 'Jacks of All Trades - Operational Records of TON Class Minesweepers & Mineseepers' (http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10017142&postcount=4), but without success. However, the inside and outside rear cover displays a range of squadron funnel badges in colour.

[Tom Grant]

Greetings Rob,

back to my original remarks about the badges that the ships company would have known their ship by, The type badge is not normaly the badge that the crew associate with their ship, I have come across this problem many times,
I think these are the last of the TONS, and i am hoping that i can move onto the next task, since my last e-mail i have found a bridge screen mascot for DARTINGTON,

best regards Tom

[Tom Grant]

Greetings Alan

I am still trying to find a copy of the unofficial badge for HM Submarine Truant, I see from the forum , The Submarine Association ( Barrow) and also from Tim Stopfords Book that there was a design of a Unofficial badge for this Submarine of a dog running loose with a lead, but after years and years of chasing , I have yet to see a copy of this badge, strang that every one knows about the badge but nobody has a copy, can any one please help

Regards Tom

[limeybiker]

Greetings Alan

I am still trying to find a copy of the unofficial badge for HM Submarine Truant, I see from the forum , The Submarine Association ( Barrow) and also from Tim Stopfords Book that there was a design of a Unofficial badge for this Submarine of a dog running loose with a lead, but after years and years of chasing , I have yet to see a copy of this badge, strang that every one knows about the badge but nobody has a copy, can any one please help

Regards Tom
Apologies to whoever posted, is this what you want. Perhaps Ed can breathe his magic on it.

[Tom Grant]

Apologies to whoever posted, is this what you want. Perhaps Ed can breathe his magic on it.

Greetings Barry

No that is not the badge i am looking for, all the badges for TRUANT were unofficial , its another unofficial badge showing a dog running dragging its lead, as i posted well known but as of now never seen,

Thanks for your help

Regards Tom

[fleetchief]

Greetings Again

Still sorting out the TON CLASS ( I think unofficial badges , as they would have worn a type badge,) and came across a few more problems, once again any help would be greatly appreciated, These badges must have a source and someone may know about them,
sorry about the quality of the pictures, what you see is what i have

Best regards Tom

Hi Tom,

Here's INVERMORISTON. All the other images are very small, so I'm not sure if I can do anything with them, but will try.

Cheers,

Ed

[Tom Grant]

Thanks Ed

Every bit is greatly appreciated, I stumbled on this problem when i put your type badges into my files and found out there was two badges for some of the ships named as Ton Class Sweepers that had been isssued with the type badges, There is also a bit of a problem with some of the inshore squadron with some of the ford boats having also sea defence badges,

Thanks Ed
Regards Tom

[Linton]

What did the crest of HMS Medway look like?

[empiretocommonwealth]

What did the crest of HMS Medway look like?

Does this help? This is from Alan Benn's collection - I'm sure Ed will show ye his art work.

+ Anthony

[fleetchief]

Thanks Ed

Every bit is greatly appreciated, I stumbled on this problem when i put your type badges into my files and found out there was two badges for some of the ships named as Ton Class Sweepers that had been isssued with the type badges, There is also a bit of a problem with some of the inshore squadron with some of the ford boats having also sea defence badges,

Thanks Ed
Regards Tom

Hi Tom,

Here's a couple more reworked from your VERY small images <grin>

Cheers,

Ed

[fleetchief]

What did the crest of HMS Medway look like?

The original was approved in 1927. Updated in 1943 for the later ship. I've attached both versions.

Cheers,

Ed

[Linton]

Thank you Ed. do you know if HMS Medway II(the shore base in Beirut) had a different crest?

[fleetchief]

Thank you Ed. do you know if HMS Medway II(the shore base in Beirut) had a different crest?

The shorebase was HMS MEDWAY and had the updated 1943 badge. Various ships that acted as Depot Ships were named HMS MEDWAY II. They probably continued using their own badge.

Cheers,

Ed

[fleetchief]

Thanks Ed

Every bit is greatly appreciated, I stumbled on this problem when i put your type badges into my files and found out there was two badges for some of the ships named as Ton Class Sweepers that had been isssued with the type badges, There is also a bit of a problem with some of the inshore squadron with some of the ford boats having also sea defence badges,

Thanks Ed
Regards Tom

Hi Tom,

Here's the other Unofficial for the 2nd Submarine Squadron.

Cheers,

Ed

[Tom Grant]

greetings Ed

thanks , another great badge

regards Tom

[fleetchief]

greetings Ed

thanks , another great badge

regards Tom

And here's TRUANT

Cheers,

Ed

[Tom Grant]

Thanks Ed
once again good badge

Regards Tom

[fleetchief]

Thanks Ed
once again good badge

Regards Tom

Hi Tom,

Me again with another one of your badges. Slowly getting through them.

Cheers,

Ed

[fleetchief]

Greetings Ed,

what about this badge i have it logged as HMS SANTON, Ton class Sweeper
but now looking at it the name is not clear, it could be an unofficial from SANTON, can you help please


Regards Tom

Hi Tom,

Name not clear, even when 'blown up', so I've assumed you are correct and named it SANTON.

Cheers,

Ed

[fleetchief]

Hi Tom,

The badge you posted was in b&w so I had to guess at the colours.

Cheers,

Ed

[Tom Grant]

Thanks Ed

Your a star

Regards Tom

[joseph bonnici]

Tom he is a super star Joseph

[Tom Grant]

wow !! Joseph
Long time since you have been on the forum, how is your badge collection coming on, Yes i am aware of the great job Ed has done for me with them very poor Ton Class Badges

Regards Tom

[fleetchief]

113358wow !! Joseph
Long time since you have been on the forum, how is your badge collection coming on, Yes i am aware of the great job Ed has done for me with them very poor Ton Class Badges

Regards Tom

And here's another one to bite the dust. Took a bit of work this one.

Cheers,

Ed

[Tom Grant]

Hello Ed

can you rename this last badge chawton, sorry !!, i do appreciate that you are having a hard job sorting the pictures, but i;am sorry thats all i have ,

Thanks Regards Tom

[fleetchief]

Hello Ed

can you rename this last badge chawton, sorry !!, i do appreciate that you are having a hard job sorting the pictures, but i;am sorry thats all i have ,

Thanks Regards Tom

Hi Tom,

I've replaced the CHAUTON with a CHAWTON. I'm sure I name it the same as the original jpg!!!

I assume CHAUTON (1) should now be CHAWTON (1)?

Cheers,

Ed

[fleetchief]

Hi Tom,

As usual the poor quality of the original made it difficult to work out what sort of bird it was. In the end I decided it was a Peregrine, so that's what you get <grin>. I hope it satifies your needs.

Cheers,

Ed

[Scratcher]

Does anyone have any examples of Unofficial Motor Gunboat badges.They seem to be like hens teeth.

Peter.

[Dave palmer]

these are the only ones I have come across

[SCRG1970]

Does anyone have any examples of Unofficial Motor Gunboat badges.They seem to be like hens teeth.

Peter.

One more to add to Daves contribution

Regards

Gerry

[Scratcher]

Many thanks Dave and Gerry,I also have those examples.Just have to keep looking.I feel certain there are others.

Peter.