SHIPS/BADGES - CRESTS etc

[SCRG1970]

Alan

Have posted both Ramillies badges that were officially approved. Apparently the first one was disliked and never used. Not surprising as it looks more like a badge for the Scout Association than a warship.

Not a brilliant copy but perhaps you can enhance it.

Regards

Gerry

[alanbenn]

Gerry, thanks for posting your 2 badges for Ramillies, I'll not post mine so they're not duplicated, I personally prefer the 1st badge issued although I agree it looks like the scouts badge, the second badge issued I think looks quite amateurish in comparison to most ships badges.


Regards
Alan

[astraltrader]

I agree with you Alan as the two badges stand, although I think the design of the second one is better. If it was redrawn in a less amaturish way it could have been really good IMO.

[alanbenn]

You're right there Terry, here's the one I have, re-touched by myself, there are some badges with really good paintings of Lion's so I think it would have been better if given to another artist.

But I suppose some artists are better at certain things than others as your thread on Liners proves, if you are good at a particular subject it does show in your work.


Regards
Alan

[astraltrader]

Good point Alan. I only hope that people in the forum get as much out of the Liner postcard art that I am currently posting as I [and many others here as well] have out of your fine badges.

As I have said here before although I have taken a bit of interest in some ships badges over the years it took this brilliant thread of yours to really spark some enthusiasm. I help many members with their avatars and your badges have even helped me there!

As a prolific serial-poster of postcards and photo`s in the forum, I know how much time and effort it does take to think, select, scan, organise and upload them here. This as well in your case, is on top of all the art-work you have done on them over the years in the first place!

All I can say is thank you!:):)

[alanbenn]

Terry, thanks ever so much for the kind words, the feeling is mutual with regards to your postings too.

I am not normally that much interested in the art-work, but on occassions have found some of them fascinating, one or two of your Liner ones had caught my eye before they were deleted.

Many years ago I managed to get hold of a print of the field-gun competition at Earls court, it was the very last one for sale. I put it in a large frame and donated it to raise funds for the Star and Garter home.

I've been on the look out for a copy of it ever since to no avail, it's one of the few I was really taken to.

Regards
Alan

[astraltrader]

Thanks Alan. Just so that you know every card that was deleted will be back in the Liners thread plus at least 30% new cards on top.

[alanbenn]

To continue the thread of badges, as some of you may know I work as a Paramedic here in the North East. The badges for the Ambulance service are also designed by the college of arms, they have been sought after for many years by collectors mainly due to the reduction in the total amount of Ambulance services. Once upon a time almost every county had it's own service. Originally the North East ambulance service was the combination of Northumberland and Durham ambulance Services which amalgamated. It has since added parts of Tees and North Yorkshire.

Anyway here's the badge that we use. Along with badges for the medical branches of the Royal Navy. The designs all incorporate the 'STAFF OF LIFE' depicted by the snake curling around the staff or sword.

Regards
Alan

[SCRG1970]

Alan

Another nice set of badges and a shame that we have lost our Naval Hospitals,I guess that was the thin edge of the wedge which led to the closure of so many Military Hospitals. I had a spell in QEMH at Woolwich a few years ago and as well as Military they took NHS patients. They all agreed the treatment was first class----how we could do with that service now !!!!

Regards

gerry

[SCRG1970]

Have dug out some more of the UNOFFICIAL badges carried and worn in the pre-1919 era.

1 INDEFATIGIBLE Battlecruiser
2 NEW ZEALAND same class

I cant find one for the AUSTRALIA, anyone out there knows of one ??


3 LION Lion Class Battlecruiser
4 QUEEN MARY
5 PRINCESS ROYAL
6 TIGER

7 REPULSE I have included this one as I like the perverseness of it ! The admiralty says "Heres your official badge" and Jack replies "No thanks we like the other one !" How many times in your naval career did you want to say that ????

Regards

Gerry

[joseph bonnici]

thanks alan and jerry for your invaluable contribution especially ships badges .it happens to be my favourite subject. well done

[nogrub]

Thank you Alan and Gerry for the Ships Badges they are great.

I thought I had copies of RNH Bighi and RNH Chatham's badges, but I can't find them, maybe I am wrong and they do not exist.

If so, I am sure someone will put me right.

Regards
Harry

[upspirits]

Hi Nogrub I was begining to think that I was the only one to serve on the Urania..I was on the same commissioning as you, (1955)-(electrical mess) EM2 / 1 and well remember gathering up all the messdeck food, drink and broken seats/table when we hit the open sea on leaving Sleima in that drop of roughers. 'upspirits'

[alanbenn]

On the last post I omitted the badge for the Institute of Naval Medicine, here it is below, depicted with Lemon's used in the treatment of 'scurvy'

I have also included some of the generally unheard of badges.
UWE underwater weapons establishment
AUWE admiralty underwater weapons establishment
HMUDE HM underwater detection establishment.....I think this was a sonar research place in Portland.

RN Test Squadron..... Aircraft evaluation.

RN Tactical School....no ideas where this one was...anybody know?

Regards
Alan

[nogrub]

I have sent you a PM.

Regards
Harry

[alanbenn]

Harry, I think you may be right regarding badges for RNH Chatham I don't have one but I was sure there was one. Don't know about Bighi though?

If anyone has a copy of RNH Chatham badge it would be most welcomed on this thread.

Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

The badge for Hms mackay as promised in another thread.


Regards
Alan

[nogrub]

Alan.

I'm not sure but there may not have been a Badge for Bighi as it would appear to have been a Royal Artillery, and Naval Hospital.

Regards
Harry

[vivian]

Alan, your post #243 is another fine example of how clever they were in coming up with the designs, e.g. the chess game for Tactical and the lemon tree for Medicine. This is another great thread that requires plenty of time to have a good look at the art work.

Great stuff Alan and Gerry,

regards
Vivian

[alanbenn]

Vivian, thank you for your comments. Most of the artists did seem to be very imaginative when painting the badges.

Below are some examples of the badges for the 'Hunt' class destroyers, the badges all portray some form of Hunting, not quite PC nowadays, in days gone by about 80+ ships were named after 'Hunts' from around the country.


Regards
Alan

[historydavid]

Still more interesting badges, Alan. Please keep on posting them.

[alanbenn]

More badges of the 'Hunt' class, Dulverton is a particular favourite of mine as it captures the images of Hunting very well.


More to follow tomorrow......


Alan

[alanbenn]

This next batch of badges need no descriptions as the names themselves do that, they are of course all Royal Fleet Aux. ships which have played a major part in our lives at sea and of course vital to the warship yet somehow they don't always get the recognition they deserve.


another batch of badges of ships not often highlighted to follow...


Regards
Alan

[SCRG1970]

Alan

Fine set of badges.

Nice to see the RFA represented as any day soon they will have more ships than the rest of the fleet !!!

Regards

Gerry

[alanbenn]

many thanks to those who have emailed me regarding the Para's badge I'm currently using as a signature. The reason it's there is that my Father-in-law was one of the few who survived the Battle of Arnhem, taken POW.

Sadly he passed away sometime ago, but he would have been 90 yrs old this month, so I thought I would display the badge in memory of him for this month.

Here's the full version of it, along with the same badge with a maroon background.

Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Here are the badges for the 'Fort' ships, some you will recognise from WW2, the names are carried on by the modern day RFA's.

Aside from seeing the badges..can anyone spot the odd ones out?


Answers please...


Regards
Alan

[joseph bonnici]

fort george , grange,langley, victoria and rosalie. i believe

[alanbenn]

Joseph, I'm afraid you're wrong with your answer, they're not the odd ones out.


Alan

[kc]

Langley and Rosalie are on silver rather than gold?

[joseph bonnici]

i try again. fort langley, fort rosalie and fort victoria because the names are on white background and not on black.

[alanbenn]

KC, sorry m'Lud but that's not correct either. There are several badges with different coloured rope, depended entirely on the artist.

Joseph, sorry once again, as with the above, depended on the artist as to the name box being different colours, some of the older badges had different colours depending on the type of ship.


keep trying though, it's easier than you think.

Alan

[jbryce1437]

I will hazard a guess that Grange and Victoria are the odd ones out, the remainder have the distictive white/blue wavy lines:confused:

[alanbenn]

JIm, sorry incorrect also................................

The answer is Fort constantine, Fort Dunvegan, Fort Sandusky.

None of those was issued with an official badge, the badges shown are ones I designed myself some years ago with the aim of submitting them as patterns, sadly I never got round to doing it.

I am rather proud they pass as official.

Regards
Alan

[bluestreak]

Although I don't have any ships crests to publish, I do have stamps depicting ships crests. Between 1982 and 1991 Gibraltar issued 4 stamps per year. I will have to play around and see if I can scan them.

Tony L

[alanbenn]

Tony, thank you for your input already, I look forward to seeing the stamps when you're ready to post them onto the forum. If you need any assistance with the posting process just ask and someone will explain it for you if needed.

Regards
Alan

[nogrub]

Alan.

Thank you for great sets of ships badges, and your explanition on the RFA Fort class, it certainly had me stumped, keep them coming.

Regards

Harry

[alanbenn]

The flower class corvettes were never issued with badges as they fell below the 'size' of ship rule.

However some adopted the badges of previous ships with that name, there aren't many of them in total, here's a selection of some.


Regards
Alan

[Harley]

Do you know if any of the Canadian "Flower" class Corvettes ever fitted themselves up with a ship's badge, Alan, out of interest?

Cheers,
Simon

[jbryce1437]

JIm, sorry incorrect also................................

The answer is Fort constantine, Fort Dunvegan, Fort Sandusky.

None of those was issued with an official badge, the badges shown are ones I designed myself some years ago with the aim of submitting them as patterns, sadly I never got round to doing it.

I am rather proud they pass as official.

Regards
Alan

Thanks for that Alan, they certainly look the biz;)

[Chris Howat]

Here is an "A" you may not have

[SCRG1970]

Nice "unofficial" Chris, I havent seen that one before. Was it on a letterhead or postcard?

Regards

gerry

[SCRG1970]

Do you know if any of the Canadian "Flower" class Corvettes ever fitted themselves up with a ship's badge, Alan, out of interest?

Cheers,
Simon

Simon

These may be of interest to you.

Heres a couple of "unofficial" badges worn by FENNEL and HEPATICA. Reported as being painted up on the Gunshields, a practice common to the Canadian Navy in WW II.

Regards
Gerry

[alanbenn]

Simon, I have almost 200 canadian ships badges, but as yet not totally touched up by myself, still getting round to those. I will be adding them to my collection of Canadian ships and will be able to give you a chance to see any.
Meanwhile if there are any in particular let me know and I'll have a quick look to see if there is one for that ship.

Regards
Alan

[battlestar]

Have dug out some more of the UNOFFICIAL badges carried and worn in the pre-1919 era.

1 INDEFATIGIBLE Battlecruiser
2 NEW ZEALAND same class

I cant find one for the AUSTRALIA, anyone out there knows of one ??

Regards

Gerry

G'Day Gerry.

There is a HMAS Australia crest from WWI which I found in the great book: Australia’s Naval Heritage – The Captial Ships. Their Battles and their Badges. By Vic Cassells. Pubished by Kangaroo Press

Vic's comments on the badge is...

"HMAS Australia I Ship’s Badge
In response to a request by Navy Office on 9 April 1913, the commanding officer was given approval to spend £57 on a carving of the Australian coat-of-arms for use as a ship's badge. This was approved, and a wooden template of the badge was placed aboard the SS Kapunda on 27 July 1914, and sent to Williamstown Dockyard, Victoria — to be forwarded to Navy Office on arrival. There is no further record until 1920, when the template was reported lost! The badge depicted in Figure 3.3 was worn by the ship, but no record remains of how the design came to be changed to the federation star, nor of the time and place of manufacture. It might have been after she became flagship of the 2nd Battle Cruiser Squadron. The badge was of cast brass, unpainted."

Now there are two other versions of the Australia Crest, from WWII and a modern one just in case we finally have a third HMAS Australia (Which if not for the Falklands War HMS Invincible was to be sold to Australia and so named.)

Hope it helps:)

[SCRG1970]

Battlestar

Thanks for that badge of Australia, I knew there had to be one and what a strange story attached to it. Have you seen any photos of the "Federation star" used on the ship ?

Regards

gerry

[Chris Howat]

A crest off a letter from a collection in my possession, dating from around 1865 onwards. The Asp was a wooden paddle packet.
Here ia another

[battlestar]

Battlestar

Thanks for that badge of Australia, I knew there had to be one and what a strange story attached to it. Have you seen any photos of the "Federation star" used on the ship ?

Regards

gerry

G'Day Gerry

Sorry mate, but the ship's crest is the Federation Star, the image on the post is the actual crest. Rumor had it that the first version was the crest of Australia, which had the symbol of each state, but there is no hard evidence of this. The crest itself was for decades in the RAN's historical depot on Spectecle Island in Sydney, but I've only just heard that it might be on display in the new RAN museum in Sydney.

Any other questions, don't hesitate to ask.

Ian:D

[alanbenn]

The next batch of badges I thought I would highlight is those of the 'Blackwood' class frigates. The reason I chose these is that quite a few of them took their names from previous ships and therefore they retained the badge. So you have the badges for more than one ship.

However, please note that over the years the badges all changed to 'round' shapes, as depicted with Palliser. I will cover some of the more notable ones at a later stage.

Enjoy these ones, and if anyone would like a particular type of ship to be covered please feel free to comment.

Regards
Alan

[joseph bonnici]

another magnificent set of badges Alan. well done

[Harley]

Belated response to your reply to my inquiry, Alan (hmm, that scans rather poorly).

I'm on the lookout for the ship's badge of H.M.C.S. "Camrose", the final ship of one of my heroes, Jim B. Lamb, author of "The Corvette Navy" et al.

Cheers,
Simon

[SCRG1970]

Simon

I think you may be out of luck with Camrose. It appears the Ships badge committee pretty well ignored the Canadian corvettes until 1946, just before she was scrapped.

This indifference led to unofficial crests appearing on the Canadian ships and many of them ended up on the walls of the Crows Nest in Newfoundland. I dont have a record of an unofficial for Camrose and can only offer this grainy photo from March 1945.


Regards

Gerry

[alanbenn]

Simon, sadly I'm unable to help any either, as Gerry has said I don't think there was a badge for her and alas I don't yet have a photo of her either.
Regards
Alan

[SCRG1970]

Alan

Really striking set of badges for the Blackwoods when seen altogether. How come they had a great badge and were so uncomfortable at sea ???

Keep them coming.

Regards

Gerry

[jbryce1437]

The next batch of badges I thought I would highlight is those of the 'Blackwood' class frigates. The reason I chose these is that quite a few of them took their names from previous ships and therefore they retained the badge. So you have the badges for more than one ship.

However, please note that over the years the badges all changed to 'round' shapes, as depicted with Palliser. I will cover some of the more notable ones at a later stage.

Enjoy these ones, and if anyone would like a particular type of ship to be covered please feel free to comment.

Regards
Alan

Many thanks for the Type 14s Alan, been meaning to ask for Exmouth, old ships, for a while.
The Type 15s were also a large class. Served in Undaunted at a sad time - they stopped the tot when I was aboard her:(

[alanbenn]

Jim, type 15's duly noted will get a sample of them together later today.


Regards
Alan

[tonclass]

Just thought this might be of interest. Taken aboard HMS SHEFFIELD in the early 1930's.

[alanbenn]

Nice one Rik, what would you give for an original of that eh?


Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Ian, as promised in the other thread here's the badge for Hms Gibraltar.

Regards
Alan

[battlestar]

G'Day All

These are two of the new South African 209 Submarine crests that just crossed my desk. I thought I'd share. Also the crest of the RSAN (Republic of South Africa Navy)

SAS CHARLOTTE MAXEKE (S-102)

SAS QUEEN MODJADJI (S-103)

I know that are small, but I'm in the mist of seeing if I can get a friend in Cape Town to get larger versions of both pre and post 1994 crests, when and if I do, I'll let you know.

Enjoy:)

[battlestar]

Hi Allan

Ian, as promised in the other thread here's the badge for Hms Gibraltar.

Regards
Alan

Thanks Mate for the quick reply. Looks great!

[alanbenn]

The type 15's badges beginning with the class leader Hms Grenville.

There is a wide variety of designs in this class, some of the shield-shaped badges are those carried forward from previous ships with the same name.

This is only half of the class of 23 ships.


Regards
Alan

[SCRG1970]

Rik
Nice shot of Sheffields badge and unusual to see the motto displayed on what I believe is the bridge structure.

I did hear a rumour that fittings like that on the first Shiny Sheff were manufactured from Stainless Steel ( in Sheffield of course) and presented to the ship.

Regards

gerry

[jbryce1437]

Many thanks Alan, great to see those Type 15 badges. I have 24 on my list, but could be wrong:
Grenville
Kempenfelt
Rapid
Relentless
Rocket
Roebuck
Troubridge
Ulster
Ulysses
Undaunted
Undine
Urania
Urchin
Ursa
Venus
Verulam
Vigilant
Virago
Volage
Wakeful
Whirlwind
Wizard
Wrangler
Zest

[alanbenn]

Jim, you are right I missed off Kempenfelt.

Strange name for a RN ship, almost sounds German to me!

And here's the badge for correcting me on that one.
Regards
Alan

[tonclass]

Does anyone know what the 'Sheffields' motto meant ?

[alanbenn]

Rik, the motto for sheffield

Deo adjuvante proficio......With God's help I advance


Regards
Alan

[tonclass]

Cheers Alan.

[MONTY]

I don't know if this one as been posted.

Monty

[alanbenn]

Monty, thanks for posting that dockyard copy of the 'Thunderer' badge.

It is in fact the 2nd badge to be issued to the ship, it is unique in that the ship is probably the only one to have had 3 different badges officially issued to it, although badges 2 and 3 are very similar in design.

Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

The next samples of badges are those of the 'Blackswan' type Frigates.

Starting with the namesake Hms Blackswan, this was a mix-match bunch of ships most of which were later re-fitted. Hence a variety of designs.

Hms Actaeon looks a gruesome badge in this day and age, also included is Hms Modeste my dad's old ship. Hms Amethyst, quite a striking badge and also not forgetting Redpole and as one member of the forum likes to call it Hms Starling...the famous one.

Regards
Alan

[SCRG1970]

Another great set of badges Alan.

Have enclosed the Unofficial badge worn by THUNDERER prior to official sanction in 1919


Regards

Gerry

[Chris Howat]

Does anyone have a copy of the unofficial crest of HMS Starling? It was made during the war and dspicts a starling plucking a u-boat from the sea.

[alanbenn]

Sorry Chris but I don't have what you're looking for, maybe someone else may have spotted it somewhere.

Alan

[alanbenn]

The set of badges I've chosen this time should bring back a few memories for most of us because we either joined up at these establishments or paid a visit to them at some stage in our service.

Enjoy.

Any others you'd like to see, let me know.

Regards
Alan

[joseph bonnici]

nice set of badges Alan ,any class will do . thanks . Joseph

[battlestar]

G'Day All

Just cruising the threads...

I have a couple of RAN crests, my ship HMAS STALWART, HMAS AUSTRALIA (1981) and the RAN 75th anniversary 1986. I'll see if I can dig them out!

Ian

[mik43]

Agree with the comments re TP Stopfords books + addendum. As it says on the tin they are copies of the original patterns so can be considered the authority. Somewhere I have contact details, google drew a blank, so if I can find them.........!!
Mik

[mik43]

Further to my post above, I decided to try another tack with google and hit the jackpot this time!! TP Stopford's works are going electronic and are to be published on a DVD this autumn. If you are interested then www.jonty-sexton.co.uk has the details
Mik

[alanbenn]

Very interesting development there, Jonty I believe tried to do this many years ago but without success. The badges look to be in their original form with the exception of the mottos which were sadly cut away from most of the badges.

They will of course require some degree of touching up to make them perfect as I have found over the past 10 years or so.

I'm sure they will be very much in demand.

Alan

[tonclass]

Just got an email back from Jonty (Tim). They are testing the cd-rom at the moment and hope to have it released nearer the end of the year. Price will be between £25 & £29.

[astraltrader]

Only a thought but wouldn`t all this new info be better in alans thread?

[joseph bonnici]

terry i agree with you. Alan s thread of ship badges is my favourite subject and in my opinion crests and badges are in the same cathegory. keep it up Alan and thanks again Terry. Joseph

[nogrub]

Alan.
Thank you for all the badges you have shared with us.
I have one of HMS Kelly which I have not seen posted in the past.

Regards Harry23928

[alanbenn]

Harry, thanks for posting the badge of Hms Kelly. I don't think anyone had asked for it so far which is why it hasn't been posted before, plus the thread is really a relatively new one.

I have the badges for virtually every ship that was issued one, but I have to be honest and say I restrict the amount I display as they are valuable as the earlier posts indicate, the new cd being launched at some stage will sell for around £30 each.


Regards
Alan

[mik43]

Brilliant thread and a treble BZ to Alan and Rik for work already done and still to be done!!
A few of the posts have asked the question why there are two badges/crests for HMS PEMBROKE. The answer is quite simple actually. The first crest was 'awarded' to the RNB at Chatham, otherwise known as HMS PEMBROKE. As you are all aware that sadly went a long time ago. When the minesweeper HMS PEMBROKE came along not so long ago it took the heraldic arms of the City of Pembroke which were 'awarded' in 1956 I think it was, hence the two completely different crests.
Now I have a request for Alan and or Rik - do either of you have a crest for HMS VIVID. Not the present day RNR base here in Plymouth, but the original name for the RNB at Devonport back in the early 1900's.
Regards
Mik

[SCRG1970]

Mik

Not SO long ago for the closure of Pembroke it was only 1983.

Next weekend a bunch of us ( The Pembrokers ) are meeting up in Bournemouth for a 25 year reunion.

Any ex Pembrokers are welcome !!!

Regards

Gerry

[alanbenn]

Mik, I would assume this is the badge you are looking for it was the name of Hm barracks Devonport until it was renamed Drake.


Regards
Alan

[astraltrader]

Thanks Joseph. I would like to have both Alans and Riks views on whether this thread should be merged with the main one?

[alanbenn]

Terry, it's fine by me, the more the merrier...

Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

As there appears to be some interest in 'castle class' corvettes I thought it would be an idea to make my next batch of badges this subject.

Not all were issued with badges, 24 were in total.

Some of my favourites are among these, some are truly stunning artwork.

Comments appreciated...

Regards
Alan

[tonclass]

I thought about merging them the other day but got distracted. Please do the honours Terry.

By the way I was emailed by Tim Stopford today. He's nearly ready to launch the CD. Beta Test 2 will be the final commercial version and I've been promised a copy when all the final ammendments have been processed by Jonty.

Watch this space......

[SCRG1970]

Alan

Stunning is the right word !!! As I have said before together in a group really shows them off and they put some of the more dreary designs for the capital ships to shame.

Thanks for the time you put in to displaying them for the forums pleasure.


Regards

Gerry

[astraltrader]

Alan and Rik - I have moved over all the recent posts that refer to Badges - but I didnt move over all the very early ones of Odins crests as that would have gone on at the beginning of this thread and in effect changed the ownership of this thread away from alan...
I dont know what alan feels about this so I felt that this way was a sensible compromise that moves all the recent interest in crests and badges into this one truly excellent thread!
However if you two think that I should move the handful of earlier ones over as well then say so and it will be done - but as I said it would change the "ownership" of the thread!!

[alanbenn]

Makes no difference to me Terry, I don't view it as my thread just one I have an interest in and can help other members with badges if required.

Cheers
alan

[astraltrader]

OK - Alan - I will move them over as well.

[mik43]

Many thanks Alan, I already had that one, but I think that crest is the RNR one for VIVID and not the one for the original barracks at Devonport. That is the impression that I got from digging round for what turned out to be scant info on the subject a while ago. Can you confirm or otherwise please??
Mik

[alanbenn]

Mik, it is a common one to confuse people, that is the badge for Vivid and it was the RN Barracks prior to being renamed Hms Drake.

Vivid RNR badge is very similar obviously due to the connection, here's the RNR badge for comparison.


Regards
Alan

[mik43]

Brilliant, many thanks for that Alan, greatly appreciated. another request, do you have 762 and 780 squadrons crests at all?
regards
Mik

[alanbenn]

Mik, no badges for those 2 squadrons, I don't think they had a badge issued to them, were they perhaps incorporated into another squadron at some time?

Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

The next set of badges are those of the 'Loch class' frigates, my Dad served aboard Hms Loch Fyne so I was always bias toward these badges.

Like the previous set of badges some of these are truly stunning, some intriguing especially Loch Quioch which was taken from the Arms of Inverness -shire, I'm at a loss as to how many camels can be found in that area of Scotland.

There were 55 Loch class frigates, 27 were renamed as 'Bay class' and a further 10 were transferred to other navies. Some of those renamed as 'bay class' were further renamed just to add to the confusion, one being Hms Loch Glass...renamed Hms Luce bay...renamed Hms Dalrymple.

Enjoy these badges....comments appreciated.

Regards
Alan

[mik43]

Hi Alan
Thought that may be your reply! According to Sturtivant/Balance the squadron formed at Yeovilton in March 1942 and disbanded at Culdrose in December 1949. However it did disband into 761 in June '43 before reforming as 762 in March '44, which may explain it. 780 seems to have done the same routine, forming as 780, disbanding into 794 and then reforming into 760 once again. I don't know how long a squadron had to be formed before getting its crest.
anyway, thanks once again for your reply and i hope you don't mind that I've dowloaded 3 colour images to replace the b/w ones that I have.
My interest in both squadrons is that they were at Culdose when my late Dad was in charge of the aircraft workshops there, he did in fact commission and set them up.
Regards
Mik

[SCRG1970]

Great set of badges Alan.

Apparently the camel on the Inverness coat-of-arms signified the towns trade with the exotic East !

Even HMS INVERNESS didnt take that option onboard!!

Keep them coming

Regards

Gerry

[joseph bonnici]

Alan just two words STUNNING BADGES. Joseph

[jbryce1437]

Jim, you are right I missed off Kempenfelt.

Strange name for a RN ship, almost sounds German to me!

And here's the badge for correcting me on that one.
Regards
Alan

Many thanks for Kempenfelt Alan, been away for a few days and have lots of catching up to do:D

[alanbenn]

Here are the badges for the 'Loch' class that were renamed as 'Bay' class.

They are not in any particular order, the latter ones are those that were further renamed after being both Loch and Bay class.


Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

It has kindly been pointed out to me that the badge I had posted of Hms Loch Quoich had been incorrectly spelt.....Quioch, I have amended the badge in that post, so those who had downloaded it may wish to down load the corrected version...Thanks to Gerry for pointing out the error.


Regards
Alan

[joseph bonnici]

Alan fantastic badges, the surprise badge reminds me when she was here in malta and i painted its badge on her lifebuoys and crests, thanks again, Joseph

[alanbenn]

Thanks Joseph, pleased they bring back memories for you.

Next set of badges later today if I get time.


Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

The next set of badges are a sampling of ships from the Fleet support type vessels including Hms RANPURA which has recently featured in one of the threads. Obviously the list of these ships is quite large so if there are any other badges from this type of ship that you would like to see....let me know.


Regards
Alan

[vivian]

Hello Alan, another terrific set of badges as always. Thank you.

You have shown Ranpura above; is there a badge for Ranchi?

thanks and regards
Viv

[nogrub]

Alan.

Once again a wonderful set of badges,thank you.
Do you still want photographs of Ganges classes, I was an instructer there 1966 - 1968, if so I will have a search for them, my first class, I believe was one of the first Electrical classes.

Regards

Harry

[alanbenn]

Harry, yes please any class photo's are most welcome, I do trawl the internet from time to time for them and although not many come with names my hope is that anyone searching may just spot who it is they are looking for.

Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Hello Alan, another terrific set of badges as always. Thank you.

You have shown Ranpura above; is there a badge for Ranchi?

thanks and regards
Viv



Hi Viv, thank you for the kind comments, sadly Ranchi was not issued with a badge.

Regards
Alan

[jbryce1437]

Great set of crests for Loch and Bays Alan. Do you know if the crest was kept and the name changed on the crests when the ships were renamed, or if the badges were only issued after they were renamed?

[alanbenn]

Jim, I believe that the badges were issued after they were renamed, I have no badges that relate to the Loch's prior to them being renamed.

I'm currently going through my collection of Canadian Loch's, flowers etc
and hopefully will put up some photo's and the badges for them onto this thread.

Regards
Alan

[jbryce1437]

Thanks Alan, looking forward to your Canadian crests, did all of the RN Flower class have individual crests, or a generic one?
:)

[alanbenn]

Jim, sadly very few RN flower class had badges issued, those that did have a badge were in the main ships named after previous ships. There are however several unofficial ones lurking around, some are very good and really look like the real mcCoy.

Regards
Alan

[Chris Howat]

Thanks for looking for Starling's unofficial crest, Alan. I guess I shall have to draw it myself. The only copy I know exists is the one over the Wardroom fireplace, made by a Petty Officer stoker in the war. I wonder what happened to it

[alanbenn]

Here are the badges to compliment the photo's of RCN Minesweepers in the minesweepers/minelayers thread.



Regards
Alan

[vivian]

Really nice to see these Alan; a great set of badges thanks. I particularly like the Blue Heron but all are marvellous.

regards
Viv

[alanbenn]

Vivian, thanks for the comments, I also like the Blue Heron badge. I find that the RCN badges compare very favourably with the RN badges because they follow the same sort of design. There are some however that are a bit too modern for my taste, perhaps influenced by the US type badges?

Where possible I will post more badges to compliment the RCN ships I will be posting on other threads.

Thanks again, much appreciated you took the time to comment.

Regards
Alan

[joseph bonnici]

very nice badges Alan, they look similar in shape of rn badges, but the rn ones are more familiar and better addressed with due respect, still they re nice to watch, thanks Alan ,Joseph

[DJBlackburn]

Have not visited this thread for a spell, but in looking through all the superb images posted so far, I have a couple reasons to reply.

First, an earlier post of the crest of HMS Kempenfelt was accompanied by a comment about "sounding German". One of the ship classes I most enjoy seeing and reading about, are the numerous A-I class interwar destroyers.

All nine subclasses had flotilla leaders. All but one of those leaders' names appear to have been in honor of actual persons (although I have not researched these persons' importance or relevance to the RN).

At first, these flotilla leaders were deliberately named without following the same letter conventions of their "flocks":

A = Codrington
B = Keith
C = Kempenfelt (later HMCS Assinniboine)

Then beginning with the Ds, the RN reverted to "same-letter" standards and, with one exception (Exmouth), otherwise continued the naming practice:

D = Duncan
E = Exmouth
F = Faulknor
G = Grenville
H = Hardy
I = Inglefield

I believe that Kempenfelt is Anglicized from the German name "Kempenfeld" or "Kempenfeldt", and while I have not looked any further into the matter, I must assume the ship's namesake was decidedly British ;).

Second, I would like to know if there are crest/badge images available for the following ex-Brazilian British "H" destroyers:

Hurricane, Havelock, Hesperus, Harvester, and Highlander. Of these five, I am most interested in Hurricane, whose crest's description seems to follow much along the lines of HMS Vivid (posted earlier in this thread), but I do not believe the latter is quite the same.

Any help is appreciated, thanks! :)

[alanbenn]

Dj thanks for the comments, I will post the badges you have mentioned later today when I get the time, the badges were all issued to the individual ships with the exception of Hms Hurricane, which took the badge from a previously named ship. You'll see the difference in the shape of the badges, the Hurricane badge is fairly similar to that of Vivid as you mention and one would presume painted by the same artist.


Till later..
Regards
Alan

[SCRG1970]

DJ

Re HMS KEMPENFELT was named after Admiral Richard Kempenfelt 1718-1782.
His father was Swedish and he commanded HMS ROYAL GEORGE with Lord Howes Squadron at Gibraltar.

Regards

Gerry

[SCRG1970]

A few more unofficial badges prior to the Admiralty`s official recognition dating from 1917.

Regards

Gerry

[DJBlackburn]

DJ

Re HMS KEMPENFELT was named after Admiral Richard Kempenfelt 1718-1782.
Gerry

I sincerely appreciate that information, sir--thank you!

[alanbenn]

DJ, as promised here are the badges for Harvester, Havelock, Hesperus, Highlander and Hurricane.


As you can see Hurricane has the 'Shield' shape badge..this taken from the ship previously named 'Hurricane'


Regards
Alan

[SCRG1970]

Alan

On the HURRICANE badge, do you know which ship the badge was approved for ??

I have it down as approved 1940 and the only other Hurricane I can trace is a Drifter which served in 1919 and again 1939-1946.

Good badges though.

Regards

Gerry

[Chris Howat]

Here is the crest of a ship, the only one of her name. Renamed from the Madras in 1848 and broken up in 1906.
I should like to see more of these old crests - I have a book of them all dating back to the mid to late 19th century

[alanbenn]

Gerry, you may well be right, I assumed because of the shield shape it was issued around 1920-ish similar to Hms Grenville etc.

Whereas the others were issued around 1940 in the circular shape.

Regards
Alan

[SCRG1970]

Chris

Another fascinating crest especially as it dates back pre-1900. There is very little data recorded or at least available on this period and I hope you can share your collection with us.

Thanks

Gerry

[DJBlackburn]

The ex-Brazilian H-class destroyer was the first RN "Hurricane" to be officially badged/crested. There were I think two other vessels, one a small commercial boat, that bore the name but were not commissioned ships in either RM or RN service. The shield badge is the correct one for my purposes.

Thanks again!

[SCRG1970]

DJ

At the risk of being thought of as pedantic I think you should make it clear if you alter the shape or colouring of any ships badges you state this with the posting.
The issued badge is official in that it is approved by the College of Heralds in London and cannot be altered without their approval.
A statement that you have altered the badge may save any of our members downloading it assuming it is the correct badge.
I am sure that Alan will endorse this view.
Regards

gerry

[MCM Matze]

Greetings,

will post some German crests and start with some classics. Here are the coat-of-arms of the now defunct German John F. Adams class Destroyers.

Rgds Matze

[DJBlackburn]

DJ

... I think you should make it clear if you alter the shape or colouring of any ships badges you state this with the posting.

A statement that you have altered the badge may save any of our members downloading it assuming it is the correct badge.

gerry

Perhaps my explanation-- "...after fiddling around with their re-shaping in my drawing program..."--was not clear enough? If this is the case, please accept my apology.

I have removed the offending images, no harm intended.

Thanks!

[SCRG1970]

DJ

See my PM to you

Best regards

Gerry

[alanbenn]

DJ, most of the H-class were issued a 'shield-shaped' badge but not all, it would appear that those issued with a badge prior to 1940 had the 'shield' badge, those issued 1940 onwards all had the 'circular' badge.

You may want to alter those for your own purposes, I have no objections to that, however as already pointed out, displaying them may be frowned upon by the 'authorities' as they are pretty strict with the 'crown copyright' rules.

There are times when alterations can happen, such as the Hms Euryalus badge, the official badge was 'pentagonal' for the cruiser, the later frigate however had the same design but in a 'circular' badge.


Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Greetings,

will post some German crests and start with some classics. Here are the coat-of-arms of the now defunct German John F. Adams class Destroyers.

Rgds Matze


Matze, welcome to the forum, your badges of the German Navy would be most welcomed, may I ask if you would be kind enough to scan each badge individually and post them as attachments, similar to the above postings, this makes it easier for members to view them and download them if they wish.

Look forward to more of your posts.

Regards
Alan

[Linton]

The Barrow Submariners Association has a good page on submarine badges.It can be found here:
http://www.submariners.co.uk/Dits/Badges/index.php

They also have a submarine badge screensaver to download:
http://www.submariners.co.uk/Dits/Downloads/index.php

[mik43]

Alan
Your excellent work on this thread continues I'm glad to say. I notice that the design for HURRICANE bears similarities to that of VIVID, which is unusual.
Regards
Mik

[alanbenn]

The posting of the H- destroyer badges seems to have caused a little confusion, so to try and clarify things.

The request for the badges Hurricane, Highlander, Hesperus, Havelock and Harvester by DJ I posted earlier, these ships are in fact 'Havant' class destroyers and as you can see all but Hurricane was issued with a circular badge. Hms Havant was not issued with a badge despite being the class ship.

The H-CLASS were all issued with the 'shield' shape badge...those being,
Hardy...leader, Hasty,Havock, Hereward, Hero, Hostile, Hotspur, Hunter and Hyperion.

Hope this makes it a little clearer.

Regards
Alan

[Chris Howat]

Gerry, as you asked, here are some more and I will try to work my way through all of them over time so watch this space.

[Chris Howat]

I have decided to post my collection of ships crests of the Victorian era on threads on the following: Naval History/Everything else/Ships crests.

If anyone else has old crests to share, please join in.

Chris

[jbryce1437]

Some great images amongst those Canadian crests and the H class destroyers:D

[SCRG1970]

Chris

Superb quality , have you any idea of the original source of these crests. I presume the collection was put together by a printer/publisher ???

Regards

gerry

[astraltrader]

Excellent crests Chris - thank you very much for these.

[alanbenn]

Alan
Your excellent work on this thread continues I'm glad to say. I notice that the design for HURRICANE bears similarities to that of VIVID, which is unusual.
Regards
Mik


Mik, you will no doubt also have noticed the similarity with Hms Havock, I think there maybe more as well, I'll keep an eye out for them.

Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Some great images amongst those Canadian crests and the H class destroyers:D



Jim, many thanks for the comments, I will try and add to the RCN collection along with the RN badges also.

I'm still working my way through several RCN photo's at present, lots of Corvettes etc, not all had badges though.

Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Chris, fascinating crests...How big a collection is there of these badges?

Could I also be so bold to ask if you could post them a bit larger for us all.


Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Just wondering if any other forum Members had any interesting ships crests they could post. I mean the proper crests and not the very small copies or cardboard stickies that most ships use for PR.




Odin, I have only just got round to taking photo's of my badges, I have yet to paint these, one is just started to be painted, they are all from the actual moulds I have aquired.

The moulds I have so far are...Intrepid, Brazen. (both about 6" x 5")

Ambuscade, Corunna, Hermes, Albion, Leander and Dartmouth (9" x 8")

Albion, Leander and Dartmouth I have yet to put into plaster.

The photo's aren't the best and don't reflect the quality, I use porcelain plaster for the castings.

Regards
Alan

[Admhawk]

Alan,

Fantastic thread! I have just finished catching up and decided to add a few of my own.

First though, on the RCN badges. The RCN did not officially approve any ships badges until 1949, even though many ships asked for approval during WWII and prior. Any badges worn by the ships prior to 1949 are unofficial and usually designed by the crews. Some of the Ex RN ships used, kept the the RN badge, but again, unofficially.

The group you show as Minesweepers are not all minesweepers.

Blue Heron – Bird class Patrol boat, Sea Cadet unit
Chaleur – post war Bay class minesweeper
Chignecto – post war Bay class minesweeper
Comox – post war Bay class minesweeper
Cordova – ex USN minesweeper
Cormorant – Bird class Patrol boat then a Dive support ship
Cowichan – post war Bay class minesweeper
Fortune – post war Bay class minesweeper
Fundy – post war Bay class minesweeper
Gaspe – post war Bay class minesweeper
James Bay – post war Bay class minesweeper
Loon – Bird class Patrol boat
Mallard – Bird class Patrol boat
Miramichi – post war Bay class minesweeper
Quinte – post war Bay class minesweeper, Sea Cadet unit
Resolute – post war Bay class minesweeper, Sea Cadet unit
Thunder – post war Bay class minesweeper
Trinity – post war Bay class minesweeper, Sea Cadet unit
Ungava – post war Bay class minesweeper

I say post war Bay class minesweeper, because there were Bay class minesweepers during the war, some of which had the same names as above, but during the 50's, a new class of minesweeper was built in Canada called the Bay class and the badges were approved for these and not the WWII sweepers.

Here are some badges that show the differences between WWII designs and later approved designs. Note the Quinte and Cowichan WWII jacket patches vs the badges you posted.

The WWII shield shaped Beacon Hill and Restigouche images are drawn by myself.

Regards,
Darren

25260 2526125262 2526325264 2526525266
2526725268 2526925270 2527125272 25273

[joseph bonnici]

Alan im glad that your thread has become a favourite to most our friends, as i told you before its my favourite subject. next time i try to explain how a badge is created and painted on lifebuoys freehand, not an easy job, but you ll do that by experience and a steady hand. im not too technically to explain but try my best, thanks J OSEPH

[alanbenn]

Darren, thanks very much for your input to this thread, some of your badges are very interesting, the collection I have of RCN badges are all the official ones, I don't have any unofficial ones in my collection, although I like to see them.

The batch of RCN badges I posted were of the minesweepers and 4 patrol craft you mentioned which are almost identical to the RN's 'Ton' class minesweepers which I thought would have been of interest to our members but didn't actually spark much of a response....?

I look forward to more of your badges and knowledge of the Canadian Navy.

Regards
Alan

[Admhawk]

Thanks Alan, I'll help when I can.

The fact that the badges aren't official doesn't bother me. The crews wanted them to be and wore them as such, so that's good enough for me. The only reason they weren't official was because of a lack of resources at headquarters to approve them! Most times everybody from the Chief of defence down to the stoker wanted them approved. Notice on some of the WWII ones the shield was used to mimic the RN ships. Most were sent to HQ for approval and actually used for official purposes! Ships had the metal ones made up and placed on the mast or fwd of the bridge, they were put on ships letterhead and Christmas cards and jackets. All that was missing was the signature!

I'm particularly interested in the RN badges for DD's and FF's from the war to today. I've seen a few posted, but would like to see all the various classes when you have the time! (I know how long it takes!) :)

Here's an interesting one, HMS NABOB. A WWII British ship, crewed by Canadians. But it doesn't follow the normal diamond shape for other carriers and escort carriers.

25304

[Linton]

Does anybody have images of some of the unofficial badges used by somesubmarines?

[alanbenn]

Darren, forgive me but I'm lost with your term DD's and FF's....what are they?


Anyhow class of Destroyers I've chosen is 'P' class.

Pakenham, Paladin, Panther, Partridge, Pathfinder, Penn, Petard and Porcupine.


Regards
Alan

[Admhawk]

Hi Alan,

NATO terms for Destroyers and Frigates. Here are some of the more common ones.

Battleship BB
Cruisers
Gun Cruiser CA
Guided Missile Cruiser CG
Guided Missile Cruiser CGN
(Nuclear-Propulsion)
Destroyers
Destroyers DD
Guided Missile Destroyer DDG
Destroyer - Helicopter DDH
Destroyer - Escort DDE
Frigates
Frigate FF
Guided Missile Frigate FFG
Radar Picket Frigate FFR
Frigate - Helicopter FFT
Frigate - Escort FFE
Submarine Type
Submarine Attack SS
Submarine Attack SSN
(Nuclear-Powered)
Ballistic Missile Submarine SSBN

There can be cross over, like the Canadian Iroquois was referred to as DDH's, then they were modified to carry a Vertical launch missile system with Antiship missiles along with Anti Air. The change happened slowly, but now they are called DDG's even though they still have helicopters. The lines tend to be more blurred these days with multi roll ships.

Classes I'd like to see, Tribal, C, E, F, G, I, River, Type 21 to 23 and 42 and the various Leanders that haven't been covered yet. Some of the ships in the above classes have been shown, but I don't think all.

[alanbenn]

Thanks for the info Darren, all news to me, I served aboard Hms Fife a county class guided missile destroyer, never once heard anyone refer to her as a DDG. Must be the 'modern' age of referring to everything in abbreviations.

With regards to your list....it's very long. I will eventually get round to posting some but not all. My collection is too valuable to do that, I hope you will understand.

Next batch will follow soon....

Regards
Alan

[tonclass]

Alan, they are Americanisms. The USN refer to all their ships this way. The only ones I know of that are used by the RN are SSN (Submarine-Submersible-Nuclear) and SSBN (Submarine-Submersible-Ballistic-Nuclear) & LPD (Landing Platform Dock) Oh ! and the all the Landing Ship/Craft conotations.

[Linton]

A little article on the designer of some unofficial submarine badges:
Cecil Broad 1905 - 1978

by Dave Palmer.

Cecil Broad served his apprenticeship as a fitter at Devonport Dockyard. During this time he drew football cartoons for The Western Evening Herald. In 1936 he moved to Barrow-in-Furness as an Admiralty Overseer at Vickers Shipbuilding. His stamp can still be found on some of the systems on HMS Alliance.

During the Second World War shipbuilding was outstripping the capability of Chatham Dockyard to produce badges for the ships, this was further exacerbated when Churchill decreed that Submarines should have names and badges. Cecil's drawing skills soon became known and he started producing designs for vessels built at Barrow, mostly but not exclusively Submarines. These badges were carved in the shipyard and then the badges were cast. Where appropriate the designs were submitted to the Ships Badge committee as can be seen by comparing Cecil's designs with the sealed patterns, most of the designs were used as a basis for the sealed patterns with slight alterations, possibly to justify the Heralds fees. A copy of his design for Tenacious was framed and presented to Winston Churchill, and a copy of one of the Polish designs was sent to General Sikorski.

Apparently when approached by Lt. Ian Fraser to produce a design for Sigyn he pleaded pressure of work and the need to dig his two allotments, whereupon Lt. Fraser offered the services of a group of matelots to complete the latter task. Some of the original drawings are autographed on the reverse by the crews in the case of X craft and by just the officers of other submarines.

In 1961 he left Vickers and moved to Birmingham where he became a quality control 0officer checking on firms producing items for the MoD. He finally retired to Southampton in 1966.

Following is a list of badge designs he is known to have produced:-

* Alliance
* Anchorite
* Auriga
* Curie (Free French)
* Derwent
* Dzik (Polish)
* Executioner (XE1)
* Exciter (XE4)
* Excelsior (Unknown)
* Perseus (XE5)
* Platypus (X5)



* Rockwood
* Sokol (Polish)
* Sigyn (XE3)
* Tapir
* Tantalus
* Tenacious
* Teredo
* Terrapin
* Tantivy
* Tutankhamen
* Urtica



* Unbridled
* Uredd (Norwegian)
* Upstart
* Urtica
* Vampire
* Vandal
* Vengeful
* Vigorous
* Wizard
* Xerxes (XE2)
Some of his designs can be found here:
http://submariners.co.uk/Dits/Badges/broad.php

[Admhawk]

Alan, they are Americanisms.

Rik, I disagree. In the 70's the USN changed a lot of their ship designations from WWII standards to align with the NATO designations. Janes uses them in their publications and so do many other Naval publications. Aside from the Canadian Navy, I've seen them used by the Dutch, the Hellenic Navy, the Italian Navy, the Spanish Navy and the Australian Navy.

Alan, I understand. I'll be happy with whatever you post! You say you have Canadian ones, is there anything you might be missing and would like?

[alanbenn]

Darren, thank you for your comments, I don't know exactly how many badges were issued for the RCN of those that I do have the only one I need to update is HMCS Minas, if you have that it would be very much appreciated.


On the subject of the ships classifications, you may be correct in the fact that other navies use these terms, but I have to agree with Rik I'm afraid, I served throughout the 70's almost and never heard of any ships in the RN being referred to in this way....perhaps others can clarify it for us too.

Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Linton, interesting badges on the website you highlighted I have not been able to compare all the RN subs badges, but it does look as if some of his works were passed as official patterns and others obviously not.

Anchorite is one that is certainly as drawn by him and is official. (see attachment)

Unless I get to see all his others I can't say which were also passed as official patterns.

Regards
Alan

[tonclass]

Cheers Alan. I served in the 80's and the only one that came close,and got used regularly was GMD (Guided Missile Destroyer) for the 'County Class'. If you'd have said DDG we'd have all stood around scratching our heads wondering what the hell you were talking about...... I still do !!

[Admhawk]

Cheers Alan. I served in the 80's and the only one that came close,and got used regularly was GMD (Guided Missile Destroyer) for the 'County Class'. If you'd have said DDG we'd have all stood around scratching our heads wondering what the hell you were talking about...... I still do !!

I'm not surprised! After all the RN is the senior service in the UK and throughout the world!! Always a leader and never a follower! :D

Too bad your current Government doesn't see fit to treat it as such.

Here's the official Minas for Alan.

25360

[alanbenn]

Darren, thanks for the Minas badge it's a beauty....

It's not just the current Government that treats the RN so badly, it's been a long line of them, since before the Falklands conflict...

I left in 1979 when we had some 280+ frontline ships in the fleet, even then it was considered a depleted Navy.


Now getting back to the DD.....to us RN sailors that was a
Double-Diamond one of the popular beers at that time......

Regards
Alan

[mik43]

Alan
Admhawk is correct in the shorthand for vessels types - NATO is the culprit. The reasoning being that when sent in signals etc, everyone else knew what sort of vessel was being talked about. However, like you, when I see DD I automatically think of 'Double Diamond' - it 'works wonders' you know!!! For the uninitiated the advertising slogan and jingle was - A Double Diamond works wonders. And with that last comment I'll get back in my kitbag.......!!
Mik

[astraltrader]

Also those abbreviations were not used very much in photo descriptions until the mid-1990`s onward in my experience...

[Chris Howat]

To answer your questions: Gerry, The crests come from a collectors album I picked up years ago; the details on the fly are: S Taylor, June 1865, Plymouth.
Alan, Are these any bigger? the originals are small and must have come off letters. So enlarging may bring some blurring. I have approximately 100 of them and will post them bit by bit

[Chris Howat]

Some more
Chris

[alanbenn]

Chris, thanks ever so much for the enlarged images they're great.

Look forward to seeing more.


Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Cheers Terry, I have a book on RCN dates to 1980 and this does refer to ships as DD and such like in the appendix section, so obviously used by them at that time, if Mik is correct in what he says do any of our telegraphist recollect using these abbreviations?


Anyhow next batch of badges are those of the 'F' Class destroyers which by all accounts didn't fair too well during the war with only 2 of the class surviving.


Kelly, Kandahar, Kashmir, Khartoum, Kimberley, Kingston and Kipling.

Regards
Alan

[jbryce1437]

Have to agree regarding the ship types, most of the abbreviations used by NATO today were not in general use in the RN of the 60's and 70's. I recently came across a NATO list of classifications in my endeavours to update the pennant list:

The following is a list of official class designators and their meanings for United Kingdom Ships under Naval control by class. The list was taken from an Unclassified NATO document:


AFS Combat Stores Ship
AG Auxiliary, Miscellaneous
AGH Auxiliary Helicopter Support
AGS Survey Ship
AGSA Survey Ship, Polar
AGSC Survey Ship, Coastal
AOR Oiler Replenishment
ATA Tug, Ocean going, Auxiliary
CSB Combat Support Boat
CVS Aircraft Carrier, ASW
DD Destroyer
FF Frigate
LPD Amphibious Transport, Dock
LPH Amphibious Assault Ship
LSL Landing Ship, Logistic
LSU Landing Ship, Utility
MCS Mine Countermeasures Support Ship
MHC Minehunter, Coastal
MHSC Minehunter/Sweeper, Coastal
MS Minesweeper
MSC Minesweeper, Coastal
MSF Minesweeper, Fleet
NCTY Naval College Training Yacht
PB Patrol Boat
PP Patrol Vessel, General
SS Submarine
SSBN Primary Strategic Nuclear Submarine armed with Ballistic Missiles
SSG Submarine, Attack, Surface Missiles
SSK Submarine, Patrol

[HMS Bergamot]

Does anyone have the crest for, obvious really, HMS Bergamot?

[Admhawk]

Another great batch, Alan!! Thanks!

[alanbenn]

Alas, Hms Bergamot one one of the 'flower' class that was not issued with an official badge.

Regards
Alan

[SCRG1970]

Another selection of unofficial badges from the days when DDs, GMDs and FFGs were totally unknown.

Regards

gerry

[spruso]

Hi,
Some years ago (1996) I was collecting memorabilia for the RAN Museum on Garden Island. They still held all the original moulds for RAN ship's crests and would reproduce them for you at original size for about $50. They used a mix of "Araldite" that was poured into the mould and then when it had set they were hand painted to the correct pattern.

I wonder where they are now.

Cheers
Bruce

[Odin]

Thanks for posting those badges Alan. The ones that you have cast seem to have come out very well. I would be interested to see the Albion badge if you ever cast one - I worked on the design and build of the current HMS Albion, the Assault Ship.

[mik43]

Alan
I have a b/w for 'Forest Moor', do you happen to have a colour one by any chance?
Thanks
Mik

[alanbenn]

Odin, thanks for the comments, I will at some stage get round to casting one of Albion, the place I got them from had another 350+ moulds,
they wanted a £1000 for them....cheap as chips really, but more than I wanted to part with at the time.

Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Mik,
I assume you mean the 'Forest Moor' base that was at Harrogate.

I was stationed there in 1974 and got married just before I left, always get asked what was Forest moor when people see my wedding photo's and notice the cap tally.

here's the badge anyhow....

Regards
Alan

[Chris Howat]

Some more crests

[mik43]

that's the one, many thanks Alan
Mik

[SCRG1970]

Chris

Excellent post please keep them coming, thanks.

Regards
Gerry

[Linton]

A few unofficial submarine badges appear here:
http://www.seayourhistory.org.uk/component/option,com_gallery2/Itemid,450/g2_itemId,6877/

[SCRG1970]

Linton

Thanks for that . A couple I hadnt seen before.

Regards

gerry

[Putty]

Hello,
This is a really good thread!
Anyone have the badge/crest for HMS Reclaim?

Thanks

Putty/Essex

[alanbenn]

Putty, here's the badge for Hms Reclaim as requested, I also notice your avatar is the badge for Hms Chevron, I've included that badge as well with a bit more colour to it.....



Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Good to find a picture of Montclare; my father was on it during the mid to late 40s.
Does anybody have anymore pictures, or better stiil, a badge/crest?

Thanks

Mark/Essex


Mark, also spotted your posting on the other thread, so here's another version of the same pic of Montclare and the badge for you as well.

Regards
Alan

[Chris Howat]

And more crests for you all to see
Chris

[alanbenn]

More excellent badges there Chris, thanks so much for continuing to post them it's much appreciated.

Regards
Alan

[SCRG1970]

Some more superb examples Chris. The date of 1865 seems to suggest they were produced for vessels of that period some of which are quite minor and I am suprised they warranted official stationery etc.

I am trying to tie them in with issues made by the firm of Lincolns who produced crests for collectors about the same time. They produced over 450 and some of the ships are really obscure.Unfortunately I have only seen a few of these and none of the ones you have posted yet are similar.

My interest is in trying to bridge the gap between the dissappearance of figureheads and the appearance of first unofficial crests and the granting of the official badges from 1917 onwards.

I look forward to your future postings.

Regards

gerry

[Putty]

Hi Alan,

Thanks mate, the badges are superb!
I'm digging out my Dad's service record, and am hoping build a montage of all the ships/shore bases he served at, this really helps.

Best regards


Mark/Essex

[alanbenn]

The next class of badges are those of my favourite ships the 'Battle' class.

A fairly large class of ships, many of the badges follow a similar theme, some very good art work among these badges.....

Enjoy.

Regards
Alan

[joseph bonnici]

eellent batch ,well done Alan. Joseph

[SCRG1970]

Alan

Great set of badges. I do appreciate your efforts on this thread as I know how time consuming it can be.

Thanks

Gerry

[alanbenn]

Thanks for your comments Gerry and Joseph, much appreciated.

Here's a couple of my favourite action photo's of the battle class.


Regards
Alan

[kookaburra]

I have skimmed back through this vast thread, but hope this is not repeating any previous post of R.A.N. ships badges. Some, because of prior RN history of the ships, will also be old Royal Navy badges I think.

Apologize for places of creasing - they are the mounted frontispieces for George Odgers's 'The Royal Australian Navy: An illustrated History' Child and Henry Australia (1982).

I will scan any individual badges on request ... The second scan here is imperfect and can be replaced. Anyway, here they are :

[alanbenn]

Kookaburra, thanks for posting these, I have moaned in the past about the RAN's lack of help in providing these badges without wanting stupid amounts of money, as a result I have very few.

I am on the lookout for 2 books by Vic cassells, which have some of them in, but I have no idea where I can obtain the full set in a decent size to work with....any clues??

Regards
Alan

[kookaburra]

to tell the truth i was feeling a bit fed up with scanner behaving temperamentally, but this replaces the shadowed second set above. Still a bit more blurred than the original - but, as I said, I'll do individual badges if anyone is particularly interested in any particular ship.

[kookaburra]

Kookaburra, thanks for posting these, I have moaned in the past about the RAN's lack of help in providing these badges without wanting stupid amounts of money, as a result I have very few.

I am on the lookout for 2 books by Vic cassells, which have some of them in, but I have no idea where I can obtain the full set in a decent size to work with....any clues??

Regards
Alan


Alan that was odd, the Cassells name didn't ring a bell...
but here's an online auction going on for one of his books with badges at the moment, and for the next three days...

http://www.oztion.com.au/buy/auction.aspx?itemid=4133337



and another 'for sale offer' online.


http://stores.ebay.com.au/alsortzagoodstuff_COLLECTABLES_Military_W0QQfsubZ1 1570882QQfrsrcZ1


Meantime, let me ferret around here a little and see if I can come up with some more RAN badges images for you - or scan some of those off the sets already posted individually if you like. I'll have to make it a bit of a slow on-going process.

Just at this moment I think I need to close down my computer for a while and re-boot. I think some background automatic Norton virus scan is interfering with its performance, including the scanner. Bests

[kookaburra]

Kookaburra, thanks for posting these, I have moaned in the past about the RAN's lack of help in providing these badges without wanting stupid amounts of money, as a result I have very few.

I am on the lookout for 2 books by Vic cassells, which have some of them in, but I have no idea where I can obtain the full set in a decent size to work with....any clues??

Regards
Alan

Alan a mixed bag of things coming up in several posts here - but some may help you...First crests/badges of ships with names currently in service with the RAN (not complete, unfortunately, but most - 41 modern crests to come, so I'm guessing about 2/3 of current ships in service).

PLEASE NOTE: The designs of RAN ships badges were changed and modernized in 1976, so ...a current ship's badge will look slightly different to a predecessor of the same name.

You'll get a sense of that when I start posting a few match-box crests later. Here's the first 30 ...

[kookaburra]

and some more contemporary name ships in service:

[kookaburra]

What's missing from the crests above, for example, is the greatest name and badge of them all, AUSTRALIA, sadly missing from the fleet lists since 1954.

And what I would like to know from you is are the images from the Stanislav Dmitriev Collection of old RAN ships crests on Federal matchboxes any use to you, or is their print quality too rough. There are 42 of them, with some the names missing from above - i.e. Aussie and Shropshire.

If they are any use at all, my idea is that they can be cropped, or tampered with with 'paint' ...as shown below:
It is followed by two views of Battlecruiser HMAS Australia (1), and County Class heavy cruiser HMAS Australia (2)

Then, for comparative purposes, new and old crests of HMAS Anzac, with the three ships of that name...Marksman Class destroyer leader HMAS Anzac (1)
Battle Class destroyer HMAS Anzac, (11), D59, and the current Anzac Class FFH 150, HMAS Anzac (111).

Adding also the Honor Board of HMAS Hobart, which shows her crest. And I'll add the old matchbox image of Shropshire here, although I suspect you'll have it from an RN list. So, please let me know if the matchbox stuff is any use to you..

Please let me know if the

[alanbenn]

Kookaburra, thanks for the links to the book, I have already spotted a couple over here which are of interest.

Thanks for posting the other badges for viewing, I am trying to get these badges to add to my collection of RN and RCN badges but need them to be high resolution photo's, hence the reason I want the books.


Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Following on from the 'Battle class' destroyers were the 'Weapon class' an updated version of the battles....

Battleaxe, Broadsword, Crossbow and Scorpion.


Regards
Alan

[joseph bonnici]

Alan, i see the updated version are more attractive and vivacious thanks as usual . Joseph

[battlestar]

G'Day All

Allan, FYI

The Vic Cassell books are published by Kangaroo Press. Don't know if they are on line or not. But Dymocks Australia can get them through their website.

The HMAS Australia crest was redrawn in 1981 as the possiblity of buying HMS Invincible was on the Table. Several promotional products were made up just in case the sale went through.

Here is the crest and patch.

[SCRG1970]

Alan

Came across these Canadian Badges and remembered you were asking for Canadian material. Are these any good to you ? If so I will have a hunt round to see if theres anymore.

Regards

Gerry

[alanbenn]

Gerry, very interesting badges, I think they are some of the old unofficial ones, the official ones show similarities to the designs in these ones you've posted.

I have most if not all the RCN badges, but I'm still working my way through them and touching up the designs where needed...along with everything else I'm doing..and working 12 hour shifts.....roll on retirement.

Regards
Alan

[Chris Howat]

I wish you well in your quest, Gerry, and would love to know if you make a break through. Meanwhile here are some more.
Incidently, the album was started in 1865 but of course could include ships in commission earlier than that date as well as after.
Years ago I was tempted to all the few that came my way.
The book also contains crests of what I assume are Families
Chris

[alanbenn]

My next set of badges although a small set is one of my particular favourites as some where built here in the North-east.

I have the original builders photo's of 2 of the ships.

Hms Quail and Quilliam.


Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

The next set of badges are again a small set but unusual in as much as they don't follow the standard admiralty format....all obviously influenced by foreign lands.

Hope you like them....

Regards
Alan

[joseph bonnici]

Alan , lovely badges, TIPPU SULTAN ,BABUR, and TARIO served in the Pakistani navy, SUTLEY and JUMNA served in the Indian navy whilst GODAVARI and NARBADA served in the Indian and then in Pakistani navies, thanks .Joseph

[SCRG1970]

Another terrific post Chris. I have scanned a few of the LINCOLN Crests which were in an album containing College Crests, Army, Universities etc. These were sold in packets of eight to collectors for the princely sum of 3d a packet. Interesting if they coincide with any of yours.

Apologies for the quality they didnt scan too well

Regards

gerry

[SCRG1970]

Alan

Have scanned the last of the Canadian badges I could find. I didnt know they were unofficials as I havent seen the latest for those ships. Have you posted them and I missed it ??

Regards

gerry

[Chris Howat]

Very interesting indeed. None look alike though.
The postage stamp was issued in 1926 so that may date your crests to around that time. I wonder why the stamp? Was it a flotilla which visited France?
Anyway, here are some more

[SCRG1970]

Chris

I think the stamp was a red herring as there were modern bits to this album which indicated it had been passed down to a younger member at a later date.

All the crests I posted were from the same packet ( No.239) so were bought to stick in the album. Whereas yours appear to have been printed for Naval Ships. I shall continue to dig on this one ,its only taken about five years to get this far !!!

Regards

gerry

[alanbenn]

Gerry, I am still in the process of finishing my collection of RCN badges, the ones you have posted so far may have been the fore-runners of the ones now.

There is no badge for Hmcs Burlington in my collection, but I don't know if mine is the complete set, as I don't know how many were officially issued.


Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Just managed to get these RCN badges done before I get off for a few zzzz's.

As you can see from the badges Gerry has kindly posted there are some similarities to those.


More to follow in due course..

Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Having spent years re-touching the ships badges in my collection I'm now in the process of improving them further and also adding the ships motto's where applicable.

I have posted an example here and would appreciate your input as to whether it looks ok...

This will restore the badges to how they would have looked originally before the motto's were deleted by the MOD in error.


Regards
Alan

[SCRG1970]

Alan

Looks good and definitely worth the effort.

I did get a look at the original submissions when they were stored in Chatham Dockyard. The curator told me the story of how some "numpty" had cut down the original parchment size to A4 so they would fit the files in use at that time, can you imagine that ? Consequently many of the mottos and other annotations were lost !!

Regards

gerry

[alanbenn]

Gerry, it was nothing short of diabolical and a another bit of history down the pan, fortunately I have most of the motto's that were on the originals and hopefully can restore my collection to reflect them...

Pleased you like the sample, I have tried variations on the colour but this seems to stand out more and fit in with the badge surround.


Regards
Alan

[vivian]

It looks good Alan. That's a tremendous amount of work ahead of you to do them all. I expect they are all in Latin. I noticed a few posts back from Kookaburra of RAN badges that they had mottos and also that they are in English, even in the older examples from 1950's. I thought they'd have been in Latin then.

My old school motto (in Australia) that we had on our badges and blazers was in Latin in my time but I see now in their correspondence that they've gone to English instead.

Great work on the badges Alan, a super thread.

regards
Vivian

[alanbenn]

Vivian, thanks for you comments, the motto's are all in Latin but do have the english translation with them, I will try and remember to post the translations when I put the badges up on view...

However it will take some time for me to get through the collection...


Regards
Alan

PS. Abdiel badge translation is Always Faithful

[Chris Howat]

Gerry,
I think mine have all been cut off letters because they are glued into the album and most are embossed as well. Good luck with your research. Do post some more.
Amongst this batch is an unknown. I have thought of "Cricket" but unlikely as the first of that name went into service in 1906
It could be "Grasshopper" and there were two around the right time. A gunboat 1855 to 1871 and a torpedo gunboat 1887 to 1905
There were two "Gnat"s a wooden screw gunboat of 1856 to 64 and a composite screw gunvessel 1867 and wrecked a year later.
Anyone any ideas or can anyone recognise the type of insect?
Chris

[alanbenn]

The 2nd sample of the badges with motto's is attached....interestingly I never knew that Hms Aisne was not named after a battle as such despite being a battle class destroyer.

You can see from the badge she was actually named as an acronym of her motto A.I.S.N.E

Regards
Alan

[joseph bonnici]

Alan is this relevant to you , hope you like it,

[alanbenn]

Joseph, very interesting photo there....before my time so hopefully someone will give us the reasoning behind the words on the picture.


Thanks for posting it.

Regards
Alan

[Chris Howat]

And a few more. It won't take long to finish the list

[alanbenn]

Chris, thanks for all these postings they are really great..


Regards
Alan

[dave baker]

hi great thread , been researching for an old pal of mine served on the paladin see him on the top right of picture i wonder if you have that badge
regards.db

[alanbenn]

Dave, if you go back a couple of pages on this thread to post #378 you will find the badge for Paladin among the set of 'P' Class destroyer badges.



Regards
Alan

[DJBlackburn]

I have posted an example here and would appreciate your input as to whether it looks ok...

Motto looks fine, but is that Abdiel badge intended for the World War One destroyer/minelayer?

I ask, because the WW2 minelayer was not considered a destroyer and I would be surprised to find it with a destroyer's "shield" crest.

[DJBlackburn]

Just managed to get these RCN badges done before I get off for a few zzzz's.

More great images!

Can you tell me though, a bit about the crest for HMCS Ottawa? There were at least two WW2 ships by that name, possibly a third (the one known in post-war Canadian service).

The first one was an ex-C-class British interwar destroyer, and within short time that one was lost. The name was afterward given to another ex-RN destroyer (Griffin), and then finally to later ships.

Sometimes the images changed with the ships, even if only slightly, and I wondered if this beaver & log design was the same borne by those I described above. Also, did these Canadian vessels use the same official British sanctioning body, or do the Canadians have their own governmental entity to do this?

Questions and more questions, but I appreciate the help!

[SCRG1970]

Alan

re HMS AISNE. The ship was named after the Battle of the River Aisne fought in September 1914 by the British Exped. Force led by the, somesay headstrong, General Sir John Pinkstone French , this battle temporarily halted the German advance.

The red field is traditionally the colour of the British Army, the dolphins are from Sir John Frenchs Arms and the two fronds of palm signify a land victory.

The motto is formed from the spelling of the name as you rightly point out.

Hope this clarifies the origin.

Regards

Gerry

[battlestar]

G'Day All

Just thought I'd post some photos of the few crests I have.

The first crest is from 1990, and it was a replacement for one that was destroyed in a house fire. My old ship HMAS Stalwart (AD-215)

This I found at a swap meet in 2001, an 75th anniversary crest for the RAN, 1986.

This is a rare one. I had mention elsewhere in the forum

Post 418 - http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2075&page=17

tells about the possiblity of buying HMS Invincible for the RAN. Several promotional products were made up just in case the sale went through. This crest is one of those products. I found it in a store in Sydney in 2002 and on looking at the state of the book, and the faded date told me that the $30.00 I spent on it was a steal!

The last if from the Chief Mess of USS Enterprise (CVN-65), which a mate found at another swap meet a few years back!

I have one more crest, but that deserves a post to itself!

[battlestar]

G'Day All

Today I hit the motherload.

During WWII Fremantle was a major subarine base for the Americans, Dutch, and British. Submarines from Fremantle sank two thirds of Japans oilers operating in South East Asian waters.

During this time there were many great submarines that operated from Freo. Some, Like the USS HARDER, CDR Sam Dealey Commanding, never returned.

But the biggest target sunk by any submarine operating out of Fremantle, was the cruiser IJN Ashigara, a Nachi class heavy cruiser by the submarine HMS Trenchant, Cmdr A.R. Hezlet Commanding, on 7th June 1945 when Trenchant was on patrol off the Banka strait.

Today, as I was going though a house salvage yard, I came across this battered, but proud crest. Keeping my cool, I asked if anyone knew where it came from, only to be told that it was from an old house in South Fremantle, recently demolished, and it (crest) was going to be thrown out, I could take it I wished.

I WISHED! I GRABBED IT WITH BOTH HANDS AND RAN! Yes, ran, I could not believe my luck! Couldn't get out of the yard fast enough!

I'm certain this is a crest from the WWII time period of HMS Trenchant, but I'm not above asking for second opinions. Again, it is slighly damaged, but the opinions of people on this forum would be GREATLY appreciated!

[alanbenn]

Cheers Gerry, I vaguely remember the name of the General you mentioned, fascinating stuff when you look into them fully.


Thanks for all the info much appreciated.

Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Can you tell me though, a bit about the crest for HMCS Ottawa? There were at least two WW2 ships by that name, possibly a third (the one known in post-war Canadian service).

The first one was an ex-C-class British interwar destroyer, and within short time that one was lost. The name was afterward given to another ex-RN destroyer (Griffin), and then finally to later ships.

Sometimes the images changed with the ships, even if only slightly, and I wondered if this beaver & log design was the same borne by those I described above. Also, did these Canadian vessels use the same official British sanctioning body, or do the Canadians have their own governmental entity to do this?

Questions and more questions, but I appreciate the help!


DJ, To be honest I have absolutely no idea with regards to the Canadian badges....the set of badges I have were given to me by a dear friend shortly before he passed away, he was given them by a Captain of the RCN who lived in Newfoundland. I would assume the rules would be similar to the RN as they are official badges.
With regards to Abdiel..the badge is the same, carried forward to the next ship...the minelayer, as is the case with most. This changed when the introduction of new shape classifications came about and all new ships adopted the new styles, existing badges continued until the ship was scrapped/sold etc.

Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Battlestar, the badge....looks to be made of plaster or similar and therefore although old is not an original, they were usually metal, some brass and would have holes in them where they had been fixed to the boat.

The one you have is a replica but still of some age by the looks of it and if restored might fetch a few pounds/dollars but they are readily available on the internet auction sites.

Regards
Alan

[SCRG1970]

Battlestar

From the photos I would guess it had been made as a presentation crest (gizzit) as it looks as if the wire at top back was incorparated when the crest was moulded. I would guess it came from an official mould and the style of painting dates it as old, I would doubt it would have been made on Trenchant as this sort of mould would have been held on the Depot Ship/Base and produced by the Chippies as required for official presentations (or unofficial ones in return for a tot !!)

Nice badge even if it is slightly damaged, look after it and treasure it in the knowledge that there are not many of them about of that vintage.

Regards

gerry

[battlestar]

Thank you Allan and Gerry.

If it was made here in Fremantle, I figured it was onboard the depot ship HMS Maidstone , which was located here in the last years of the war, or in the workyards alongside North Quay, Fremantle Harbour.

I also went through my shipping data. After the RN submarine fleet departed for Manila PI in late July 1945, there is no record of HMS Trenchant returning to Fremantle. The current HMS Trenchant did visit in 1997, but this is not of that era.

The only other possiblity I see is that an ex-crewman brought the crest with him if any moved to Australia, and a fair few RN servicemen did.

I'm thinking of donating it to the Western Australian Maritime Museum, I know they'd been looking for a crest off Trenchant since the Naval Exhibit opened. They tried the RN, but got no reply.

[Chris Howat]

Some more Victorian crests.....

[SCRG1970]

Chris

Thanks for those. Just a shame that they are coming to an end.

Regards

Gerry

[DJBlackburn]

My belated thanks for your reply, Alan

Cheers...!

[Chris Howat]

And a few more......

[alanbenn]

My apologies for the delay but here's the badge for Hms Bridgewater...



Motto translates to....May our fortune stand.


Regards
Alan