RN Shore Training Establishment: HMS Ganges

[Batstiger]

For those people who were there!

"Cry your hearts out and remember it as it was"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUeWg3Di-4M

I shall never forget and I'm sure those others of you who were there will not.

Bob.

[herakles]

There doesn't seem to be much left now Bob - except memories.

[Batstiger]

For some pictures of earlier times see here:-

http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1182&highlight=Ganges

Bob.

[Joseph]

The first purpose built Royal Navy Wireless School at RNTE Shotley 1913

Regards Charles

[Batstiger]

Talking about training establishments can I re-introduce some of the new members to this page re HMS Ganges?

http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1182&highlight=Ganges

Cheers, Bob.

[Batstiger]

Charles, where was the RNTE in conjunction with Ganges? I don't ever recall seeing it.

Bob.

[Joseph]

Bob,

The shore establishment was named the Royal Naval Training Establishment Shotley, this had a depot ship named HMS Ganges. In January 1927 RNTE Shotley was recommissioned as HMS Ganges.

Pointer on the old wireless school, what was the building used for in your day?

Regards Charles

[Batstiger]

Charles, I was there in 1952 and being attached to the seaman side of training had nothing to do with that part of the establishment and I can truly say I don't even remember seeing the building.
Seeing as it was very close to the signal tower and seeing that Ganges trained Flagwaggers and W/T bods I should imagine it continued being used by the Communications branch.
Here is a larger section of that area.

Regards, Bob.

[Benbow]

Thank you for reminding me of those halcyon days at that wonderful holiday camp at Shotley!

The weather was always so wonderful and those kind ,patient and understanding instructors made my stay there so much more memorable.

The GI's in their offices at the end of the parade ground had unbelievable lateral vision! They were even kind enough to ask me so politely to move at speed off of their Parade ground!

We would all look forward to Friday evenings, it was even better fun, on my knees along with my fellow happy campers checking every block of parquet flooring in Benbow 27 mess at the bottom of the Long Covered Way!

I thought newspapers were for reading , not cleaning every single PAIN (pane) of glass in those mess windows!

Wrapped up in my cold black oilskin raincoat late at night over me pyjamas when the our class instructor not to impressed with our noisy sleep habits, was keen to introduce the mess to the wonders of Astronomy that we all became advanced star gazers !

Well I suppose now 43 years later it was possibly even better than I remember!

[rumrat]

I wonder what the PC brigade would make of it today, As i recall my time there in the late 60s i think in todays terms it could be construde as child abuse .
Dave

[rumrat]

A rather grainy pic of me on my pit in Blake 6 Mess half way down the long covered way.
Dave

[Benbow]

I wonder what the PC brigade would make of it today, As i recall my time there in the late 60s i think in todays terms it could be construde as child abuse .
Dave

Remember the Motto,

"Boys to Men" .............. ten seconds after you walked through that da* gate!

Abuse..............we never got enough of it !!!!

Brutal was never in the Ganges dictionary was it ?

[Joseph]

Cheers Bob,

Im sure there is a section of the community that would give a round of applause if its standards returned.

Regards Charles

[astraltrader]

A big grainy grin there Dave!:)

[Batstiger]

Pictures on the wall Dave! We never had such luxuries.
Here's my offering. Self on the right and another Wolverhampton lad Mickey Jacquemine.
The mess behind was 27 mess Anson Division, the last one on the left down the long covered way. We used to look straight out on to the estuary where ships of all sizes were moored awaiting their fates. Oh to have had a camera in those days 1952!

[rumrat]

Yeah Boys to Men that's what it says on this old GANGES mug that i keep my pens in on my desk .It's supposed to be an original that was sold off after the closure.
Dave

[Benbow]

Pictures on the wall Dave! We never had such luxuries.
Here's my offering. Self on the right and another Wolverhampton lad Mickey Jacquemine.
The mess behind was 27 mess Anson Division, the last one on the left down the long covered way. We used to look straight out on to the estuary where ships of all sizes were moored awaiting their fates. Oh to have had a camera in those days 1952!


Must have been the same mess I was in ,in 66 it was Benbow Division 27 mess.

Yup ,wish I had taken my Brownie with me!

[qprdave]

Being at Ganges in 1966. We were told that there was an Officer who was one of the survivors from the Hood. He was supposed to work in the Signal School. Can anyone verify this.

Also how many have had to run down and up Faith Hope & Charity at night for making a noise after lights out.

The Class that I was in, only did it once. That was enough

[Benbow]

Being at Ganges in 1966. We were told that there was an Officer who was one of the survivors from the Hood. He was supposed to work in the Signal School. Can anyone verify this.

Also how many have had to run down and up Faith Hope & Charity at night for making a noise after lights out.

The Class that I was in, only did it once. That was enough


Yes , I heard the same rumour in mid 66 when I was there,

I have travelled up and down F,H & C as punishment but not at night , we had the pleasure of going up and down the Long Covered way.


Does any one remember the Wall bar display for open days in 66. We had 2 set of wall bars erected on the parade ground. One morning during a practice one of the wall bars fell over as it was being erected and one chap was under the bars. An officer ran over and lifted it off of the young lad . I knew the lad who was hurt , he recovered .

I believe he was the same lad lost overboard from HMs/m Courageous on 73. I as on the Churchill and we spent the night searching for Hutch along with the Courageous off the North of Scotland in very rough weather!

[Batstiger]

Would you be a brave man today and climb round the Devil's elbow.
Faith, Hope and charity today.

Thanks to the Ganges association.

Bob.

[ceylon220]

Hi Bob not being a GANGES man I can see the significance of the names for the mast but put me out of my misery, why the steps and why charity?

[Batstiger]

These were three flights of steps used for Jankers etc.
Sadistic instructors used to make the poor Boy entry recruits double up and down them in all sorts of weathers. Usually the whole class would have to take part in a single file and often the order would be shouted out "Rear man to the front" where the poor guy at the rear had to double past his classmates to take up the lead position.
Not very nice at all and I am not exaggerating when I say that one lad actually died whilst going through this process!
Hope this answers your query.

Bob.

[Benbow]

Take a look at this new site , great photographs.

http://www.axfordsabode.org.uk/ganges.htm

[ceylon220]

These were three flights of steps used for Jankers etc.
Sadistic instructors used to make the poor Boy entry recruits double up and down them in all sorts of weathers. Usually the whole class would have to take part in a single file and often the order would be shouted out "Rear man to the front" where the poor guy at the rear had to double past his classmates to take up the lead position.
Not very nice at all and I am not exaggerating when I say that one lad actually died whilst going through this process!
Hope this answers your query.

Bob.



Sadistic instructors as you say Bob, can`t say that RALEIGH had any in my time there in 53,it was a case of picking up a fire extinguisher and doubling around the parade ground 6 times, no one died doing that thank goodness.
Thanks for answering my quiery.

[Jan Steer]

Some memories here chaps! I was at Ganges in 64/65 and as a trainee sparker I can tell you that the old RNTE building was very much in use then as the signal school. Our skipper at that time was Godfrey Place V.C. of Tirpitz attack fame but I don't remember the Hood survivor being there during my time. He may well have been at the signal school though as I seem to recall that he was a boy signalman on the Hood. Time at Ganges seems to have continued pretty much unaltered for generations of we young matelots. I remember always being hungry like most youngsters and all the scrubbing of decks, endless kit musters etc but I guess there were some good times too. I qualified as a junior coxswain and escaped to the cutters and whalers whenever I could. All these years on though I still can't see why as fifteen year old children, and volunteers too, there was any need to treat us so sadisticly. Maybe I'm just getting a bit soft as I grow older! Interestingly I got together over a weekend with some of my old Ganges class mates most of whom had not seen each other in over forty years and everyone of us felt exactly the same way. Jan Steer

[Batstiger]

Here are four more pictures of Ganges that I don't think I have posted before.

Cheers, Bob.

[Jan Steer]

When I was training at Ganges we were told of one lad who had fallen from the mast, hit the net, bounced and disappeared through the post office roof!
Can any of you old salts shed any light on this? Any truth there or was it just a story told to frighten young lads about to climb the mast? Anyone who had hit that steel mesh would more than likely have gone right through and come out the otherside looking like chips I would have thought!!
Jan Steer

[Batstiger]

I had heard the same story Jan but cannot vouch for the authenticity of it!

Bob.

[Batstiger]

This is the sorry state of affairs that the once proud place is now in.

Bob.

[Jan Steer]

Bob I'm unbelievably shocked by the state of the Ganges mast. I understood that it was listed and was to stand as a proud monument to the many thousands of men who gave themselves to the service of this country. At the moment it is a national disgrace!
Jan

[David Shipton]

Jan

This illustrates the lack of any thought for our history and heritage by our political masters and the pc brigade who don't want to admit that our Services have kept them safe for so many hundreds of years as it goes against their pacifist views. A perfect example of how we are thought of is the incident this week when a pongo was refused a bed for the night at a hotel because he was a serviceman. Now if he had been an "ethnic minority" he'd have been able to sue them for thousands. (Sorry for the rant)

I drove through Mercury about eight years ago and was shocked at the state of it - very run down and looking like a ghost town. It was a very sad sight. I had some good times there during many courses and when I finally went back to do my SD C course I was lucky enough to have a cabin in the front of the main house overlooking the ornamental garden - what luxury.

You must remember the Thursday night dances when the Wrens bused up from Soberton Towers - great fun. Also being a Pinkie Runner and legging it down to the Pinkie in Soberton - beer and spirits on pay week and scrumpy on a blank week. Also running the gauntlet of the duty because you hadn't put your station card in.

It changed a lot when the Wrens moved to Mercury and there were dances and discos every night. Mind you it was still better than being in Collingrad - the thought of that brings shivers to my spine!

[mik43]

Like the many comments posted about the state of our heritage buildings etc, I agree completely that it is nigh on disgusting, well actually I'll amend that, it is disgusting that they are not treated with the TLC they deserve. That they are not looked after is no fault of the poor MOD Property Manager, a civilian, of the appropriate establishment where they are located. For as long as I can remember, going way back to the days of yesteryear, said officer has always been tasked to make a specific amount of money in his pot cover all the work needs of the buildings on his patch. However for the same period all establishments have had to make 'savings' in their budgets. Regretably the first budget which is looked at to contribute huge savings is the property maintenance budget - can that be left for a bit longer before it really needs to be repaired happens with monotenous regularity. The fall out of this is that 'heritage' work is way down the list as the Property Manager tries his level best to make sure that the 'live' buildings are reasonably habitable, not always with the success that he wishes to achieve. I believe that now the funding for all heritage work is held by a central budget holder in Defence Estates and not by each establishments Property Manager. But like all areas of the public sector they have saving targets to meet! Going round in ever decreasing circles and disappearing up its own chuff piece springs to mind!!
I hope that my little rant, for which I don't apologise for, explains why things aren't being done - in the end it all comes down to HMG.
Mik

[astraltrader]

Well said Mik. In total agreement with all that you said.

[Jan Steer]

An interesting point Mik and boldly stated. Of course lack of money is a major problem; it always is. As said department is doing its best to stretch a little a long way I shall watch with interest to see if Belfast is allowed to sink at its moorings or the Victory to just rot away!
regards
Jan

[David Shipton]

You can tell how short of money they are - HMS Victory's refit still hasn't been finished - how long has she been in dry dock??:D

Incidently Jan. My wife and I think that we know you. She thinks that you were a Kelly Squadron instructor in the late 70's. She was the Wrens training officer - 2nd Officer Mary Mills - and I was an RS in Kelly before I went to Dartmouth in 79.

[mik43]

Nice one David!!! And things haven't got any better with HMS V's refit since all that sort of thing got outsourced to the private sector..........!!!
Mik

[Batstiger]

The latest sad picture from the late HMS Ganges.

Bob.

[Jan Steer]

Disturbing!!
Jan

[David Shipton]

It would appear that the government would rather spend money on maintaining fat cats' life styles than on our heritage!

[bluestreak]

QPR Dave & Benbow, that 2 ringer was Lt Ted Briggs. He was an 18 year old signalman on the Hood when she went down. He was one of three survivors. He died last week aged 85.

[Uncle Albert]

Although I trained at St Vincent, I visited Ganges for the inter establishment sports. My abiding memory of Ganges, was of boys walking around with all their pockets sewn up. Apparantly, if you were caught with your hands in your pockets, you had to sew up the pockets. If you were caught with your shirt pockets undone or buttons missing, you had to sew them up as well. I remember seeing people walking around carrying school satchels, because all their pockets had been sewn up. And I thought Vincent was hard!

[qprdave]

I applied to be in the Comms. Branch, but couldn't fail my N.A.M.E.T. Even though I tried three times. So I had to be a T.A.S. Ape!!!!!

[Batstiger]

Four more pictures of the disintergrating mast at HMS Ganges.

Pictures from Joss HMS Ganges association.

Bob.

[Batstiger]

Here are a couple of pictures taken of the Ganges mast prior to the previous ones.
Three of them will give people who have never climbed the mast an insight as to how it looks from aloft.

Cheers, Bob.

[astraltrader]

I dont know if anyone would be interested but here is a link to some sad recent photographs of what remains of Ganges...

http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34066

[alanbenn]

So Tragic, and the mast is supposed to have 'listed building' status.

Considering it has trained boys since early 1900's it's a disgrace it wasn't kept for some use. I know it was a police training base at one time.

The swimming pool was my favourite place, I was in the 'ganges' water polo team.

Thanks for the link Terry.

Regards
Alan

[astraltrader]

A pleasure to bring them to you Alan if not a pleasure to see the state it has now become.

Like yourself I am utterly amazed at how it can have been allowed to deteriorate into this. Surely some use could have been made of it - maybe could still be??

Is anyone clued up as to what the future might hold??

[Francis Stanley]

Jan,
We matelots are a different breed, as you say, and I'm very proud of that fact. We always used to grumble about "bloody civvies" and now that I am one I still do.

Oh poo, another rant - sorry guys!

My dad Also a Ganges boy used to say "The navy was never the same when they let bloody civvies join!"

He was there in 1923 and I went there in 1971, when he visited on passing out day he said that very little had changed. well its changed now alright.

I was in Keppel division the "Blue mansions" a bunch of corrugated huts. I remember on a sunday afternoon in winter laying on my pit with an overcoat on as it was so cold there was nowhere else to go to warm up.

I did hear that when Ganges closed mid seventies the establishment was offered up as a Site for a young odffenders facility but was turned down because it wasn't up to standard for the little darlings.

[harry.gibbon]

Well folks,

I am attempting to keep the memory of said Training Establishment to the Fore!!! as witness my Signature... it reflects what is an everlasting memory of over zealous PTI's keeping us on the move or as they would see it "warming us up" !!

Little h

PS
I could have included:-
"from the halt to the halt on the left form squad" etc etc
or...
"at the double lad... you dont walk across my parade ground"
or
"it's Shotley routine for you lot if you don't buck up""

They said it was character building!!

Ahhhhh

[harry.gibbon]

Come on then guys... who did do a week of Shotley routine?

I recall watching a class of unfortunates standing at the counter for their nosh in the CMG doubling on the spot!!

T'was enough to NEARLY put you off doing anything wrong;)

Our Mess, Keppel 7 formerly Hawke Div'n, got an unexpected but probably warranted trip or three around the sports track in the black of night, in pajamas, in boots, with oilskins on, .... and ... you couldn't have guessed it ... our mattresses folded over our heads!!!

Nobody broke before the duty PO ... we were sparkers and buntins ... guess who had us up to that then?

Little h

[alanbenn]

Our Mess, Keppel 7 formerly Hawke Div'n, got an unexpected but probably warranted trip or three around the sports track in the black of night, in pajamas, in boots, with oilskins on, .... and ... you couldn't have guessed it ... our mattresses folded over our heads!!!




Well, whoever he was he gave it to you easy....around the sports track!!

It used to be up and down Faith, Hope and Charity with all of the above until you gave up!

Regards
Alan

[qprdave]

It used to be up and down Faith, Hope and Charity with all of the above until you gave up!

Been there and done it! Never did it again

[Macadian]

It used to be up and down Faith, Hope and Charity with all of the above until you gave up!

Been there and done it! Never did it again

I managed to avoid Ganges (did my training at HMS Raleigh) until '72' when I was drafted there as an Instructor. Used to watch those lads scramble up that mast and shiver...better them than me! It was a good draft but things were a changing in the Mob, not least the changes re initial engagement of entrants to HM Forces (could leave the service after a few months if they decided they did not like it) and the raising of the school leaving age to 16, which I was told sounded the death knell of HMS Ganges.

[Jan Steer]

I've just viewed your posted YouTube Bob. I'm sad to see it in such a state but I guess nothing is ever forever.

Best wishes
Jan

[harry.gibbon]

Faith, Hope & Charity was for you really bad un's, which my lot clearly were not!!!:);) and you will note that our lot didn't 'crack' or give up!

Did do the:-
'bunny hops' with broom handle at back of knees down covered way though.
and
those dreadful 'star jumps' were completely knackering.

The mess raids were always a laugh! especially in the Hawke Division tin huts if you were the upstairs mess.

Little h

[Francis Stanley]

Yep
Did the oilskins and Faith Hope & Charity bit.

One that sticks in my mind was the night before a Final kit muster to become Junior seaman fist class some one in our mess broke a spare bed by jumping on it and wouldn't "fess" up.
So our CPO instructor had us muster outside, in the rain, in varieties of all of the kit that we had prepared for our muster. He gave us an impossibly short time to get there in the various rigs and when somone was late, as there inevitably were, he made us double 'round the parade ground. needless to say we all failed our kit inspections and had rescrubs and punishments for having our kit in such a poor state.
The culprit finally confessed (too late) after the threat of a good kicking from the rest of us.

We finaly became Junior seaman first class (star) a few weeks later .

Dear mum, I have just been rated Junior seaman first class (star)
Dear Son, Be kind to your men!

[mike mayer]

How about clearing the Shotley Road of snow with your tooth brush! I remember being told that you don't walk on my Parade Gound you F------g FLY who do you think you are Move yourself BOY!! How, having a bit of toast away from the CMG, to be caught by rather portly RPO Ford who the took pleasure in rubbing the offending piece of toast into pulp all over your white front. Strewth I can feel those crumbs now nearly 50yrs on.

[Mousey]

Calling all Ganges Boys. Fall in. Record your names on this thread and lets see how many of us are on this great site?

[mike mayer]

Calling all Ganges Boys. Fall in. Record your names on this thread and lets see how many of us are on this great site?

Better still your name your recruitment etc and date joined .

[Blaydon]

there is already a thread for that herehttp://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1268&highlight=ganges

[harry.gibbon]

Mousey, hello there...

Checked your posts to date and note you joined Ganges 1949

Your latest post ... is it a hi-jack? ... too many of them off Somalia at the moment!! .. plenty of ex Ganges on this forum ... it eeks out in posts over a period of time... proud lads all ... but I dont think a register of same is necessary on here with all respect!!!

Little h

[Mousey]

Better still your name your recruitment etc and date joined . 4.1.49 Annexe to Gr 19 Griffin 213 Class. Took a 'while' to find yr original!

[Mousey]

there is already a thread for that herehttp://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1268&highlight=gangesThank you Sir. Live and learn, especially the latter in my case.

[Blaydon]

That is quite all right , thougt you would like to see what was already here and introduce yourself there.

[Fairlead]

I joined GANGES on 16 Mar 54 - 392 with ChiefTel RAVEN as my instructor - backclassed to 212 (morse!) which was good news as I then had PO Tel THOMPSON (Rocky) as my instructor - He went on to be a Commander.
My claims to fame at Ganges - First Boy to win the NRA Silver Medal for 14 years, and won the Buzzard Trophy later - I still shoot. Ganges Sailing Colours and winner of the Enwright Trophy (after Boy Cook left!).
Retired from RN 40 years later as a Lt Cdr.

Fairlead

[qprdave]

Well...Fairlead

You certainly did very well at Ganges. I'm glad that you weren't there when I was (1966). They might have expected all of us to be that good!!!!!!!

[qprdave]

Whilst at Ganges we were all issued with black Garters to hold up our football socks. A Junior in my mess hadn't sewn his chin stay and when we were going to do rifle drill, he sort of, panicked. One guy suggested that he put his garter around his head and then put his cap on. It looked quite impressive, until, on the parade graound, a gust of wind blew his cap off. Our Instuctor went over to him and hardly controlling himself from laughing grabbed hold of him and escorted him around all the other classes that were there. Everyone thought it was great fun, except us when they returned. Six times around the parade ground with a .303 above our head. All chin stays were sewn in after that.

[gunnersmate]

Greeting's shipmates,
I joined Ganges June 54, and one thing that I thought was a complete and utter waste of time was - being issued with brown canvas shoes, and having to buy a tin of black boot polish and make them black. I suppose it was character building along with all the other bull. Still, I would not have missed it for anything.
Baz.

[harry.gibbon]

Where's Mouseys' contribution in this Thread!!!! :confused:

Little h

[qprdave]

Reading your experiences of Ganges in the 50s and before, has proved one thing. I must have got lost between Liverpool Street and Shotley Gate and ended up in Suffolk's version of the Savoy!!!!!!!!!

[qprdave]

Re Mousey

I think he went over to the Annexe to give the sprogs a hard time. He will be back when the bar opens!!!!!!!!

[Jan Steer]

Like everyone else I have good and bad memories of the place - mostly good.
One thing that sticks in my mind is the memory of how we were woken up in the morning: CRS 'Basher' Briggs, our class instructor, would hurl the mess dustbin the length of the messdeck and this would be followed by references to our supposed illegitimate births issued in stentorian tones. Nobody was ever accused of being slack to obey when 'Basher' was around!
I have vivid memories too of learning to touch-type at the signal school. All the keys were blacked out so that we couldn't see what letters we were hitting even if we wanted to. By playing records to the class and us hitting the keys to the beat our typing speed gradually increased. The music was, in the main, dire and we all looked forward to hearing the one record we enjoyed. It was by a group called The Beatles. I wonder whatever happened to them.


Keep smiling
Jan

[Vern53]

Phots of mum's dad when stationed at Ganges in the 20's

[Benbow]

Ganges made Butlins seem like a holiday camp.

Where are you Stoker Chief Petty Officer Perrin ?

Boys to men.......in 10 seconds....... after entering the Main gate was like entering a time warp.

Proud to have been a Ganges boy , well what I mean is ,I survived Ganges and Chief Perrin.

[benbow30]

Joined Ganges July 10th. 1951 Annexe Yeoman Howard then Benbow division 11 Class 30 Mess C.P.O. G.I. Bill Boddy, and P.O. Windy Blizzard who was a T.A.S.I.
Benbow30

[qprdave]

Ganges wasn't that bad in my opinion. Once a 15 year old got over homesickness and not having Mum around to do everything for you. We didn't know any different. All we know was that by getting first class meant more privileges and knowing when we went to our "trade" Establishment it would be even better. Don't know how I would have felt if I went back there after 5 or 6 years in the "proper" navy.

We had good instructors (except the Faith Hope & Charity episodes) P/O Eggy Bowen and another whose name escapes me we called him Snozzle as he had the biggest nose that I have ever seen. Friday night routine and getting on your hands and knees with your boot brush and polishing the wooden floor block by block (Parquet) was a bit of a grind. When we got to the door, we dreaded the "Right. Back up to the top" and start again.

Passing the swimming test wasn't funny. I was never a good swimmer. Failed first time so it was, up at 5.30am and swimming until we passed the test. I assure you it did't take long for us to pass!!!!!

Work ship.... Did it twice. The first time was in the C.M.G. Central Messing Galley. Not a good job. washing the floors after every meal and preparing for the next meal. The next job was Mail Runner. Great little job walking around the Establishment delivering the internal mail to the Offices and Div Offices. Nobody bothered you, you could take as long as you wanted. The Mail Office was run by Civvy's they were all oldish (mind you even 30 somethings seemed old to us 15year olds) and there was very little discipline which was great.


Climbing the mast was a bit daunting. Never got higher that the "Cow Horns" No way was I going to shin up the pole to the button!!!!! We did the Mast Manning for Parent's Day and that year Blue Peter came down and covered it.

Going on leave meant getting up at 3.00am and leaving there at 4.00am by bus to Ipswich for the special trains that left there to all parts of the country. We didn't mind the early rising as we were going home!!!!

Divisions were a bit of a bind. Doing the march past and dreading the little note that a runner delivered to the Instructor from the Commander and worried that it said "Around again"

I did enjoy the sports at Ganges. I played Rugby for the Division and Cricket for Ganges. I enjoyed the cricket as it meant that we could get out into the real world for the afternoon to play Schools etc.

[qprdave]

Joined Ganges 12th September 1966. Annexe then Duncan 13 Mess

[Benbow]

I think it was John Noakes from BP who came to climb the mast ?

I remember a rumour Radio Caroline was supposed to be out to sea off of Felixstowe.

[Benbow]

We had a right one as our instructor! I think it was John Noakes from BP who climbed the mast ?

I think a lot of folk from those days had the hots for Valerie Singleton !

I remember a rumour Radio Caroline was supposed to be out to sea off of Felixstowe. I did enjoy sailing and pulling the 32 cutters around Harwich harbour.

There was a lot of Lightships anchored in the harbour to.

[qprdave]

Thats right Benbow, it was. I knew the John bit but couldn't remember his surname. He certainly had guts to get to the Button. Were you there at that time? I was on the mast with him but a lot lower.

[qprdave]

"I remember a rumour Radio Caroline was supposed to be out to sea off of Felixstowe."

Caroline was just off the coast at Frinton on Sea. Not far away

[Benbow]

Thats right Benbow, it was. I knew the John bit but couldn't remember his surname. He certainly had guts to get to the Button. Were you there at that time? I was on the mast with him but a lot lower.


I left Ganges in mid 67 to join HMS Diamond.in Chatham. Did John Noakes have his dog Shep with him ?

[qprdave]

Can't remember Shep being there

I left in August '67

[Benbow]

I think thats when I left for Raleigh for a few weeks then onto Chatham and the real navy.

We were in the last mess on the left at the bottom of the LCW. Benbow Division.

[Derek Dicker]

Yes the memories come flooding back.
Joined Ganges May 7th 1957, accommodated at the annex Thrywitt one mess, initially joined as a boy seaman, after the usual five weeks having a mixture of drill and sewing all our kit with red silk thread, marching over to the main establishment for a drop of mast climbing, I joined the main establishment in Benbow division under the loud mouth of CPO(GI) Dolly Gray.
What a tyrant he was. But what a slice of luck, he came into the mess one day and asked in his usual dollset tones 'who wanted to be a communicator'.
me I said lying through my back teeth, 'report to signal school' there I was, a boy signalman not a boy seaman.
Back classed into Anson Division 22 mess with CPO(Tel) Foxy Marshall and Yeoman Jack Dempsey (later 2.1/2 I believe). What can I say about Foxy, one of his favorite tasks was to put a poor grovelling trainee into the big shinny dustbins having to shout out I am Rubbish. What can I do get away from this madman, I know I'll join the bugle band, off I went kitted out with a tiger skin and tenner drum, at least it got me away from morning divisions.
Eventually qualified as Junior Signalman and left Ganges in November 1958 to join the real navy onboard Ulysses.
Met up with Dolly Gray at HMS Cambridge, gunnery school Wembury, prior to my demob. Oh yes he did remember me, had a few words about the whys and wherefores of leaving his class. Happy days.

Derek

[Fairlead]

Hi Derek,
Sadly, Lt. Cdr Jack Dempsey died while still serving, at HMS MERCURY - I believe it was 1979, a really super guy that everyone liked.

Fairlead

[Derek Dicker]

Hi Fairlead, sorry to hear about Jack if may call him that, yes he was a true gentleman, remember going sailing or pulling with him as a class, always got the blue liners out, Im sure all who knew him will be sad of his demise..

Derek (301 class buntings)

[Ednamay]

My dad joined Ganges on 1st April 1912 (so he always said - and it was in his prayer book). He told tales about the Button Boy, a bit hairy in those days.
He did well in gunnery so was sent on to Whale Island, where his brother was already based - they were from a family of gamekeepers so they had 'gunner's eye'.
He was drafted to Ganges (as a recalled pensioner) in the 1940s and worked with a lot of recruits from Newfoundland, who could do magic with small boats.
He and his oppo found and nourished a walnut tree (we had pickled walnuts for Christmas!) and they were also involved in keeping hens - don't know whether they started it or inherited it, but it provided a good few eggs to supplement the wartime diet (and also a few Christmas birds for staff to take home, our was called Cardinal Wolsey because he was red, had very long legs, and a horrendous voice!)
Anyone go back to those days??

[John Alfred Douglas]

My Dad was a cook there in 1944 Afred W Douglas from the I O Man after he came back from the Med
John Douglas

[Dave Hutson]

Hi Jan, qprdave & Fairlead + all others,

Big memories of "Boy to Man School"

Me, 1953 Blake - Instructors POTEL's Danny Kaye and Buck Rogers - thought they were ******* some the time but when I became an Instructor myself began to appreciate their frustrations. Did the Shotley Routine bit and agree
once was enough and never again. Blacked out typewriters were a cow but think how quickly you put together threads today - have pity on the deckapes and klankies - only joking fellas. Keep them coming.
Aye....... Dave

[Scratcher]

1959,I wonder if anyone remembers the Field Gun up and down Laundry Hill.After about two hours it got to be quite hard.Usually it came after Faith,Hope and Charity but before Shotley Routine.We must have been fit in those days.

[harry.gibbon]

Yep and none of it came under any 'No.' of nourishment:p... t'was just a kind of character building:) or retribution if I'm honest;), but what the hell with 1800 to 2000'ish youngsters - there was bound to be a little misbehaving by those of us who weren't in the 1st team in sports. 2nd XI just left you with a little unburnt extra energy lets say!!!:rolleyes:

Little h

[Dave Hutson]

Hi all,

Remember work ship weeks - worst job [coalship] mid acceptable [tin crushing] best [Captain's house party].
Here in Guzz we were honoured to have Captain Franks living in Dartmouth and some of boys who were CHP in Ganges carried on at his Garden until sadly he Crossed the Bar last year and they were all in their 70's then.

Never got to do CHP but did have two whacks of tin crushing.

Dave H

[Fairlead]

My memory of CHP (to Capt The Earl Cairns) was peeling potatoes then shaping them perfectly round the size of a penny (the d type of course) what a waste!

Fairlead

[tonclass]

HMS GANGES & GANGES OLD BOYS threads merged.

[TrotOneLower]

Parents Day, 1965........I be up there somewhere.

[Scurs]

If you can't beat 'em...........join 'em..........Annexe 7th January 1957......lord knows name of mess, first one on right.
Over "Main"............Blake 7 Mess, Long Covered Way.
Instructors, CPO "Pusser" Brotherton and PO "Percy" Peram.
I think we were 124 class ..........Seamen anyhow. Opposite side of mess were Air Mechs and Stokers.

Remember getting kit............"Boots, football"............."But I don't play football, I play.........", "BOOTS FOOTBALL". Don't think they ever got used. Played Hockey for Ganges 2nd XI and Blake Division though.

[harry.gibbon]

Ganges lads... attention ... you need to have a look see at the Raleigh thread there's revolting going on me thinks...

Seems they might like to encourage a few crash drafts (of our raiding party) back here to the Shotley thread!!!;):p:rolleyes::D

Little h

[TrotOneLower]

76 (Monster) Recruitment April 1965. Annexe; Eagle Mess, CPO Brotherton and JI V Edwards, who I met again whilst in Flintham. He was then the Skipper of Dittisham.
Hawke 48, then 49 mess. Joint Class Hawke 236/7, Cy Madden and RS Adams.
Hawke Cross Country, Water Polo and Rugby. Ganges XV Rugby.
Joined the Bugle Band, and remained as long as I could carry the Leper status. Which was not too long.

[harry.gibbon]

Feb 58 Annexe top r/h corner then over to Main (already advised)Hawke/Keppel.

2 XI soccer, x country (7 miles), 440/880yds track & field.

some pics:-


Little h

[sumochipmonk]

I joined Ganges on the 12th August 1968 04 recruitment as a JASA in Frobisher 940 class which lasted 2 weeks when they gave another eye test as the doctor in Glasgow said I was short sighted in the left eye and I was transfered to the Seamanship class in Keppel 1 mess. Many years later I found both doctors in Glasgow and Ganges got it wrong I was short sighted in the right eye. I have included my Class photo I'm the handsome one 3rd left back row and the programme from the 1969 Parent's Day

[qprdave]

Sumo
What was the name of your D.O. He looks very familiar. Might have been my D.O in Duncan Div. 1966/67

[sumochipmonk]

I'm sorry but I cannot remember his name as I have a crap memory for names but I can always remember a face from the past hence when I meet someone from the past I always use that age old scottish term of endearment '' Hi Ya buggerlugs hows it hanging''

[mikem]

Reading your accounts of when you was there is in some cases mind blowing, hearing what some went through and how it turned you out, seems like that this Ara should be returned to it might do the youngsters of today some good.
I was Alas never in the Navy not through lack of trying, but i did go to Ganges on several occasions with the sea cadets both when it was open and after it closed, and i must admit even spending just a weekend there was inspiring to say the least, do not know if i could have been there weeks, but would love to had a chance.
It is a shame it had to close and end up like it is today, i still belive that we should have a naval base in the east,as there were a lot of you young lads who came from the eastern part of the country.

[qprdave]

In my opinion Ganges wasn't that bad, although as we progressed from there to our specialist training and then to our first ship things got better.

It certainly changed me. It did not start me smoking (Surprisingly at 15 we were allowed to smoke as long as it was in the drying room) or start me drinking. Those two things happened later when I met up with A/Bs & L/S and they dragged me down to their standard.

Ganges taught me how to look after myself and the discipline that got me through my time in the navy and after without ending up in D.Q.s or Prison. Ganges taught me to respect other people and how to live in close proximity to others. Ganges taught me how to swim and gave me the chance play Rugby and Cricket and mess about in boats. Ganges frightened me when looking up the mast and being told to start climbing. Although only the brave or foolhardy ever attempted to get to the button.

There was nothing like the excitement that us boys had when we were woken up at 3.30am to go home on leave and bussed to Ipswich to get our respective trains.

We felt big as we marched from the Annexe to the Main Establishment only to be knocked back when we found out that we were the lowest of the low and had to wait for new recruitments to come up behind us to give is, in today's terms, "Street Cred"

And didn't we feel big when we were issued with our "Sea Suits" (Nos. 1s) and those windproof/showerproof jackets, and returned our oilskins, and we wore them even when it was hot and sunny.

Boy did we feel big when we were the senior recruitment!!! Only to be knocked down again as soon as we reached our specialist training.

Didn't we feel good running around the parade ground with our .303 rifle above our heads!!, Marching to the Gym in our white sports gear, trying to march and hop over the puddles and then someone treading on our newly blanco'd plimsolls, Then the kind, gentle and friendly P.T.I.s said, "It's OK son, it could happen to anyone. But seeing it happened to you, go and hang off the wall bars for 15 minutes.

Yes, those were the days

[TrotOneLower]

The last breakfast before leaving for Harwich and the train south. Still wearing the nylon jacket.

Everybody up, standby your beds, attache cases at arms lenght, boots on attache cases, on yer lockers, on oilskins and boots fall-in on the parade ground. Ubble 'arch until they thought you were tired enough to fall instantly asleep.

Milk in the summer, kai in the winter, and rock cakes that could have been used as shooting skeets.

We were super fit, and nothing could touch us. Well, most of us anyway. Some did, of course, fall by the wayside. But we got through, and weren't we the business marching past, on our passing-out parade, in our brand spanking new Billy Bernard's "Sea Suits", and a shiny gold branch badges.

[qprdave]

"Milk in the summer, kai in the winter, and rock cakes that could have been used as shooting skeets"

Forgot all about that. And two of us detailed off to go and collect them

[qprdave]

Fallen in outside the Mess while the instructors walked up and down and emptied out any lockers that wasn't up to standard or the bedding strewn over the floor if they weren't Barracked tidy enough

[harry.gibbon]

Marchin on the grass for the Queens Birthday Review QBR behind Nelson Hall and in front of the CMG... Loads of echo off the buildings from the Bootnecks band, and deafening reverbations underfoot :D:D:D

Oh and the standby parties, each division, to pick up the fallen and depending on yer height the third one stepped into the ranks.

Little h

[qprdave]

Work ship in the Screamer (Galley, Dining Room). Mopping the floor never seemed to end.

Getting up at 5.30am for extra swimming lessons after failing the test.

[TrotOneLower]

No left turn or right wheel for Comms classes. It was Turn Starboard or Corpen something, right arm in the air, execute, bring the arm smartly down, and make the move.

[harry.gibbon]

Work ship in the Screamer (Galley, Dining Room). Mopping the floor never seemed to end.

Getting up at 5.30am for extra swimming lessons after failing the test.
Yeh CMG ... never worked out why when tables were wiped we put chairs on em... straight off the dirty deck ... must have been to build up immunity to muck. They did it in Merc's as well if I remember.

[mik43]

I've asked this question before whenever it has come up in converstation(!) and I've still not had an answer - why is KAI called KAI - assuming that is the correct spelling??

Mik

[qprdave]

To tell you the honest truth. I don't know and I am sure many here don't know either. It was something that we learned when we joined. And just continued to call it that. I am sure that there were a few explainations but you would just have to take your pick.

[TrotOneLower]

There's something to think about. Kai in Cantonese can mean baby/boy, as in Kai Tai: boy-girl. Or in a small ship, the baby chef, if an LEP would be known as Kai.
In the AMS Vol I, it is spelled Ki, and states that the origin is "obscure".

Back on the search.....

[alanbenn]

New entry division....June 1971. Ashanti mess was the first mess in the 'short covered way' the next recruitment moved back over to the annexe after it had been refurbished...for want of a better word.

I'm 4th from the right in the centre row.

The lad sitting next to the CPO only stayed in a couple of years, left after his 1st sea-going draft, he lives just around the corner from me now, not that I see him that often.

Of course at this stage we were a mix of everything, some 'greenies, stokers, seamen, wasn't until we moved into the main division we were put into our respective classes and divisions.

And the old grey cells were playing up previously when I said I was in Blake 8 mess, found a letter to my Dad and it had Blake 7 mess on it.

So I was totally wrong, Blake 7 WAS on the left side of long covered way, as you've all been telling me.:o

Regards
Alan

[Batstiger]

Nice picture Alan.

Here are a couple from my days in 52/53.

1. May 6th intake in the Annexe. When did the 12" gaiters go out? I'm far right second row.

2. 187 class in sports gear in the annexe. I'm the bit of skin front left.

3. 187 class the day we passed out, I'm second from right middle row.

4. The whole of Anson 27 messon the day we passed out, I'm far right
second row.

5. Ganges on the point in the distance, a few ex wartime ships to the fore
awaiting their fate.

6. The top of the long covered way, a bit before my time!

Regards, Bob.

[qprdave]

OK Guys

I want to know the class and names of the ships in the pic that Bob has posted. I know that you can do it!!!!!!!!!!!!

[qprdave]

Great Pictures, Bob.

Especially the last one. Great piece of Naval history

It seems that C S Hickley MVO was there 1911 - 13

also
C S Hickley MVO Rear Admiral 1918 - 19

It says that he was a rear Admiral the second time. I wonder why!

source
http://hmsgangesassoc.org/node/217

[alanbenn]

Great photo's Bob, top of long covered way was just the same in my day.

Qprdave.... couldn't even hazard a guess at any of the ships there, don't even think I was born when the photo was taken.

Regards
Alan

[qprdave]

don't even think I was born when the photo was taken.


Hummm (only have your word for that)...Hummmm

Did I say that out loud??????????

[Derek Dicker]

Hi Bob, I remember the last of the Hunt class destroyers in the river, we used to pull/sail whalers and cutters around them back in 1957.
No long gaiters in them days short anklets.

Derek (Bunts)

[qprdave]

Did these ships have any preservation on them or were they just waiting for the breakers to take them?

[Jan Steer]

I remember, many, many years after Ganges had closed down, being in the area with my family and going to take a look at the old place. Of course when I got there it was locked and bolted but a kindly chap on the gate let us in saying that he was well used to ex-Ganges boys turning up for a look see.
There was little left but we made our way to the gym which was being pulled apart. The walls with the poem "IF" were still standing and as I stood before them reading the words as I had done so often all those years ago, the tears began to roll down my cheeks. My wife came and stood close and gripped my arm. She understood and I looked at her and the children and realised that our life together had really started here. If I had never had joined we would never have met and how different life would have been. Its so strange how things are linked together. I guess God has a plan for each of us.

Best wishes
Jan

[qprdave]

Good story Jan

Ganges change all of our lives one way or another

I don't know how many times I read IF on that wall.

I still like to read it

IF

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or, being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with wornout tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on";

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch;
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!

Rudyard Kipling

[Jan Steer]

Does anyone know who painted "IF" on the gym wall and when it was done?
I've always been curious about it.

best wishes
Jan

[Scurs]

Derek...........yes I remember them - we were No.1 recruitment 1957 (Jan7th).

Btw - last WW2 "Hunt" was, I think, "Black Brock" (HMS BROCKELSBY), paid off 1963.

[astraltrader]

Blimey - first of all we get "IT" and now "IF" - whatever next!!:D

[harry.gibbon]

anybody seen this site? bit of Ganges on it for you/me/us:-

http://navydays.me.uk/NavyWeb/HMS%20Ganges.htm

Little h

PS I have also plonked it on the Comms thread

[qprdave]

Good site Harry. Brings back memories

[Francis Stanley]

New entry division....June 1971. Ashanti mess was the first mess in the 'short covered way' the next recruitment moved back over to the annexe after it had been refurbished...for want of a better word.

Of course at this stage we were a mix of everything, some 'greenies, stokers, seamen, wasn't until we moved into the main division we were put into our respective classes and divisions.


Regards
Alan

Alan
We must have been there at the same time I joined Sep 71, (Sprog!)
I went to the blue mansions Keppel division, but it is as you say some things you remember arent quite the way it actually was.

Jan a lump always comes to my throat when I see Rudyards "If" I guess it had a subliminal message to most of us who saw it.

[Derek Dicker]

Hi all, I sometimes wonder what the younger generation will have to look back on in their older years. Call me an old anchor faced git but I have many wonderful mems from training at Ganges 57-58 to the ships and establishments I had the previledge to have served on.
Nothing wrong with nostolgia


Derek (Bunts)

[harry.gibbon]

Hey up ye achor faced old git... there now you feels better for that DD :)

I fear that the current batch of serving youngsters will have a tad too many conflicts to recall!

Just glad I was in when I was

Little h

[Scurs]

Harry............we're all "Anchor Faced Old Gits" ! :D I was at GANGES same time as DD (1957).

Btw..............always felt "seen off" on "leave morning"........get up when? 0330 was it? Then had to sit in the gym I think it was, until called for bus/lorry......we "locals" were usually last to be called. No jazzy express for us, old "Claude-Hamilton" and about 3 decrepit coaches that had long seen better days, but 30-40 minutes of gently puffing to each country station, and I was home. (Bury St. Edmunds)

[qprdave]

Scurs

I am sure that, if they supplied you with a tandem to get home on leave, you would have taken it!!!!!!

[benbow30]

11Class benbow 30mess July 10th 1951 /August52 Instructors Chief G.I Bil Boddy and P.O. TASI Windy Blizzard.
Benbow30

[malcolm esberger]

If you can't beat 'em...........join 'em..........Annexe 7th January 1957......lord knows name of mess, first one on right.
Over "Main"............Blake 7 Mess, Long Covered Way.
Instructors, CPO "Pusser" Brotherton and PO "Percy" Peram.
I think we were 124 class ..........Seamen anyhow. Opposite side of mess were Air Mechs and Stokers.

Remember getting kit............"Boots, football"............."But I don't play football, I play.........", "BOOTS FOOTBALL". Don't think they ever got used. Played Hockey for Ganges 2nd XI and Blake Division though.

first one on right annexe agincourt mess

[Dave Hutson]

Hi Scurs,

I think I put on a post before but I remember Brotherton in 53/54, Blake Division. His big oppo was a short little CPO Mellows. His opposite number with the class at that time was a "two foot across the eyebrows" POGI but I can't remember his name. Back to Brotherton - I think he was the smartest CPO [your truly included in later years] I ever came across - don't matter what time of the day or night he looked as if he had just stepped out of Gieves window.

Dave H

[Scurs]

Dave...............he must have had either a long time there or two separate drafts as Instructor! By your description has to be the same bloke.
POGI who sticks in the memory, has to be "Chicken" Childs, but on reflection can't recall if he was POGI or Chi.GI.....either way big oppo of our Percy Peram and stood all of 5ft 5".........Percy was 6ft plus..............."Little & Large".

[harry.gibbon]

I could do with one or other of them; POGI or Chief GI to dwell upon the problem of the Gizmo identity on the 'Spent Rounds' thread:confused::confused:

Little h

[Francis Stanley]

my dad (1923)
Me (1971)

[Batstiger]

Nice one Francis. Your father didn't try to warn you off then?
Having read both of the late John Douglas's books I must have been one of the lucky ones as he seemed to be writing about another place.
Fair enough it was strict with plenty of bulls..t but our two classes never came across the so called sadistic instructors or bullying leading boys.
Mind you this was in 1952/3 four years after him.

Bob.

[Dave Hutson]

Hi Scurs,

When I posted it before someone reckoned Brotherton did a fair time there. Reckon he must have been a bit of a stanchion.

I have remembered the big b..g..s name - it was Hancock - used to scare the s..t out of me and he wasn't even our Instructor.

Mind you I reckon we all did some scaring when we got clobbered for New Entry Training Establishments - came with the task of putting right all mum's coddling :)

Dave H

[Scurs]

I was never there as an Instructor, or even Ship's Company, only time I went back was post-RN. My old school chum was having his son christened (he was PO Bunting, Instructor))....chap named Ivan Howard... be about 1971'ish.
Lost contact after that but I believe he made CYS.

Pusser Brotherton must have had close friends at Haslemere..........1953-1958 (at least) a long spell even for the most barnacle of "stanchions".

[benbow30]

First photo 11class due to leave annexe August 51.
2nd One ready to leave Ganges August52 some additions onthe way.
Peter Musselwhite
Alias Benbow30
Me 3 from left back row on no1
Me3 from right front row

[Batstiger]

Just for curiosity Peter where was the second photograph taken?
I've been trying to picture somewhere in the establishment to fit in with the photograph but it has got me beat.

Bob.

[benbow30]

On the sports feild at the back of Nelson Hall.
Peter

[Guz rating]

Now that Ganges has closed down, is there another site proposed for the training of young seamen. And has anyone,any idea what the planning proposal for the old site is.

Alan

[TrotOneLower]

No. Apparently we can no longer enlist people at 15. European something or other. Lets face it, we don't like them, and they certainly don't like us.
No again. Changes with the wind. One day it is going to be this, another that.
But we are promised that the mast is safe.......and you can believe that if you like.

[qprdave]

Post #103

Ganges closed because the British Government raised the school leaving age to 16.

Perhaps it also was because of the Defence Cuts announced circa 1966 and later cuts which didn't require so many recruits because the ships wouldn't be there to be manned

[TrotOneLower]

The Wilson Governments did keep banging on about the morality, or lack thereof, in enlisting boys of fifteen, and was used as a convenient excuse.
Lets face it, we have never had a Labour government that has been in favour of the armed forces as a whole. Whatever convenient, trendy reason they can pull up to degrade and denigrate our Services, they will use, and spin it until we are all dizzy.

[Guz rating]

Like you I don't hold out any hope for the mast. And the developers won't let a little thing like a listing get in the way. I live in Blackheath near Greenwich,
and a few year ago developers had planning permission. To convert a grade 2 listed building into twelve flats. By chance the building fell down on a Sunday when no one was around. There is now a 54 apartment block on the site.Progess, I don't think so, I think we lived through the best of it.

regards

Alan

[TrotOneLower]

Yep, I can see that happening. Had an argument with the committee on the subject. The developers will keep us away as much as they can and allow the mast to rot; to the extent that it becomes a danger. Next thing, listing or not, it will be condemned.
Chatham Dockyard were interested, but that too fell on deaf ears.

[Guz rating]

Yep, I can see that happening. Had an argument with the committee on the subject. The developers will keep us away as much as they can and allow the mast to rot; to the extent that it becomes a danger. Next thing, listing or not, it will be condemned.
Chatham Dockyard were interested, but that too fell on deaf ears.

Chatham historic dockyard sounds the right place. What annoys me is that the developer now own the mast. And relocation depends on their willingness to sell. What are the MOD using for brains.

Alan

[TrotOneLower]

It's not down to MoD, as things stand with them, we could all spend a month in a brewery, and still not get a wet.
It's the Ganges association, and the mast fund. Suggested a while ago they talk to Chatham, but no, they have their own agenda. Even after I paid a sneaky visit to the site and mentioned the mast's condition, I was simply issued a bo**ocking for entering, told I was exaggerating and that the mast would not simply be left to rot. Well, guess what?

[Guz rating]

Yep, I can see that happening. Had an argument with the committee on the subject. The developers will keep us away as much as they can and allow the mast to rot; to the extent that it becomes a danger. Next thing, listing or not, it will be condemned.
Chatham Dockyard were interested, but that too fell on deaf ears.

I logged on to the HMS Ganges Association site I get the impression they have given up. They stated the mast cannot be removed from site because of the grade two listing. And they have entered into an agreement with the developers for the upkeep of the mast. We are watching an iconic piece of history being allowed slide down the slippery slope of progress

Alan

[Bee]

Ah Yes...."PROGRESS"...I wonder if they're going to change the dictionary definition of that word. I shudder ever time I hear it mentioned these days...for it usually means the destruction of something that's been held dear by many, but is in the way of short term profit for some small group of entrepeneurs and fists full of $$$$$$ssss. I don't know how they (the developers) can sleep at night! :(:(:mad::mad:

Bee

[Batstiger]

All is not lost yet! Let's wait until the thing collapses before we give up.

This might interest you. This is an email that I received a few days ago.

"Watch this space"

I hope this finds you well. I'm writing because I'm currently putting together a feature about the Ganges mast at Shotley and wondered if it might be possible to use of the photograph you submitted to the HMS Ganges Assoc website within it?

If you could let me know that would be great.

Kind Regards



Linda Walker | BBC Suffolk

[TrotOneLower]

What can you expect from a country that doesn't teach history, much less have any respect for the subject. But of course, I forgot, history started at year zero, 1997.

These were all taken in may of this year. If anyone should require more, I can put you in touch with the photographer.

As for getting the mast listed; this was done in order to preserve it, not get it condemned. I just marvel at the naivete of some people, trusting any sort of property developer to abide by their word.

[harry.gibbon]

Shocking absolutely Shocking!!!!

[ceylon220]

I`m sure that I`m going to get some stick from you old (R) old GANGES boys but would someone tell this old RALEIGH boy what was the idea of you boys climbing a bl--dy tall piece of wood called a mast, there were no sailing ships in the 50s and 60s no sails to unfurl so why practice going up and down the flag pole like a load of monkeys,and why had one of you to stand upright at the top,I believe he was called a "button boy" why not a "polecap boy" GANGES had some queer exercises, thank goodness I joined RALEIGH. :rolleyes::D:D

[qprdave]

It gave confidence in yourself

It also showed that 15 year old boys could do something that the old men from Torpoint couldn't, or more probably too scared to do.

Also it was good fun. Mind you. that last bit to the button never saw me. I got as far as the Cow horns. That was enough.

[Derek Dicker]

Me too, couldnt get me short arms around the bloody pole.

Derek (Bunts)

[BIG LES]

Just for curiosity Peter where was the second photograph taken?
I've been trying to picture somewhere in the establishment to fit in with the photograph but it has got me beat.

Bob.

I will have a guess and say it is on the upper playing field behind nelson hall with the back doors rolled up !

[alanbenn]

The last 'boys' to be trained at Ganges was actually 1973....it was a conservative government I think.....the establishment turned to a 'Raleigh' style training in June 1973...accepting recruits upto 35 years old for a 6 week training programme. It was decided for it to close in 1976 by a labour government, no need for 2 establishments. Jim Callaghan was prime minister.....he was a ordinary seaman in the RN during the War.

'Ganges' then became a Police cadet training centre, this I assume was when the mast began to be neglected, they weren't allowed to climb it...health & safety.

When I was at Ganges those who did climb were often given tasks of painting or paint stripping, greasing certain parts of the rigging etc.

Not sure when the developers actually bought the place, but as already said the Royal Navy were not the last occupants of Ganges. The police force were.

Regards
Alan

[Batstiger]

The only time I ever returned to Ganges was quite a few years ago now. The police were in attendance then and here are a couple of pictures that I took at the time.

Bob.

[qprdave]

Nice pics Bob. I wonder what the Ghosts of the G.I.s thought of cars being parked on their hallowed plot (parade ground) and part of the Quarterdeck.). A few times I have been "gently" requested not to walk across the Quarterdeck but double. Those G.I.s had "Junior RADAR" far better than any RADAR fitted to our ships!!!!!!!!

[Bee]

I have a thought...maybe if the developers were made to realise that having the mast there might be a profitable advantage to them, as a feature, then they would endeavour to save/preserve it.

In the town where I live we had a huge, old iconic tree that was in the way of a development. When the townsfolk got wind of the fact that the developers wanted to cut it down...there was a public outcry. Petitions were made up and signed, letters were written to the local shire and any politicians we thought would listen. Anyway, the developers eventually incorporated the tree as a feature at the end of the shopping mall, which is now named after the tree.
It was a good outcome...although, sadly, because some parents weren't controlling their young children, some of its lower limbs had to be removed to stop anyone from climbing and falling off it and the ensuiing public liability issues that would have followed.
However the lovely, big old tree is STILL there and the shopping mall has character - rather than being just another bland line of shops. This then generates more customers and gives the shops more value.

Surely something similar can be done to save the iconic HMS Ganges mast ??

Regards,
Bee

[Guz rating]

The developers of HMS Ganges (galliards) have written to Barergh District Council. Informing them that Galliards are taking quotes from specialist contractors to restore the mast. Galliards have also submitted a revised planning application. for a large number of retirment homes, and other buildings. Galliards are to submit to the council no later then September 10. with the detailed quotes. For the Babergh's Strategy committee meet on September 17. 2009.

Alan

[harry.gibbon]

something to read vis-a-vis Alan Guz Ratings' last posting:-

http://www.myshotley.com/ganges-mastnewsletter1.pdf

Little h

PS ... Sorry Alan I don't suppose it says any more than your precise of the article!!!! Ooops

[qprdave]

Thanks Alan/Harry

Always interested in the Mast at Ganges

[Francis Stanley]

Nice one Francis. Your father didn't try to warn you off then?
Having read both of the late John Douglas's books I must have been one of the lucky ones as he seemed to be writing about another place.
Fair enough it was strict with plenty of bulls..t but our two classes never came across the so called sadistic instructors or bullying leading boys.
Mind you this was in 1952/3 four years after him.

Bob.

Bob

I was there much later, although there was some strictness I don't think I could call it bullying, Some of my peers were the bullies and for years after I always wished I could come across them again once I had grown up a bit more.

[Francis Stanley]

It gave confidence in yourself

It also showed that 15 year old boys could do something that the old men from Torpoint couldn't, or more probably too scared to do.

Also it was good fun. Mind you. that last bit to the button never saw me. I got as far as the Cow horns. That was enough.

Me also
I am sure we were only required to go to the first platform, the rest was voluntary.
You felt like you had achieved something once you had done it, I rekon the raleigh girls just wish they had had the opportunity to do it.

[Scurs]

Francis...........I think we were required to go over "half-moon" as "mast class"..............I say "think" because when my class did it, I was in Sick Bay with Flu. Never did do it, nobody mentioned it and as I have never liked heights I wasn't about to remind them!

[Francis Stanley]

Scurs
You may be right It could have been the half moon, either way I wont forget the first time I went out over the devils elbow and not through the lubbers hatch :eek:

[Guz rating]

Thanks Alan/Harry

Always interested in the Mast at Ganges

Morning Dave,

Dave is the bottom of the mast made of metal. I seem to remember hearing this some where.

Alan

[Guz rating]

something to read vis-a-vis Alan Guz Ratings' last posting:-

http://www.myshotley.com/ganges-mastnewsletter1.pdf

Little h

PS ... Sorry Alan I don't suppose it says any more than your precise of the article!!!! Ooops

Morning Harry,

Thats the article I saw, but I can't hyper link yet. The local people seem to be up in arms. But nothing from the council about the planning gain.

alan

[qprdave]

Sorry Alan. Missed this post.

re Bottom of Mast

I honestly can't remember. Too scared to bother to look on the way up, Too relieved to care when I got down!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jan Steer]

Mast climbing; now there's a thing. We had to climb up and over the devil's elbow, then higher still and through one half of the half moon, around the topmast, through the other half of the half moon, then down and out over the devil's elbow again but this time backwards, then climb down to ground level again. At that age I was absolutely terrified of heights having never been higher than then top deck of a double decker bus!. I was even more terrified of the P.T.I.s (Physical training instructors) at the bottom of the mast telling us to climb in the loudest, the most aggresive and abusive terms imaginable ------ so I climbed!! It must have had the desired effect though because on Sunday's, after church, I often took myself and a book up onto the fighting top to sit and read.

best wishes
Jan

[Bee]

Did you have any sort of safety harnesses...or was there some kind of safety net set up down below...or did you basically risk life and limb climbing that mast??? Also is there anyone on the forum who actually did the Button Boy thing...standing up on the very top???

Regards,
Bee

p.s. I seem to recall a story my Dad told us about having to climb a mast and him getting part way up and "freezing". He had all kinds of things yelled at him but he wasn't budging. I think they had to send someone up after him to prise his fingers open and get him down. (I think he had a bit of a heights phobia :rolleyes:)

[Dave Hutson]

Hi Bee,

No safety harnesses, just shorts, shirt and gym shoes, a bucketful of guts and a will to get to the top.

Yes, I did make it to the top - but not as an official Button Boy for which they received a Shilling I think it was. I did it for a dare one Saturday Afternoon when I thought noone was looking - but Murphy's Law kicked in and a very nasty POGI spotted me - the next hour was spent running round the Parade Ground with a broom at full stretch accompanied by the guy who dared me [he came forward voluntarily - a good mate]. I often wondered what would have happened if I'd dared the POGI to come and get me.:eek:

While on the subject of the mast - I hope all you ex Ganges boys belong to the Ganges Association - if not - why not ?????

[TrotOneLower]

The recollection I have is; coming over from the Annexe and being driven up to the Devil's Elbow, climb out and over, a short trip along the lower yard, and you were done.
Thereafter it was only on free mast days that the "naively stupid" (amongst whom I include myself) then went any further.
Bit by bit, I got further, and further up the mast, until one Saturday I made it to the "Cowhorns". Grabbed the stay and stood up, only to be greeted by shouts from below (probably the same PTI as Jan's, nasty bstd), that as I was that far up, I may as well go the rest of the way. This was of course done in a manner so as to bring attention to yourself, and cause you a whole heap of embarrassment should you start your descent from that point. I feel it would have been a braver man who would have come down, and been subjected to a whole range of ridicule.
So, face the mast, legs and arms wrapped firmly around it's aging timber, and start to shin, and shin, and shin, along what must have been the longest twenty feet in any boy's life. Arrive at the top, again grab the stays, and reach a hand over to touch the button. Thinking you have done enough, begin to start descent, only to be met with more abuse from below. So, being stupid, grab the stays again, get your self positioned, take hold of the Lightening Conductor, and swing, landing legs astride the button. Now feeling like a smug little TROG, you glance down at the nasty Club Swinger in the vain, and stupid hope that some offer of praise would be forthcoming. Yes? No, not a bit, nothing, just a reminder of some non existent tradition about standing up, properly to attention, and saluting. So, absolutely petrified, you force yourself upright, holding on for dear life to the lightening conductor, and with knees slightly bent, gripping the thing between them as if your life depends on it (which it probably does), you "chop off" the quickest salute ever. Then you return, with amazing speed to the sitting position, and contemplate how you are going to get back on to terra firma. So, again gripping the dear old lightening conductor, you slide off the button, legs tightly around the mast, grab the two stays, and check position. Then, grab the mast, and squeeze it tighter than Mummy on Parent's Day, and slowly start to slide down toward the Cowhorns. Easy! Did it three times in all, but luckily, I was too tall to be button boy so wound up on the Starboard Cowhorn.

[TrotOneLower]

Did you have any sort of safety harnesses...or was there some kind of safety net set up down below...or did you basically risk life and limb climbing that mast??? Also is there anyone on the forum who actually did the Button Boy thing...standing up on the very top???

Regards,
Bee

p.s. I seem to recall a story my Dad told us about having to climb a mast and him getting part way up and "freezing". He had all kinds of things yelled at him but he wasn't budging. I think they had to send someone up after him to prise his fingers open and get him down. (I think he had a bit of a heights phobia :rolleyes:)


There was a "safety net", which was probably more for show than any practical use. It may have done you more harm than anything else should you have landed on it.

Yes I am a Member Dave.

I sure some of you will have seen this before, on Youtube, from the film "Boys To Men", full version available on request.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htmC__eg8hc

[Bee]

Thanks for that info Dave,

Latest bit of new from us here in Oz...I sent the link (about the Ganges Mast) to my Mum and she's forwarded it on to my Dad's old R.N.A. mates...so the word's being spread here as well. Hopefully they'll add their penny'sworth.

Re: climbing the mast..I think you were all very brave to climb it....I could take heights when I was younger...but the last time I tried climbing our Gloucester Tree here in W.A. (which has a ladder winding around it up to a cage at the top)...I only got up about 12 rungs before I started getting freaked out.

Previously, in my early 20's I'd got to the base of the top platform of this very tall tree, when my brain started playing a silly little mind game of..."Look how high we are...you're looking out over the tops of trees from up here...we could just decide to open our hands off the rungs etc, etc"...I ended up doing the same as my Dad, freezing..and had to let people who wanted to get to the top climb around me...somehow my hubby eventually coaxed me back down.

Cheers,
Bee

p.s. At least you overcame your fear of heights Jan...maybe the yelling instructors were good motivation. (e.g. climbing the mast was the lesser of two evils.)

p.p.s. Just read your post TrotOneLower..great story and as I said: very, very brave!!!

[Dave Hutson]

Great one Trot - Almost felt I was with you. When the Solent Division tow their trailer round they have a replica of the Button and Lightning conductor so people can stand on it and imagine what it must have been like, but you cannot simulate the terror, wind and sway.

Dave H

[TrotOneLower]

Great one Trot - Almost felt I was with you. When the Solent Division tow their trailer round they have a replica of the Button and Lightning conductor so people can stand on it and imagine what it must have been like, but you cannot simulate the terror, wind and sway.

Dave H


Were you at the RN Past and Present thing last month? We stopped and had a "tot" at your stand prior to boarding the Daring (D32) not THE DARING (D05).

[Dave Hutson]

Nay sorry Trot - me ere in Devonport. We at Devonport Div like to borrow the trailer if it is available for events and promote the Association - if we keep it alive the memories live on and I haven't found anyone yet who survived Ganges that can find a really bad word to say - we was boys from all over who became a "Band of Brothers" and it shows even today. I've never come across anyone who wasn't proud to be a Ganges Boy.

[harry.gibbon]

To those of you who made it to the button.... R E S P E C T and guddonyah guys. Half moon only geezer that was me. Yet quite happy to do the w/e free n easy waftin about on the thing.. strange when the pressure was off.

On ships though, did plenty excursions up top, changing crystals up on the AYC,AYD,AYE horns...

Little h

[Dave Hutson]

Er rite on 'arry - was good trainin' for renewing the main roof when some dockie had forgotten to include the safety links. One minut over starb'd side next over port side and clingin' on fer dear life. Those memories I can really do wivout. At least the mast didn't sway that much.

Dave H

[Dave Hutson]

Well normally your Rx and Tx Stations were manned by Radio Greenies or Civilians. We were lucky in that we only had to operate and call the stations for frequency or aerials changes.

Most of the aerial fields were maintained by civilian staff.

Dave H

[Dave Hutson]

Well normally your Rx and Tx Stations were manned by Radio Greenies or Civilians. We were lucky in that we only had to operate and call the stations for frequency or aerials changes.

Most of the aerial fields were maintained by civilian staff.

Dave H

Sorry guys, this was the answer to a Q by Qpr on the Comms Thread - 'oo maintained the aerials shoreside?

[Jan Steer]

That's right Dave, with shouts from the senior hand with his feet firmly on the deck below of, "Don't you dare fall you b*****d, I can't afford a new suit for YOUR funeral!!"

best wishes
Jan

[harry.gibbon]

Wasn't ever overly worried about shuffling out to the AJE's either - but for the life of me I can not bring to mind why I would have been out there :confused: ?? what was there to be fixed.??

The big concern was that even though I knew I had been and secured the 'safe to transmit keys' and placed them on the board... why could I not relax in the belief that noone would flash up the radars for instance:eek:

Anyway you'll all now have remembered that it was the comms guys who were doing all this - I never knew a maintainer who was keen to go up there!! and I thought that was what REM's were for:confused::D:D

Suppose this is comms stuff really but it was mast climbing after all and the PTI's at Ganges were to blame for sure!!!!

Little h

[Dave Hutson]

Jan, You got it in one mate, good on yer. Saw a guy once tore his ring finger cos' he wudn't take the damn thing off, caught it in a strand of wire and bingo. Still kept most of the digit but boy wot a mess, yuk.

[qprdave]

Sorry Lads. I put the question here. I deleted it, but not quick enough for every man and his dog to see. I put it where it should have been. In the Comms thread!!!!

[Jan Steer]

Bee, as Trot has said there was a safety net but it was made from flexible steel wire. If anyone did fall and hit it, they would have come out the other side looking like chips! There was a popular story that always seemed to have done the rounds of GANGES regardless of when we served there. It ran that one young boy did fall, hit the net, bounced and disappeared through the post office roof. The post office was adjacent to where the mast stood. A patch of newish tiles on the roof seemed to support this. Fact or myth? I never did find out and I'm not sure that anyone really knows the answer. Gave we young boys something to think about though as we made our way skywards!

best wishes
Jan

[qprdave]

I heard that as well Jan. also never told if it was true or false. I expect It was kept alive intentionally. Possibly to remove the over confidence that we all had at 15 years old

[Dave Hutson]

Going the rounds in 53/54 was that a PO, peed out of his brain climbed it, took a dive and went thru' like chips - probably another one to keep we young impressionable lads on our toes - and it worked.

[Francis Stanley]

The lad through the Post Office roof was still doing the rounds when I was there, also some one going through it like chips, I don't know if there actually was anyone who fell off though, but even one or two is not bad considering how many lads through the years who must have been over it.
Can you imagine the health and saftey outrage that would happen today if you tried to force a 15 year old lad up a step ladder let alone a blinking great mast.

[alanbenn]

Divisions, photo courtesy of RA Fisk:p

Does anyone know what happened to him when Ganges closed?

and what happened to his vast photo collection?


Regards
Alan

[TrotOneLower]

Divisions, photo courtesy of RA Fisk:p

Does anyone know what happened to him when Ganges closed?

and what happened to his vast photo collection?


Regards
Alan

No, but the bugger took enough money off me through my "credits".

[Batstiger]

I'm not sure Alan but I think the Ganges museum acquired them.

I may have shown this picture before. This was when the CMG first opened in 1952. Pictured are members from our two classes 187 and 188 from 27 mess Anson division. They wouldn't have been called cooks of the mess in those modern days, possibly table waiters, any ideas?
These lads, those who are still alive are all in their seventies now.
I must have been sat at a table with the rest, patiently awaiting that lovely grub!!

Bob.

[qprdave]

It a good picture Bob

When I was there in 66/67. All Juniors would do Work Ship. Some would work with the Buffer some would be detailed to work in the Senior Rates Mess and Wardroom.

Others, me included, worked in the CMG. We were divided up some worked in the Galley and some worked in the Dining Room. These guys worked in the Galley, plate, dish and pot washing, general cleaning and serving at mealtimes. This picture was taken in the Galley

My next work ship was Mail Office Messenger. Cushy little number

Dave

[TrotOneLower]

Fallen in on the parade ground three deep, regardless of the weather. Badge boy comes along, thrusts his not yet manly arm in amongst you, and barks in that "Ganges" fashion; "eckshun ell, ick arch". Then a quick "ite eel", march along a bit, "all art", followed by a mad dash inside to sample yet more culinary delicacies conjured up by our very own maritime epicurean wizards.

[harry.gibbon]

Hey up mate tiz linguists time .. attnshun; qik march; o/s wheel; brakz on; .. and run for yer nosh. can I have my 1st class star now pse

[Batstiger]

Dave, in those days there weren't any working parties unless the mess was work ship week.
The guys in the picture had been sent up to the servery to collect the food for their appropriate tables where there were "x" amount of people. The gadgets in their hands were for carrying the food whether it was for 8 plates or ten I cannot remember.
They collected the food and returned to their tables where they were passed around. The food was scoffed then I presume they cleared up the plates and went to collect the sweets. It's such a long time ago that I have forgotten.
No doubt it was completely different in your time.

Bob.

[qprdave]

It certainly was different Bob. If you see my post I did say that we had "Work Ship Week". There was two lots of work ship weeks during the whole time we were there. We all queued up alongside the walls and windows then through the door and down the stairs, we put our plate out when we got to the servery and the food was plonked on it. We all hoped that we knew one of the Junior servers so we could get a little bit extra. It was hard luck if you were unlucky to be late. Getting to the CMG was a case of marching at Gurkha speed, keeping a look out for any G.Is that were around!!!!!

[Jan Steer]

64/65 was my time and like you Bob we also had a "work ship" period but I think ours may have been two weeks. It's a long time ago so I can't really remember. Happily for me, as a junior cox'n, I was put to work down at the pier. My main job was to sail my cutter out to the moored warships and bring their gash bins ashore then return the empties. Good fun until the weather turned inclement. Still, it did wonders for my confidence and helped make a man of me. Some of the rest of the time I sat in the gloom of the boats store surrounded by the smell of old rope and tar, listening spellbound as the ABs spun dits to each other, all seated around the red-hot, pot-bellied stove that hissed intermittently as well-aimed spittal hit it. It was the warmest I ever got at Ganges!

best wishes
Jan

[Derek Dicker]

Remember work ship very well 57/58, had a week in the chuff n puffs mess, then a week as training officers messenger, walked around the establishment with mail all day, even got to go outside the main est to the annex.
The job I really fancied was in the pig farm, no not the wardroom.


Derek (Bunts)

[Scurs]

Derek........must have been plenty of quiet numbers going in 57/58 work ship 'cos I got to be RC Padre's messenger......don't think I ever actually met him (and I was/am CofE anyhow.......Church of Wheelbarrow),but it whetted my appetite for Office work, and eventually, many years later, qualified as GOW,

[Taffsparks]

'64, (69 Rec't), Workship on the Main Gate, making Brews for Crushers, GIs and whoever told me to make them one. Main memory was that it was winter, it was pigging freezing, and I had to stand out in it!............and not once was I told, 'Make one for yourself'.
Memory of the CMG...Newly arrived from the Annexe, joined the queue inside the screamer for 'Tea', although at the back of the queue I could hear the Chef, saying, 'if you want anymore just ask', of course nobody did. As I got closer to the servery he was still exhorting us to, 'not be afraid, just ask', on my arrival,foolishly, I said, 'Could I have some more please Sir'. The rant commenced, all delivered at about 90 decibels, 'YOU GREEDY LITTLE BASTARD THERE'S A LOAD OF YOUR MATES BEHIND YOU AND YOUR TRYING TO NICK THEIR F"£$*&G GRUB, YOUR THE GUTTSIEST LITTLE TW*T THIS SIDE OF IPSWICH', the remainder of the diatribe seemed to go on for hours, needless to say my Oliver Twist impression never saw the light of day again. I don't think I ever stopped being hungry during my time there.
How to learn Morse fast........This is the method originated by C.Y. Stickings(not my Class instructor), used in Drake 37 mess. Wait until all the JRO's are in their Pyjamas and sat to attention in bed awaiting the arrival of evening rounds. Enter Messdeck carrying a Broom handle, ask boy in first bed what is the Morse Code for the letter Bravo, if he gets it right move on to next boy, if he gets it wrong, get boy out of bed, make him bend over end of bed, and tap out on his backside the morse equivalent of the letter Bravo, repeat a further twice using increasing force on each occasion. Lovely man. Luckily my Instructor, CY Beales, was a decent enough bloke, although a dead shot with a Blackboard duster he never hit the Sadist button.

[qprdave]

"get boy out of bed, make him bend over end of bed, and tap out on his backside the morse equivalent of the letter Bravo"

Being a Junior UC (Pinger). I am glad that they didn't do the same with us. I would not like to be pinged up the backside by anyone.

But seeing that our two Instructors were R.P.s I think that us T.A.S. rates were pretty lucky.

[TrotOneLower]

Did mine in the Screamers, operating a massive (seemed it at the time) dishwasher thing. Then cleaning tables and sweeping out. Remember the shout, "last two"? Also sneaking the standard issue two back to back slices of stale bread into your Oilskin pocket. Then nip back to your mess and toast them on the iron.
I was also the Divisional Office boy for a while. Had to get up at the crack of Sparrow F*rt, head for the main boiler and collect a shovel full of red hot coals (Although it was actually Coke). Take them back to the office, start the fire, and get the morning brew on before the divisional Instructors and Officers arrived.

[qprdave]

I wonder what we, as Juniors, would have said to anyone that told us, halfway through our time there, that we would look back at Ganges with such affection.

I for one would have laughed at them. I wouldn't have sworn at them. Learning those words wouldn't come until I arrived on the Unwanted and listen to the A/Bs and Killicks.

[alanbenn]

I wonder what we, as Juniors, would have said to anyone that told us, halfway through our time there, that we would look back at Ganges with such affection.



Too True! I remember how many of us in our mess cried with being homesick the 1st couple of weeks there, and the odd one may have left.

But, by the time we were passing out in our new No.1's the pride in getting through it all was plain to see.

And now we're all older, we think the youngsters of today should be given a bit of that to buck their ideas up.........probably would too.

Regards
Alan

[Francis Stanley]

"get boy out of bed, make him bend over end of bed, and tap out on his backside the morse equivalent of the letter Bravo"

Being a Junior UC (Pinger). I am glad that they didn't do the same with us. I would not like to be pinged up the backside by anyone.

But seeing that our two Instructors were R.P.s I think that us T.A.S. rates were pretty lucky.

You were indeed lucky not to get pinged up the backside if your instructors were RP's ! :D

[Francis Stanley]

Too True! I remember how many of us in our mess cried with being homesick the 1st couple of weeks there, and the odd one may have left.

But, by the time we were passing out in our new No.1's the pride in getting through it all was plain to see.

And now we're all older, we think the youngsters of today should be given a bit of that to buck their ideas up.........probably would too.

Regards
Alan

Hear Hear Alan I second that

[romft1945]

Dave, in those days there weren't any working parties unless the mess was work ship week.
The guys in the picture had been sent up to the servery to collect the food for their appropriate tables where there were "x" amount of people. The gadgets in their hands were for carrying the food whether it was for 8 plates or ten I cannot remember.
They collected the food and returned to their tables where they were passed around. The food was scoffed then I presume they cleared up the plates and went to collect the sweets. It's such a long time ago that I have forgotten.
No doubt it was completely different in your time.

Bob.

Bats,
Thats the same routine we had in St Vincent
Rom

[Batstiger]

I thought you ex-Ganges lads would like to have a look at this site and pass your comments.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/suffolk/content/articles/2009/08/17/hms_ganges_campaign_lw_feature.shtml

Bob.

[qprdave]

I notice one thing, Bob.

John Noakes was there in 1967 not 1968. because I was on the mast with him. albeit a lot lower down than he was. Had a lot of respect for him. I didn't realise that he didn't make it to the top. I thought that he did do it after a few attempts! He did look a bit strange in a blue suit and longish hair when all us boys were bald around the sides. The Button boy that year was from my class J/S Churcher from Chester-le-Street

[Derek Dicker]

Hi Bob. Very sad report, Just maybe rpt maybe, someone will listen.


Derek (Bunts)

[benbow30]

10/11 Classes coaling ship the Ganges way prior to going on draft Agust 52.We wore Black caps for obvious reasons.
Peter Musselwhite.
Alias Benbow30

[benbow30]

Ready for for rounds Sir 30 mess Benbow Division. Chief G.I.Bill Boddy and P.O. windy Blizzard. Pre. C.M.G.Late 51.
Benbow 30

[Guz rating]

Ready for for rounds Sir 30 mess Benbow Division. Chief G.I.Bill Boddy and P.O. windy Blizzard. Pre. C.M.G.Late 51.
Benbow 30

Nice picture Benbow, both seen action both wearing medal ribbons.

Alan

[Taffsparks]

About 35 years after leaving the Mob, I was doing a stint as a Trainer/Assesor
at the BNFL Springfifelds Site just outside Preston, I was having a chat with one of the lads I was training, obviously the Forces was mentioned, he was in the Army, and had joined as a Junior Leader, I told him about my time at Ganges. He said he had the utmost respect for anyone who had undergone training at Ganges as he had been there for a week during his training for an interservice training establishment sporting event. He reckoned it was the toughest week of his Army training as they had to fall in with the routine worked by trainees there. As for the mast he and his oppos shat themselves just looking up at it. After we had stopped cackling the Plant Manager, who had been stood nearby in the control room, said that he was born in Shotley Gate and that his parents had run the Post Office in the Village. He said that in the early '70s he used to earn coppers by taking orders for ciggies, nutty etc from the lads on the sports fields, passing their money through the Fence and he'd get it from his Dad's shop. So if any of you lads out there had a young lad running an errand for you to Shotley P.O., that lad now has a Doctorate in Nuclear Engineering and is a high flyer in the Nuclear Industry. Small world eh !

[alanbenn]

Well there yer go, that's why Ganges is best, we even put a young lad on the road to a distinguished career.

Regards
Alan

[Guz rating]

Well there yer go, that's why Ganges is best, we even put a young lad on the road to a distinguished career.

Regards
Alan

And Ho Chi Minh, worked in Lyons Corner House part-time, and look where he ended up.

Alan.

PS. Nice story Taff.

[harry.gibbon]

Scroll down to page 10 on this link and lookee here what we have is a product of Ganges... we is everywhere man!!!

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=lnr7MkZLGz4C&pg=PA9&lpg=PA9&dq=gunnery+direction+radars+in+royal+navy&source=bl&ots=oZP5umG8nV&sig=gq8fY681QZM34zU5xAEHV1yBUxo&hl=en&ei=ciuPSr6FBcKgjAf6t-T5DQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false

I happened upon it whilst looking for answers to the spent rounds thread

Little h

[Guz rating]

Scroll down to page 10 on this link and lookee here what we have is a product of Ganges... we is everywhere man!!!

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=lnr7MkZLGz4C&pg=PA9&lpg=PA9&dq=gunnery+direction+radars+in+royal+navy&source=bl&ots=oZP5umG8nV&sig=gq8fY681QZM34zU5xAEHV1yBUxo&hl=en&ei=ciuPSr6FBcKgjAf6t-T5DQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false

I happened upon it whilst looking for answers to the spent rounds thread

Little h

Nice link Harry,

Im off to bed see you tomorrow.

Alan

[Batstiger]

Okay, Okay Okay when you guys have finished wetting yourselves with laughter who else had the misfortune to be issued with an oval cap on joining the establishment?
Nice bit of skin though!

Bob.

[Benbow]

Ready for for rounds Sir 30 mess Benbow Division. Chief G.I.Bill Boddy and P.O. windy Blizzard. Pre. C.M.G.Late 51.
Benbow 30


Benbow 27 mess,1966 ,last one on the left at bottom Long Covered Way

Not much had changed in 16 years , CPO Stoker Perrin (L) and Williamson.

I think this open day Admirals guard in 1967. I am in the right column, the short house in the middle. We used those nice SLR riifles.

[Mousey]

Ref Thread 1, posts 13-16, in April. No I did not go off in a sulk. Just got lost amongst all the threads. Joined 4 Jan 49, 4' 8 1/2" (a foot higher on demob). Went over to Grenville, 19 Griffin mess, class 213 (210). Mess chiefy was Heyhoe. Firm but fair. A real gentleman in every respect. Never shouted. Never needed to. He was too well respected. Would stay anything up to an hour after lights out answering questions and tell us about the Andrew. PO Tel Robinson was our instructer another 'nice' person. The music we had for touchtyping was always Victor Sowester's on account of the strict beat. Fall off the mast? We would not dare. All that has been said is true. Up to the half moon for proper mast classes but just up to the first platform for ordinary 'going over the mast' prior to morning divisions including when there was a white frost. Have a few other fotos of Grenville in '49 but wont bore you with them as there does not seem to be anyone on the site from that era. I'm arrowed in the annexe foto and am 2nd from left in 2nd to top row in staff foto. Why I'm in it God knows. I will always be proud to be a Ganges Boy and grateful for what I was taught both inside and outside the mess and classroom. It has stood me in good stead, especially during hard and unhappy times. Regards to all David.

[Scurs]

Mousey..............obviously there were changes, but basically "Ganges was Ganges", be it your time of 1949, mine of 1957, or Benbows of 1966...........we can all relate to it.

Liked your photo of "Rollo" & "Bootlace"............we had a chap "Horse" (actual surname "Horsey"), stood around 6ft 4" and was always right hand marker. Me at 5ft 6" somewhere in the middle of the squad...............off we would go and the POGI would scream, "Stop 'kin galloping Horsey, your not at 'kin Newmarket" :D
Actually bumped into "Horse" at RNB, Pompey, in 1968 whilst awaiting demob..........he by now was a PO, Boom Defence rating.

[qprdave]

Post #186

Benbow. Pic 1. How many hours did you spend on your hands and knees with your polish brush polishing the deck on "Friday night routine" and when you got to the door, was told. "OK up to the end and start again"?

BY the way I was in Duncan 11 mess during Sep 1966 to Aug 1967

[Mousey]

Mousey..............obviously there were changes, but basically "Ganges was Ganges", be it your time of 1949, mine of 1957, or Benbows of 1966...........we can all relate to it.

Liked your photo of "Rollo" & "Bootlace"............we had a chap "Horse" (actual surname "Horsey"), stood around 6ft 4" and was always right hand marker. Me at 5ft 6" somewhere in the middle of the squad...............off we would go and the POGI would scream, "Stop 'kin galloping Horsey, your not at 'kin Newmarket" :D
Actually bumped into "Horse" at RNB, Pompey, in 1968 whilst awaiting demob..........he by now was a PO, Boom Defence rating.
Quite agree Scurs - no need to change a tried and trusted routine. "Corpen" reminded me of the buntings on the parade ground 'executing' their various flag hoists. It was very impressive except when someone got it wrong. I never did find out what happened to Rollo and Bootlace. Seem to remember the latter kept goal.

[Benbow]

Post #186

Benbow. Pic 1. How many hours did you spend on your hands and knees with your polish brush polishing the deck on "Friday night routine" and when you got to the door, was told. "OK up to the end and start again"?

BY the way I was in Duncan 11 mess during Sep 1966 to Aug 1967

Yes Dave , lets do it again !

Many hours indeed were spent on hands and knees on Friday nights. I also remember cleaning those window panes with newspaper with the Siberian wind going right through me.

I know we had an old wireless in the mess that we had tuned to Radio Caroline and the Bee Gees singing Massachusetts and the Beatles, Lucy in the Sky !

Foot note.

After we were about to leave the annexe we had a parade .I had suffered badly in the Oct/Nov cold easterly winds and had very bad bleeding chapped lips. The officer inspecting us told me to report to the sick bay and get some vaseline !

Can you imagine how this request would have been recieved by a 3 badge stoker !!!!!!


Cheers Benbow

[Dave Hutson]

Remember those Brown Canvas Shoes and the Polish Bumpers.

Essential Reading for all Ganges Boys --- Obituaries Today --- Captain Robert Franks.

Dave H

[qprdave]

You must have been the recruitment behind me (88?) I was 87. We were glad when the next recruitment came over because then we were not the "Junior recruitment" anymore.

Do you remember, when, in the Annexe, marching over to the main Establishment to watch a movie and walking in everyone turned and stared as if we were from Mars????

[Benbow]

Yup Dave ,

88 recruitment. We were marched over to the mast and requested in a kind and gentlemanly fashion to climb the B***** thing!

A rather beta male lad was quite reluctant to climb, once a few of the northern lads had thumped him as they passed him 2 rungs up he reluctantly commenced his climb. I am sure this lad had need of the washroom later that afternoon !

[Mousey]

Where's Mouseys' contribution in this Thread!!!! :confused: ~ ~ ~ dot com!

Little h
Still trying to catch up Lit.H ~ its my little legs u no. However, I have tried to make a start. Dont forget that learning curve I've been on trying to learn how to crop, resize and all the rest of it regarding attachments. I note the upload prog. has now changed for the better just as I was getting used to the original. Do you happen to know how it chooses to go looking after Browse is clicked? Maybe Their Lordships will issue an AFO giving info or is there somewhere on the site where info re updates is located? This Excellent site is so bleeding big its like trying to find your way round a dockyard. Mousey.

[qprdave]

"so bleeding big its like trying to find your way round a dockyard. Mousey"

Mousey

All you need to know is where the Dockyard Canteen is and how to get to the Dockyard Maingate as quickly as possible for long week ends

Dave

[astraltrader]

Still trying to catch up Lit.H ~ its my little legs u no. However, I have tried to make a start. Dont forget that learning curve I've been on trying to learn how to crop, resize and all the rest of it regarding attachments. I note the upload prog. has now changed for the better just as I was getting used to the original. Do you happen to know how it chooses to go looking after Browse is clicked? Maybe Their Lordships will issue an AFO giving info or is there somewhere on the site where info re updates is located? This Excellent site is so bleeding big its like trying to find your way round a dockyard. Mousey.


Mousey - From the word go when I first took you through all the basics I told you that if you had any questions just send me a PM!
Anyway regarding your question - by pressing browse it just allows you to access exactly where on your computer you have stored your pictures.
It has not been changed!!

[john.t]

My father joined the Navy in 1911 and was demobed in 1935 as a chief gunners mate,as there was no work about at that time he took a job as a pensioner instructor at "Ganges". The family moved up from Portsmouth and lived half way down "Bristol hill".He was called up again at the outbreak of war where he brought a house in the village.He was at Ganges untill after the war .when he was demobed in 1946 he took the job as cillivian armorour untill he retired in 1962. so if did any rifle drill or shooting you would have got your gear from him just by the gyms.
I was born in 1945 in shotley and went to the Royal hospital School in1956 There I learnt to sail ,splice rope &, wire, shoot,box , drill etc. from there ,you guesed it,I joined Ganges in 1961 .
The one minute round in the bixing ring saw my 4 opponents layed out and I was In the main Boxing team , this was brilliant because after the earley morning training we had our breakfast in the ships company dining hall ,eggs that didn't bounce. I was soon made a badge boy, won my cricket colours .
Because of my schooling I didn't find it as hard as the other boys but even so I've never been as fit in my life as I was then.
John T

[Batstiger]

I came across this aerial picture today of HMS Ganges which I hadn't seen before.
Can anyone tell me please. When was it taken? It was obviously a long time after I had left.

What are the buildings on the foreshore at the bottom of the long covered way?

What has happened to all of the cutters and whalers down at the pierhead?

Cheers, Bob.

[Scratcher]

The tin huts have gone as well Bob.I've been made homeless.

[Batstiger]

The gypsy caravan site bottom left looks very much improved!

Bob.

[alanbenn]

Bob, I think the photo may have been taken after it closed. Noticable that there's no one around anywhere on the photo.

In 1971 the buildings at the bottom of the long covered way were classrooms for the Electrical branch Juniors and the Stokers Juniors.

The cutters were still there in 1971, I've been trying to find a photo I have of me in the Blake division cutter, during the regatta, I know it's in the house somewhere???:p

Just along from the buildings you mention you can just about see the old shelters that was used to do the 'tear-gas' tests for our gas masks.....wouldn't be allowed these days eh?

Regards
Alan

[harry.gibbon]

Interesting pic Bob, I think Alan is right, its not in RN ownership ... I can't see the tin huts of the old Blake Divn by the Pool. At least the mast looks intact at this stage though!

Little h

[Fairlead]

Re the GANGES mast - there was a mast diagram in the Senior Rates mess at MERCURY, perhaps that is the one you have seen. Not sure if it is The GANGES mast or just an old print of 'a' mast.

Fairlead

[astraltrader]

Fairlead - I think you meant the above post to be moved here!:)