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wilma
05-08-2007, 18:23
I am new to this and I am wondering if I can find a crew list for this ship during the second world war as I know my grandfather serve on this ship.
thanks Linda

steve@sussexsafety.co.uk
17-08-2007, 21:39
My father was on HMS Victory during WW2 at various times - I have the impression that it was a training establishment at Portsmouth, presumably based around the famous HMS Victory. My father did his basic training there in 1933 and again in 1939 and also in 1943

Melv.
18-08-2007, 12:34
Many RN sailors were posted to HMS Victory during WW2 as a holding shore based establishment whilst waiting for assignment to another ship.
My Father was posted to Victory when the Ark Royal was sunk and eventually, after a couple of months, he was posted to another ship.
Although HMS Victory is on the Royal Navy list as active (and still is) it is more of a symbolic gesture to Nelson's Navy than anything else although it must be said it does have a serving RN Captain and a small maintenance crew of RN sailors.

jpotter61
06-11-2007, 18:14
My Father in Law, James Harry Potter served on the HMS Victory 1918/1919 and then was discharged as he was underage. I cannot find anything about this ship as all I get is the famous Victory. Can anyone help me please

tonclass
06-11-2007, 18:37
VICTORY (Barracks) was the former name for HMS NELSON, a shorebase in Portsmouth. Perhaps this is where he served.

Topcat
08-05-2008, 19:55
I notice on my great-uncles naval service record that he was posted 4 times to HMS Victory on different occasions from 1911-1918, was HMS Victory a training base during this time? would apprecaite any information

Topcat

historydavid
08-05-2008, 22:03
HMS VICTORY, Nelson's old flagship, was a holding name for men who were posted into the Portsmouth area. Every man in the RN had to be assigned to a vessel because of the naval discipine regulations.

Your GU could have been on a training course or in hospital for example.

NSR
08-05-2008, 22:25
HMS Victory normally referred to the barracks in Queen Street, Portsmouth which acted as accommodation ashore. I spent two years there attending the Mechanician's Training Course based at Fanshaw. Your great-uncle could have been based there while waiting for a draft to a new ship or attending a training course.
I passed there a few years ago and glanced in through the gate; the parade ground appeared to be covered in Portacabins. I wondered how they managed to hold Sunday Divisions or has that now vanished too?

Ken

tonclass
09-05-2008, 01:12
HMS VICTORY is now known as HMS NELSON. Technically the draft was to VICTORY BARRACKS, but as mentioned is now the current NELSON BARRACKS with VICTORY re-establishing her name to the wooden wall in the dockyard !!

Topcat
09-05-2008, 07:51
Thanks to everyone for the info, couldn't quite imagine Nelson's ship been used as part of the war effort.

Topcat

Commodore Armiger
09-05-2008, 10:41
Depends on one's definition of "war effort"!

Between 1778 and 1812 HMS Victory was on active service more often than not, heavily engaged at the two battles of Ushant, Cape St Vincent and Trafalgar as well as later operations in the Baltic. She was subsequently used as a depot ship and school of telegraphy and is currently flagship of CINCNAVHOME - the oldest commissioned warship in the world.

The Nazis claimed to have destroyed her during an air-raid on Portsmouth, so I think she may safely be credited with having "done her bit" during three centuries.

Odin
09-05-2008, 16:32
The only sad thing is that she was actually built in Chatham Dockyard, which is where I started as an apprentice. Now they have concreted her in at Portsmouth there is absolutely no chance of her going back to her rightful home.

jbryce1437
09-05-2008, 21:52
I was drafted to HMS Victory, attached to the Fleet Maintenance Group. Consequently, my service record show me as being drafted to HMS Victory (FMG), I believe those who were actually serving on Nelsons flagship, as guides, etc., were shown as HMS Victory (Ship), while those attached to the barracks had HMS Victory (RNB) on their SC.
Not sure of the score c1914, when the flagship would still be afloat in the harbour, but assume that the Barracks was also named HMS Victory at that time and a similar system was in place to record each ratings whereabouts.

ceylon220
12-06-2008, 17:16
Here`s a pic of the old main gate at Pompey`s RNB, it should have displayed a sign "All who enter here do so at your peril", there was more pomp & disipline in the 50s at this place then anywhere else in the navy. The day that I left RALEIGH, then the Stokers training stone frigate, I had a hair cut by the ships barber 1 shilling in old money and as soon as I set foot in RNB I was pulled up by a leading hand provo "Get a haircut", tried to argue with the so and sobut to no avail, another shilling out of my buff stokers pay and then the sod got me again in the same day for walking across the hallowed ground-the parade ground, he had me doubling 20 times around that p/ground and then said "you won`t be walking again stokes will you"--I was drafted out within 4days to meet my ship, a great sigh of relief to be out of there, I was only there twice after that.

Joseph
12-06-2008, 21:35
Worked then!, glad to get off to your Ship than becoming a Barrack Stanchion ?

Regards Charles

ossie
17-11-2008, 21:33
Hellp!
I have a picture of my grandfather in navy uniform wearing a cap with the name HMS Victory on it. It was 1918 when the picture was taken and his age is 19. The thing that confuses me is that my father only remembers him serving on hms cumberland which I also have pictures of so could anyone help me find out why he would be there

Batstiger
17-11-2008, 22:15
Welcome to the forum, HMS Victory was the name used by Portsmouth barracks. I would suggest that your father was attached to the barracks when the picture was taken.
Feel free to share your pictures with us.

Regards, Bob.

Joseph
17-11-2008, 22:20
Ossie,

HMS Victory was a large concern involved with accommodating and training sailors, HMS Cumberland was on the West Indies and North American Station from 1915. Have you got your Grandfathers Service Register?

Regards Charles

CYLLA
17-11-2008, 22:24
Joseph,
She must have just come back from the west indies ,and having a refit or some in dry dock .

Had a look for a image of the time ,nowt about .

cylla

Batstiger
17-11-2008, 23:27
Here is the Cumberland. Ignore the second one I have made a Boob.

Bob.

herakles
18-11-2008, 01:16
I was surprised with the name HMS Victory as I understand that Nelson's flagship is still a ship of the RN. I couldn't see how another ship would have the same name. Please tell me if I am wrong here.

tim lewin
18-11-2008, 05:53
HMS Victory also cover the Barracks, the shore establishment and the building in which the administration is located, or did, might all be different now!

Joseph
18-11-2008, 08:35
There was, as far as I can find out 10 HMS Victory's (each classed as a Division) during the WW1 period. Each Shore Establishment/Training Ship etc, had to have a commissioned seagoing vessel at its head to fulfil the criteria of the Naval Discipline Act.

Victory I = Portsmouth
Victory II = Crystal Palace
Victory III = Portsmouth
Victory IV = London/Portsmouth/Petersfield/Crystal Palace
Victory VI = Crystal Palace
Victory VII = Portland
Victory IX = Portsmouth
Victory X = Portsmouth
Victory XI = Portland

The mans service register normally states which Division he was attached to.

Regards Charles

ossie
09-02-2009, 21:12
Hi,
just thought I would tell you that I got my grandad's naval records showing he was at Victory 2, Victory X, HMS Cumberland and then back to the Victory 2.
Is the only way of finding the ships crew of HMS Cumberland by going down to Portsmouth?

ossie
11-02-2009, 21:16
Hi,
My grandad was only a short spell on the cumberland going by his records, 1st Feb 1919-18th march 1920.
Thanks for asking charles

Joseph
12-02-2009, 13:55
Hi,

The crew lists are not available, when he was on HMS Cumberland what was his 'List and Number' ?.

Regards Charles

ossie
12-02-2009, 19:47
Hi,

the list number you require is 15 and his name is Oswald Smith. Thanks for your help

Beery
17-03-2009, 14:17
Once again I'm posting an obscure request. This time for information about HMS Victory II. From what I've been told, this was not technically a ship, but a shore installation for training new recruits. My great great grand uncle was posted to Victory II during the following periods, and this is what I've been told about Victory II's role:

Victory II - Stoker, 11/8/1910 - 3/9/1910. Passed induc for P.O. (presumably an induction test to start the process towards Petty Officer)

Victory II - Stoker, 16/10/1910 - 6/12/1910. Passed Prof for S.P.O. (presumably a test for Stoker Petty Officer?)

Victory II - Stoker, 27/6/1913 - 31/7/1914. No details.

Victory II - Stoker, 8/4/1915 - 21/2/1916. (apparently, from what I've been told, from 1914, Victory II was the Crystal Palace/Sydenham training depot for the Royal Naval Division, so why he'd be here as a stoker is a mystery to me). According to Wikipedia, the British 63rd (Royal Naval) Division was a First World War division of the New Army. It had been formed at the outbreak of war as the Royal Naval Division composed largely of surplus reserves of the Royal Navy who were not required at sea.

Victory II - Leading Stoker, 14/10/1917 - 8/2/1918. No details.

Any info will be greatly appreciated.

qprdave
17-03-2009, 14:26
Hope this will help a little, Beery

Victory II was the Crystal Palace/Sydenham training depot for the Royal Naval Division from 1914 and in Naval parlance, was "paid off" on 21.3.19. It was also known as HMS Crystal Palace. It appears to have had no existance prior to 1914.

Beery
17-03-2009, 14:30
Ooops, hehe, I just added some more info that's the same as what you wrote, hehe. Great to have confirmation though! Thanks.

As for the Crystal Palace/Sydenham training depot not existing before 1914, that's almost certainly true, but Victory II must have existed from at least 1910, because I have the service papers that prove William Wheelhouse was assigned there.

So the question becomes this: where and what was Victory II prior to 1914. It's certainly some kind of training establishment, but that's all I can gather.

navalis
17-03-2009, 14:52
VICTORY II is not listed in the Navy Lists of the time, but under the entry 'Victory' there is a long list of those that came under that name. It includes the Royal Naval Barracks at Portsmouth and various 'outposts' in Portsmouth Dockyard. These include the school of physical training, the signal school and '2nd class stokers under training'.

I would suggest that the term Victory II was used for accounting purposes, and probably refers to those under training at Portsmouth.

alanbenn
17-03-2009, 14:59
Beery, the subject of shore bases such as Victory II has been asked several times before on the forum so you are not alone at the confusion regarding the base.

There have been several Victory (bases) all are accounting bases, for the purpose of pay etc. Your relative would have been attached to a unit or ship and Victory II was his accounting base for his pay and conditions. This way the RN could account for everyone. Often on the records there maybe a name in brackets after the Victory II, this may indicate the ship or unit he was at.


Regards
Alan

Beery
17-03-2009, 17:08
Thanks for the info. Unfortunately there is no further information, so would that mean he was based on shore and not attached to a ship at that time?

oldsalt
17-03-2009, 18:16
When on the Mechanicians qualifying course I spent 18 months in pompey barracks, it was definately HMS Victory, this was 1955-6, the last 6mths of the course was at HMS Sultan, it had just been taken over from the Fleet Air Arm and was HMS Siskin then.

Joseph
17-03-2009, 18:56
Victory II was the Division at Portsmouth that Accounted for ERA's and Stokers, at the outbreak of war it was moved to Crystal Palace to account for the New Entry's

It was like a depot ship but on land dealing with the Administration of its Division.

Regards Charles

Beery
17-03-2009, 19:00
Ah great! That mystery is solved. Thanks.

qprdave
17-03-2009, 19:48
I knew that someone here would know.

SCRG1970
10-04-2009, 20:56
Trawling through several initial enquiries there seems to be confusion on Service Records re HMS VICTORY especially when it has a suffix ie VICTORY III.

To assist new members here is a list of the fuctions/dates of HMS VICTORY

HMS VICTORY Portsmouth Depot Ship bearing the name of the barracks until renamed NELSON in 1974.

VICTORY I at Goodings near Newbury as an Accounting Base from Sept.1940

VICTORY II at Crystal Palace Sydenham as a Training Depot for RN Divisions in 1915 . Called HMS CRYSTAL PALACE.

VICTORY II at Newbury as Portsmouth Accounting Section moved to Portsmouth late 1945.

VICTORY III Accounting Section at Wooley Park, Wantage Oct.1940 returning to Portsmouth late 1945.

VICTORY IV Accounting Section at Crystal palace 1919. Joined with VICTORY III in Oct 1939 and reformed at Leydene House, Petersfield Nov. 1941-1945. Returned to Portsmouth late 1945.

VICTORY V Base at the South Western Hotel in Southampton from May 1941. Renamed HMS SHRAPNEL June 1942.

VICTORY V at Portsmouth as Combined HQ from June 1944.

VICTORY VI at Crystal Palace as a Depot for RN and RNR Divisions 1914-1918.

VICTORY X at Commercial Chambers Portsmouth as a Demob Centre in 1947.

VICTORY XI at Portland as a Naval Depot 1920 and renamed as BOSCAWEN in 1932.

Hope this basic guide will help those researching service records and save a lot of repetetive posts.

Regards

Gerry

astraltrader
10-04-2009, 21:39
Victory at last Gerry!
But seriously thanks for he explanation of the various Victory`s - well useful.

Joseph
10-04-2009, 22:09
Before and after WW1 at Portsmouth

'Victory I' Accounting Division for Military Branch

'Victory II' Accounting Division for Stokers and ERA's

'Victory III' Accoumting Division for Misc

Regards Charles

SCRG1970
11-04-2009, 15:31
Charles

Thanks for those additions , they will help someones queries I am sure.

Regards

gerry

jupiter1
03-08-2009, 10:48
Hi,
I have two uncles who served in the first world war at sea.
It is believed that they served on both HMS Victory and HMS Powerful at different times.
There names were Arthur CONNAH and Albert Ernest MATHEWS, spelt as MATTHEWS in some documents.
MATHEWS was a ships pantry hand/cook.
I have a photo of CONNAH in uniform, there is a anchor with 3 stripes underneith it on his left arm.

How could I get a photo of these ships and their service information please.
Many thanks,
Phil H.

alanbenn
03-08-2009, 12:12
Phil, welcome to the forum, Hms Victory during world war1 was not actually a ship but a base, several departments were spread around and were used as accounting bases for Naval personnel, they may have been attached to ships or bases that were controlled by Victory.....here's the list, documents would show a roman numeral next to the name Victory.

HMS Victory - Flagship Portsmouth & barracks 1840 - 1974
HMS Victory II - Crystal Palace - Training depot RN Divs 1914-19
HMS Victory III - Portsmouth Accounting Sec 1914-17
HMS Victory IV - London/Portsmouth/Petersfield RNR 1914-17
HMS Victory VI - Crystal Palace depot for RNR & RN Divs 1914-19
HMS Victory VII - Portland auxiliary patrol depot 1915
HMS Victory IX - Reserves Portsmouth 1915-16
HMS Victory X - Portsmouth accounting section 1917-19


I've attached a photo of Hms Powerful....cruiser.


Regards
Alan

David Verghese
17-08-2009, 19:21
Hello Charles and Gerry,

Regarding your posts of 10- & 11-04-2009 ,they have indeed helped me, a mere ordinary seaman, in connection with unravelling the apparent mystery a Shore Establishment. It was Victory 2 (as stated on the service record of an E.R.A.),amongst other RNSEs, that I was seeking clarification when I recently took a look at the book "Shore Establishments of the Royal Navy" by Lt.Cdr. Ben Warlow RN.

It is a real can of worms to find one's way around the nomenclature of these organisations as indeed the above author attests to in his preface to the book. Actually I wonder if it isn't some dastardly plot, hatched in the bowels of the Admiralty or Naval Intelligence, to fool both the enemy of the time and future amateur naval historians!
I am also trying to unravel the exact delineation of: Drake 2-4 and Drake II-6 from the period 1947-8. Are "2 "and "II" the exact same? and are the suffixes -4 and -6 simply different buildings in the same complex at Plymouth? I say this as I look at a past picture of HMS Drake posted by batstiger.

I have searched without success for a specific picture of HMS Victory 2 (or II) from around 1940 (+/- 4 years). Hopefully a past Tiffy or Stoker might have one. Will astraltrader come to my rescue?

Thanks and regards
David

SCRG1970
17-08-2009, 21:13
David

As far as I can guessitimate "2" and "II" will refer to same establishment. The suffix 2-4 I havent come across before.

A photo of Victory II may be a bit dissappointing as it would only be wartime buildings ,it didnt even have a designated ship.

Regards

Gerry

benbow30
17-08-2009, 23:15
Regarding Victory 1v I have just looked at my s459 service cert. and it is mentioned there it was when drafted to a small ship and all your pay records were kept.At the heading it says ship or tender in brackets. i.e. Sea Eagle Derry Suadron, Pembroke1v Chatham,Phoenicica Malta, I beleive they were parts of the ships office in Barracks.
Hope that thows some light on the subject.
Benbow30

angela turner
15-10-2009, 05:37
My name is Angela Turner and I am enquiring about my late Fathers' time in the Navy during WW2. His name was Thomas Valentine Byrne, Service No JX307943. He came from Farnborough. Our family emigrated to Australia in 1966. I have his navy papers but his surname is incorrectly spelt as Bryne.He had mentioned that he was torpedoed on two occasions, which puzzles me as the two ships he was on are shore based ships. Can anyone solve this mystery? He was an electrician by trade and trained personnel in the use of anti aircraft guns. I would also like to obtain a photo of him in his uniform. The attatched[hopefully...first attempt at anything like this!!] is a picture taken on his wedding day in 1947 which would be of similar likeness time wise. Look forward to any replies.

Cheers Ang

alanbenn
15-10-2009, 08:40
Angela, welcome to the forum.

If you could scan the papers you have of your fathers naval history and post them onto the forum there are several people here who will help decipher them for you.

This will open up lots of new info for you to follow up on.

Look forward to seeing them.

Regards
Alan

limeybiker
15-10-2009, 14:15
My name is Angela Turner and I am enquiring about my late Fathers' time in the Navy during WW2. His name was Thomas Valentine Byrne, Service No JX307943. He came from Farnborough. Our family emigrated to Australia in 1966. I have his navy papers but his surname is incorrectly spelt as Bryne.He had mentioned that he was torpedoed on two occasions, which puzzles me as the two ships he was on are shore based ships. Can anyone solve this mystery? He was an electrician by trade and trained personnel in the use of anti aircraft guns. I would also like to obtain a photo of him in his uniform. The attatched[hopefully...first attempt at anything like this!!] is a picture taken on his wedding day in 1947 which would be of similar likeness time wise. Look forward to any replies.

Cheers Ang


Welcome Ang,

Many Small Ships, Submarines and small inland establishments, I.E, Wireless Stations, were attached to either Mother Ships and or an RN Barracks, The ships name would have a roman numeral in brackets after the name I.E. H.M.S. Victory (IV).

angela turner
16-10-2009, 00:05
Dear Limey Biker!!
Thank you for your reply. I can see I have a lot to learn about the Navy but with a little help from you guys hopefully I will get to the bottom of the mystery torpedoing and along the way find out more about Naval life on Whale Island during WW2.

Cheers Ang

angela turner
16-10-2009, 00:32
Dear Alanbenn,
Thank you for your reply. As soon as I can work out how to get foolscap size paper to fit into an A4 size scanner, we will be in business! Computer skills are sadly lacking, but I am learning.

Cheers Ang

limeybiker
16-10-2009, 02:10
Dear Alanbenn,
Thank you for your reply. As soon as I can work out how to get foolscap size paper to fit into an A4 size scanner, we will be in business! Computer skills are sadly lacking, but I am learning.

Cheers Ang
Just do a half a page at a time

angela turner
19-10-2009, 03:39
Angela, welcome to the forum.

If you could scan the papers you have of your fathers naval history and post them onto the forum there are several people here who will help decipher them for you.

This will open up lots of new info for you to follow up on.

Look forward to seeing them.

Regards
Alan

Hi Alan, Here goes, attatched scans of Dad's Navy Papers59436

59437

59438 Yea!

Recently I had written to the Naval Museum at Cornwall and they suggested that as my Dad didn't join the RN until1942, it was possible he transferred from the Merchant Navy and perhaps that would account for the reference of being torpedoed?? ie being on another ship or ships.

Ang

Bee
19-10-2009, 06:13
Hi Ang,
Welcome to the forum and well done on getting into posting. Hope you can continue to find more information about your Dad.
Like you, I'm here on behalf of my late WW2 veteran father....you'll find this is a great place for information, although it is somewhat addictive as there is so much information and so many interesting people and stories.
Also like you, our family came out to Australia in the early 60s, and have been here ever since.
Regards,
Bee

nogrub
19-10-2009, 09:31
Angela.
The term wireman was the former title to electricians mate.
CP was cinema projectionist, which means he done a course on the operation of Cinema Projectors mainly 16 and 35 mm projectors.
He advanced from OS (ordinary seaman) to L/H (leading hand), before his discharge.
I am sure there are other people who will add to this.
Good luck in your enquiries.
Regards
Harry

Stan.J
19-10-2009, 10:53
Angela,
You downloaded form S.-459 pages 1 and 4 only if you open it up pages 2 and 3 give the names of the ships he served on plus any examinations he passed..
Cheers Stan

alanbenn
19-10-2009, 19:32
Angela, well done on posting the service documents.

The 2 ships shown are as you already knew Shore establishments.

After his initial training at Victory he spent the rest of his time at Hms Excellent. Which was a gunnery training establishment maybe this is his reference to training gunners.

His subject of cinema projectionist was a very specialised one and it would be no surprise to find that he may have been attached to a ship or several that could show films....ie the 'pathe' news reels very popular during the war for everyone. It maybe that he was only on the ships a short while before moving to the next, hence the reason they don't show on his records.

This could also explain his recollections of being torpedoed.

He was awarded one good conduct badge and 3 war chevrons.

Regards
Alan

angela turner
22-10-2009, 00:49
Angela.
The term wireman was the former title to electricians mate.
CP was cinema projectionist, which means he done a course on the operation of Cinema Projectors mainly 16 and 35 mm projectors.
He advanced from OS (ordinary seaman) to L/H (leading hand), before his discharge.
I am sure there are other people who will add to this.
Good luck in your enquiries.
Regards
Harry

Harry, Many thanks for your explantion of the naval terms. He kept his interest for making and showing films for many years. After the war he worked on Climate and Wind Tunnel testing for the Concorde and when we came to Australia, worked at Woomera on rocket testing. In later years he became an avid Radio Ham and took a keen interest in Amateur TV. My Mum used to dispair as the outside looked more and more like a Russian Trawler with the errection of many aerials!!

Cheer Ang

qprdave
22-10-2009, 15:08
cinema projectionist

He would have been a very popular person on board ship. Asked to bring the equipment down the mess to show a movie and be well paid (in liquid form). Although it looks as if he didn't get to sea.

tim lewin
22-10-2009, 16:38
I remember seeing "the Magnificent Seven" in a very crowded mess deck of HMS Urchin, I must have been about 15 at the time, projected onto a sheet tied to the underside of a ladder so that the projector had to be on the floor pointing upwards at about 15 degrees, it was this adaptability of Jack that made me understand my fathers own appreciation; as Chalky used to repeat oft and frequently, theres nothing a British boy (especially in the Andrew) can't do....
tim

Seeing for the first time....

ceylon220
23-10-2009, 15:48
Angela on your Dads conduct sheet: #7 the final signature is F R Twiss. Lt RN. who was only released from a Japanese prison camp 6 months previous to signing your Dads form, He was my Captain in 1958/60 when serving aboard the cruiser CEYLON, he was later promoted to Admiral after leaving the ship -----just mentioned thi s in case it was of some interest to you.

Regards.
Dave.

angela turner
11-11-2009, 04:18
Dear Dave, Many thanks for your reply. I have been on holiday in Queensland and Western Australia hence the delay. I found your reply very interesting. What an ordeal for your old Captain, being in a Japanese Prison camp. It would be great if I could find someone who knew my dad who is still alive. I am still trying to locate a photo of him.
Cheers Ang

angela turner
27-01-2010, 23:40
Angela, welcome to the forum.

If you could scan the papers you have of your fathers naval history and post them onto the forum there are several people here who will help decipher them for you.

This will open up lots of new info for you to follow up on.

Look forward to seeing them.

Regards
Alan
28/01/2010
Dear Alan, Happy New Year to you and yours!! I have recently found out that my Father met my Mother in Leuchars Air Base in Scotland when she was stationed there in the WAAF's. What was he doing up there, I wonder? Could this be where he was torpedoed? Any information about what would have been happening in that part of Scotland at the time would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers Ang:)

Scurs
28-01-2010, 10:08
Angela............further to Dave220's posting.............I was onboard CEYLON same time as him, and one of the places we went "flag showing" was Yokohama, Japan. Imagine what it must have been like for Captain Twiss, suffered badly as POW and now had to be diplomatic and hospitable to those same people.
Nowt to do with your research, but just "matters arising".
Incidently I spent quite a bit of time at HMS EXCELLENT myself, but of course it was post war.

williamt
28-01-2010, 12:54
[quote=angela turner;78952]My name is Angela Turner and I am enquiring about my late Fathers' time in the Navy during WW2. His name was Thomas Valentine Byrne, Service No JX307943. He came from Farnborough. Our family emigrated to Australia in 1966. I have his navy papers but his surname is incorrectly spelt as Bryne.He had mentioned that he was torpedoed on two occasions, which puzzles me as the two ships he was on are shore based ships. Can anyone solve this mystery? He was an electrician by trade and trained personnel in the use of anti aircraft guns. I would also like to obtain a photo of him in his uniform. The attatched[hopefully...first attempt at anything like this!!] is a picture taken on his wedding day in 1947 which would be of similar likeness time wise. Look forward to any replies.

Hi Angela
I have just read your enquiry about your late Father, the service number should read P/JX307943 if so he was a Portsmouth rating. What was the name of the two shore based ships
Best Regards
Bill Thorpe

angela turner
03-02-2010, 05:16
Dear Willamt,
Thank you for your reply. My Dad was on HMS Excellent and HMS Victory. These are the two listed on his navy papers. No other ships have been listed. Is it possible that he was on others that are not listed? He met my Mother at Leuchars Air Base during the war.I wonder what ships were up there at the time? Any ideas???
Cheers, Ang:

angela turner
03-02-2010, 05:27
Angela............further to Dave220's posting.............I was onboard CEYLON same time as him, and one of the places we went "flag showing" was Yokohama, Japan. Imagine what it must have been like for Captain Twiss, suffered badly as POW and now had to be diplomatic and hospitable to those same people.
Nowt to do with your research, but just "matters arising".
Incidently I spent quite a bit of time at HMS EXCELLENT myself, but of course it was post war.

Dear Scurs, Thank you for your reply. I agree with your comments about having to be diplomatic. You say you were at HMS Excellentpost war. What was it like? I am trying to build up a mental picture of what daily life would have been like for all of these men. Of course it would have been a lot easier to have asked my Dad!!!!! He met my Mum at Leuchars Air Base in Fife Scotland during the war, what was he doing up there? Would he have been on ship? He mentions being torpoeded, could it have been there??

Cheers, Ang

Kaz Mulliner
11-01-2012, 11:35
OK so given the above breakdown, am I correct in my assumptions that my Grandad would have been based in Portsmouth
HMS Victory (Aug 1941 to Nov 1941) Why is this listed as 2 terms & not listed as (Aug 1941-May 1942)
HMS Victory (Nov 1941 to May 1942)
HMS Victory (Sept 1944 to Aug 1945)
HMS Victory (Dec 1945-Feb 1946)

But unsure about these dates? Was this Wantage or Leydene? Can you help me with what the (KB) stands for on his first secondment here?

HMS Victory III (KB) (7th May 1942 to 1st Oct 1942)
HMS Victory III (2nd Oct 1942 to 20th Apr 1944)

Thanks
Kaz

Kaz Mulliner
11-01-2012, 17:05
My post on http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11948 (http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11948) may be of interest to relatives who served at HMS Victory/Victory III or Mercury between 1941-1946. It's picture of crew from my family archive, which does not contain anyone from my family! I can only assume my Grandad took the picture.

If anyone can shed any light on those in the pic, I would be grateful.

Kaz

Tuska
27-08-2012, 10:19
Hey everybody. 1st post and not sure which forum to post it in..!!

I've just got hold of a copy of my Grandad's naval record and i have a question. In 1923 he is posted to Victory XI (Badminton).

Now, i can see that Victory XI is Portland, but what is the reference to Badminton.? One of the very few photos that we have of him in uniform has him with a Badminton cap rim.

Also, he seems to have joined up as Boy II aged 17, and served aboard The Royal Sovereign at the end of WW1. Was this normal? I mean, to be under 18.

Lastly, his occupation is listed as Tool Maker Improver. Can anyone shed any light on what this actually meant.?

Many thanks for any help.

limeybiker
27-08-2012, 13:57
Hey everybody. 1st post and not sure which forum to post it in..!!

I've just got hold of a copy of my Grandad's naval record and i have a question. In 1923 he is posted to Victory XI (Badminton).

Now, i can see that Victory XI is Portland, but what is the reference to Badminton.? One of the very few photos that we have of him in uniform has him with a Badminton cap rim.

Also, he seems to have joined up as Boy II aged 17, and served aboard The Royal Sovereign at the end of WW1. Was this normal? I mean, to be under 18.

Lastly, his occupation is listed as Tool Maker Improver. Can anyone shed any light on what this actually meant.?

Many thanks for any help.

HMS Badminton was WWI Minesweeper. I found this in a search, if you can find the document it may help.

michael Osborne
30-04-2014, 14:31
Hi everyone. Not sure how I got onto this theme but I have a copy of my great uncle's naval service and he stated out as a Stoker 2nd Class at Victory II but on 21 June 1898. This seems to confirm comments about Stoker training establishment, though in 1889 HMS Asia was also apparently used for Stokers initial training, but was obviously operating from an earlier date than so far mentioned. Clement Osborne 289049 was also at Victory in 1905 and 1907 then at Victory II in 1909. Could the definition 'holding/transfer ship' also be used for this shore establishment?

Destroyerman
30-04-2014, 15:40
Reading through the very interesting posts on this thread has got me thinking.

When we joined up we were allocated a Home Port Division: Devonport; Portsmouth or Chatham. Generally speaking, these Home Ports were the main, with the exception of Fleet Air Arm etc.

The Barracks at each of these locations were: Devonport (HMS DRAKE); Portsmouth (HMS VICTORY) and Chatham (HMS PEMBROKE).

Portsmouth (HMS VICTORY) obviously, judging by the foregoing, had many satellite establishments. But I cannot remember either of the two other Home Port Divisions having similar numbers of satellite establishments.

Anybody remember??

Sandy.

jbryce1437
30-04-2014, 15:45
Looking through lots of service docs, there are many references to Pembroke I,II, III etc., and Vivid I,II, and III etc. These references were mainly used until the end of WW2. Not sure where all of those satellite bases were though.

Jim

Destroyerman
30-04-2014, 15:56
Thanks Jim.

Sandy.

jainso31
30-04-2014, 15:57
Pembroke I,II and III were Chatham ,Chatham and London respec.
Vivid I,II and III were all Devonport-so far as I am aware.

jainso31

Destroyerman
30-04-2014, 18:27
Thanks also for that Jim (jainso31).

I must have spent far too long at sea not to have learned about these satellite establishments.:o;)

By the way, when I joined I was allocated Devonport as my Home Port Division, on the basis that it was closest to my (then) home in Northern Ireland.:rolleyes: I could never see the logic in that, catching a train up to London, then getting a connection to Heysham, Lancashire and finally catching the Heysham-Belfast passenger ferry.

Chatham would have been much more convenient.:D

Sandy.

jbryce1437
01-05-2014, 19:41
There were lots of satellite establishments, but the terms I, II, III, etc., many appear to have been phased out after the war. Whilst the suffixes were used for the main Naval Barracks, there were other instances of them being used. Some of the more common ones used for the three Naval Commands were:

HMS Pembroke I - accounting base at Chatham between 1940 and 1960.
HMS Pembroke II - Royal Naval Air Station at Eastchurch between 1913 and 1918.
HMS Pembroke II - accounting base at Chatham between 1940 and 1957.
HMS Pembroke III - accounting base at London and outstations between 1942 and 1952.
HMS Pembroke IV - accounting base at Chatham between 1919 and 1920, and the Nore between 1939 and 1961.
HMS Pembroke V - naval base at Dover between 1919 and 1923
HMS Pembroke V - Bletchley Park between 1941-1945
HMS Pembroke V - used for WRNS personnel in London 1945 -1946
HMS Pembroke VI - accounting section at Chatham in 1919.
HMS Pembroke VII - depot ship for auxiliary patrols at Grimsby between 1919 and 1921.
HMS Pembroke VIII - naval base on the Humber between 1920 and 1921.
HMS Pembroke X - headquarters of the Royal Navy Patrol Service at Lowestoft between 1939 and 1940.

HMS Victory I - Accounting base, 1940, “The Goodings”, nr. Lambourn, Berkshire.
HMS Victory I - Release and Dispersal point for Seaman Ratings 1945
HMS Victory II – Training and Accounting base for Stokers 1890’s
HMS Victory II - A Training Depot for the R.N. Division, 1914-19. Sometimes referred to as HMS Crystal Palace
HMS Victory II - at Crystal Palace, Sydenham, Surrey
HMS Victory II - Release and Dispersal point for Engineroom and Miscellaneous Ratings 1945
HMS Victory III – Portsmouth, Accounting base , at Woolley Park, Wantage, 1940 -1945
HMS Victory IV – Accounting base at Crystal Palace, until 1939, merged with HMS Victory III at Leydene House, Petersfield, 1941-45
HMS Victory IV - Release and Dispersal point for Officers and WRNS Ratings 1945
HMS Victory V - the South Western Hotel, Southampton, 1941. In 1942 it was renamed HMS Shrapnel
HMS Victory VI - Crystal Palace depot for RNR & RN Division 1914-1919
HMS Victory VII - Portland Auxiliary Patrol Depot, 1915
HMS Victory IX - Reserves Portsmouth 1915 -1916
HMS Victory X - Portsmouth Accounting Section 1917-1919
HMS Victory X - Release and Dispersal point for ratings from RN Barracks, Portsmouth – RN Camp, Stamshaw 1945
HMS Victory XI - Portland, Naval Depot 1920’s later named HMS Boscawen

HMS Vivid – The first RN Shore Barracks, Devonport.
HMS Vivid I - Signals Training School, Devonport, until 1941.
HMS Vivid II - Accounting base Devonport
HMS Vivid III – Accounting base, Devonport, 1917-1918
HMS Vivid IV – Accounting, Falmouth, 1918
HMS Vivid IV – Accounting, Queenstown, 1922/3
HMS Vivid V – Accounting, Milford Haven in 1919.


Jim

RoyCPearce
06-01-2015, 17:32
I am new to this so please accept my apologies if I am approaching this all wrong!
I have been tracing my late father's WW2 Royal Navy service record and have found a considerable amount of information from the National Archives and the internet but I have hit a stumbling block on which I would appreciate some help.
There is a considerable amount of information on this particular thread but I am a little confused.
My father's service record shows that he was at "HMS Victory IIII RDF Training" in January, February and March 1943 and again in October of that year. I assume that "HMS Victory IIII" relates to HMS Victory IV and that it was likely based in Portsmouth but that is as far as I understand it.
Does anybody have any further information, please?
Thanks
Roy

jbryce1437
06-01-2015, 17:51
I presume he was in the Communications branch. As per post #78, Victory IV will have been at Leydene House (http://www.eastmeonhistory.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Leydene-House-compilation1.pdf) at the times you mention
You are welcome to post a copy of his Service Record here and we will be happy to explain anything which puzzles you.

Jim

RoyCPearce
07-01-2015, 13:00
Hi Jim, thanks for that. However, I had checked on this and Leyden House is designated as HMS Mercury so that is what is confusing me. His service record refers specifically to "HMS Victory IIII RDF Training". From the information that I have, it seems logical that he would have gone to Leyden House for additional training but it is this reference to 'HMS Mercury' that is confusing!
Regards
Roy

oldsalt
07-01-2015, 13:32
HMS Victory was the title of RN Barracks Portsmouth before the name change to HMS Nelson. Victory would have dealt with pay, service docs. etc.

jbryce1437
07-01-2015, 15:45
Hi Jim, thanks for that. However, I had checked on this and Leyden House is designated as HMS Mercury so that is what is confusing me. His service record refers specifically to "HMS Victory IIII RDF Training". From the information that I have, it seems logical that he would have gone to Leyden House for additional training but it is this reference to 'HMS Mercury' that is confusing!
Regards
Roy

Victory had several satellite/accounting bases of which Victory IV was one. If it wasn't part of Laydene it is possible that, following the transfer of the Signal School there from the dockyard, the section where he did his RDF training may have remained at the Tactical School adjacent to Admiralty House in Portsmouth dockyard.


Jim

harry.gibbon
07-01-2015, 16:00
Victory had several satellite/accounting bases of which Victory IV was one. If it wasn't part of Laydene it is possible that, following the transfer of the Signal School there from the dockyard, the section where he did his RDF training may have remained at the Tactical School adjacent to Admiralty House in Portsmouth dockyard.


Jim

The following from PDF page 5 of 15 (doc page 4) in the short history of the Royal Naval establishment HMS Mercury - MercHist1. pdf on rncca.com (http://www.rncca.com/PDF%20Docs/MercHist1.pdf)


Rapid expansion.
Not all the courses previously run at the dockyard school could be transferred to Leydene. Fleet Air Arm ovservers went to Eastleigh, where
morse classrooms were set up and RDF operators to Valkyrie on the Isle of Man.


Don't know if that is of any help.


Little h

jbryce1437
07-01-2015, 18:25
Thanks Harry. I have seen records listing Valkyrie and they are recorded as that, or Valkyrie II, so I assumed Victory IV was quite separate and nearer to Portsmouth.
Have a look at this:
http://www.sstohms.co.uk/contents.htm
http://www.sstohms.co.uk/hmsvictory1.htm

Jim

RoyCPearce
07-01-2015, 20:17
Thanks Jim and Little h for your additional information.
Regards
Roy

jbryce1437
07-01-2015, 21:04
Another interesting page (RDFhttp://www.sstohms.co.uk/rugby1.htm)from that site mentioned previously, about
Amongst my records, I found an entry for a Stoker at Victory IV:
Victory IV Stoker 2nd Class from 6th February 1942 until 8th June 1942
So the draft wasn't confined to Communications Ratings
Interesting article here (http://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Tech-HFDF.htm)on the development of Radio Direction Finding
In 1942, HMS Collingwood is listed as being the Radio Direction Finding School (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pbtyc/RN/Establishments.html#1900-%201945).
Do you know which branch/rank your father had in the RN Roy?

Jim

harry.gibbon
07-01-2015, 22:12
Not just Comms Branch as you say Jim.

According to this account (http://www.russianarcticconvoymuseum.co.uk/wp/portfolio-view/james-kirk/), members of the Seaman Branch also attended HMS Valkyrie.


Little h

benbow30
07-01-2015, 23:29
Do not forget the Victory Barracks at Southsea not far from Clarance pier where new entrants joined in the 50s all so i believe was the wrens accommadation
Benbow 30

jbryce1437
08-01-2015, 09:06
Not just Comms Branch as you say Jim.

According to this account (http://www.russianarcticconvoymuseum.co.uk/wp/portfolio-view/james-kirk/), members of the Seaman Branch also attended HMS Valkyrie.


Little h

Thanks Harry, it looks like Radar Operators also trained at Valkyrie

Jim

RoyCPearce
08-01-2015, 13:41
Hi Jim,
He was an Able Seaman on HMS Palomares from 22 June 1941 to 15 January 1943.
Temporary Acting Leading Seaman at HMS Victory IIII RDF Training from 16 January 1943 to 13 March 1943 (during that time he was 'lent' to Yeovilton from 8 February to 22 February) and continued in that rank from 14 March 1943 to 30 September 1943 aboard HMS Warspite.
He remained in that rank when he was at HMS Victory IIII RDF Training again between 1 October 1943 and 25 October 1943 and, between 10 October and 24 October, he was shown as "Passage". Perhaps, he was travelling to another establishment.
He was still in that rank of Temporary Acting Leading Seaman when was shown as "Duty - Passage" between 20 October 1943 to 29 October 1943 and joined HMS Isle of Sark in this rank on 30 October 1943 until 15 January 1944 when he became a Temporary Leading Seaman on board HMS Isle of Sark on 16 January until 20 February 1944 when he was 'lent' to HMS Heron until 29 February and he returned to HMS Isle of Sark on 1 March 1944 until 31 March when he was 'lent' to HMS Heron again from 1 April until 5 April returning to HMS Isle of Sark on 6 April 1944 until 6 November 1944.
He remained in this rank for the remainder of his service being at HMS Pembroke from 7 November 1944 until 4 December 1944 and then HMS Pretoria Castle from 5 December until his discharge on 22 December 1945.
Regards
Roy

RoyCPearce
08-01-2015, 14:07
Sorry Jim, I was called away but I can now provide some further background information on that which I provided earlier.
There seems to be very little information available regarding HMS Isle of Sark except that it was hired as a radar training ship from 22 December 1941 until June 1946.
HMS Pretoria Castle was an armed merchant cruiser and escort aircraft carrier having been bought outright by the Royal Navy in July 1942 for conversion to an escort carrier. She was commissioned in that role in July 1943 and was operated as a trials and training carrier seeing no active combat service.
I think that HMS Pembroke has been mentioned earlier in this thread and, if my memory serves me correctly, it was a training establishment!
Regards
Roy

jbryce1437
09-01-2015, 18:44
With the dispersal of functions away from the area, due to the threat of bombing, Victory IIII may have encompassed any of the places mentioned in this (http://sussexhistoryforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=7621.0;wap2) piece. I suppose there could have been some confusion with the abbreviation, which could be either Radio Direction Finding or Radar Direction Finding.

Jim

RoyCPearce
10-01-2015, 16:36
Thanks Jim

Regards
Roy

KenY
11-01-2015, 08:15
Hi Jim, thanks for that. However, I had checked on this and Leyden House is designated as HMS Mercury so that is what is confusing me. His service record refers specifically to "HMS Victory IIII RDF Training". From the information that I have, it seems logical that he would have gone to Leyden House for additional training but it is this reference to 'HMS Mercury' that is confusing!
Regards
Roy

Roy, RDF Radio Direction Finding..the fore runner of radar. But HMS Victory was mainly the keeper of records, these were spread across the south of England so all the eggs were not in one basket when the bombs fell, I am out for the day but I shall do some research when I get back,

Ken Y