Admiral Kuznetsov

[astraltrader]

For those of you who are not right up to date with the current World Naval picture then this recent bit of news might well prove to be of interest...
During mid-January the Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov was seen passing through the straits of Gibraltar en route to the Atlantic Ocean.
She is at the moment the only Russian carrier in service and prior to this outing it was not known exactly what state of sea-worthiness she was in.
At the time of sailing through the Straits she was part of a Russian naval strike group comprising also the missile carrying cruiser Moskva armed with 16 SS-N-12 Sandbox long-range surface-to-surface strike missiles, the Udaloy-class large anti-submarine destroyers Admiral Levchenko and Admiral Chabanenko, and the supply ships Sergei Osipov and Nikolai Chiker.
Her flight deck was loaded with Su-33 Flanker fighters, Su-25 Frogfoot close air support aircraft and Ka-27 helix helicopters.
A Croation military site recently published a phenomenal series of photographs of the carrier as she sailed through the straits. Her flight group looked potent and up for it. The carrier herself was noticed to be belching more black smoke than would normally be expected and the condition of her hull could only be described at best as being extremely weathered.
Giving due acknowledgement to the forum - "Maketarstevo" I show a few of the photographs for you to see...

[herakles]

I think it's fairly clear that the Ruskies are rattling the can right now. Trouble is that the can has a hole in it.

My understanding of the Russian fleet stationed in the Black Sea is that they couldn't catch mackerel.

[ozpirate]

OK this is an interesting question but does anyone know where the Admiral Kuznetsov is currently as at September 2009?
I need to make contact with someone on the ship that could help me with pictures of the ship. Currently I'm building a scale 1/72 model of this ship.
http://picasaweb.google.com/Mick.Elst

Mick
Sydney Australia

P.s. I'm not a spy just keen to get some good close up images. :o

[Krieg1981]

OK this is an interesting question but does anyone know where the Admiral Kuznetsov is currently as at September 2009?
I need to make contact with someone on the ship that could help me with pictures of the ship. Currently I'm building a scale 1/72 model of this ship.
http://picasaweb.google.com/Mick.Elst

Mick
Sydney Australia

P.s. I'm not a spy just keen to get some good close up images. :o

As far as I know, she should be in Severomorsk at the moment!

[designeraccd]

And now-eventually-she will get new planes, too! WOW!! DFO :eek::rolleyes:

New fighter jets for Admiral Kuznetsov
2009-09-25




Russia plans to buy 24 new MiG-29K fighter jets for the country’s only aircraft carrier, the Severomorsk-based “Admiral Kuznetsov”.
A contract on purchase of 24 fighter jets for Airwing Kuznetsov could be concluded within two years, a source in the Ministry of Defence told news paper Vedomosti. Landing drills with the planes on the “Admiral Kuznetsov” can start already this autumn.

Russia has 19 Su-33 aircraft carrier fighter jets. They need to be replaced within 2015, so the question of providing new planes is highly relevant. Russia is currently producing MiG-29 jets for India.

[mik43]

Not being a plane buff as such, like looking at them as I do at ships but that is about it, but is the MiG 29K a naval variant or will it have to be strengthened in any way?

Good bit of info DFO, keep up the good work and while your at it see if you can dig up some more pix for our modelling friend!!!!!

Mik

[ObiWanRussell]

Not being a plane buff as such, like looking at them as I do at ships but that is about it, but is the MiG 29K a naval variant or will it have to be strengthened in any way?

Good bit of info DFO, keep up the good work and while your at it see if you can dig up some more pix for our modelling friend!!!!!

Mik

The K in Mig-29K stands for Kobral, or shipboard variant if memory serves. The prototype Mig-29K was a contemporary of the SU-33 (originally called the SU-27K) and the Soviet Navy had plans to deploy both types aboard their carriers (Kuznetzov, Varyag and the follow on nuclear powered Ulyanovsk class). Trials were carried out between 1989 and 1991, but the fall of the USSR and the following economic collapse meant the cancellation of orders. The first batch of SU-33s had already been built, along with a small number of navalised two seat 'Frogfoot's for pilot training, and the Russian Navy had to make do with these aircraft for the next two decades to fill out the Kuznetzov's air group. The SU-33 is a little on the large side for the ship (it is a squeeze to get it into the hangar due to it's height) and the Mig-29K is a better fit all round. Now that the Indians have funded the full development of the Mig, It makes sense to 'piggyback' an order for the Russian Navy onto the Indian order. The SU-33s are probably wearing out by now, so this is the cheapest and easiest replacment program available.

[mik43]

thanks obiwan

Mik

[davep]

thanks for the pics obiwan, there is a good article on the mig29 in this months airforces monthly

[ObiWanRussell]

To further answer the original question, the airframes of the SU-33 (SU-27K), Mig-29K and the Frogfoot were strengthened considerably to withstand the shock of deck landing compared to the land based variants. The undercarriage was also strengthened as well, though compared to USN aircraft, the nose oleo was not altered to permit catapult attachment. There has been some speculation about this, as the Russians had clearly opted in the early 80s for the ski jump launch method as opposed to the steam catapult. Official Soviet models of the follow on Ulyanovsk class, which was essentially an enlarged Kuznetzov layout with an extra lift to port aft, show a ski jump at the bow (but with a different bow form, suggesting possible later conversion to flat deck) with two side by side launch positions as in the earlier ships, but on the angled deck are two steam catapults (arranged as in US carriers) and twin turbo prop AEW aircraft are usually shown on deck as well.

My own interpretation is that the intention was for the two Kuznetzovs were to establish an initial True Carrier capability (following on from the Kiev class, which were to recieve the YAK-141 in order to remain viable, considering the failure of the YAK-38 Forger in service) as STOBAR ships, and the Ulyanovsk class (intended for series production) would introduce the full range of carrier aircraft to begin to match the USN Carrier battle groups. It would have take decades to achieve the requisite numbers of course, but a fleet size of around six strike carriers plus four Kievs was probably achievable by 2010. The Kievs would have been replaced by new build Ulyanvosks in due course (or a successor class) provided their machinery held out that long. The two Kuznetzovs would I believe have been upgraded with two steam catapults on the angled deck by now as well, allowing them to embark similar air groups to the Ulyanovsks. As with the CVFs, I believe the design included provision for them to be installed at a later date. As to the aircraft, The Migs and Sukoi's although not designed for nose tow launching, could probably have been designed for later modification to the wire bridle method, which would have meant providing fuselage hardpoints and strengtening at key points underneath. Later on, the catapults spools could simply be attached to the aircraft at these hardpoints and they become catapult capable. Without a close look at the fuselage structure, it's hard to say for sure, but the mods to the design would have been fairly straightforward in the first place, and the Soviet Designers, although not experienced with naval aircraft design per se, probably had access to detailed western designs courtesy of the KGB...

[mik43]

that's a brilliant piece obiwan, well done

Mik

[r.morrison]

It seems that KUZNETSOV does not go very far unless at least one sea going tug is in range.

It is a pity that this ship seems to be bugged by tehcnical problems. At least it doesn't lose its propeller like the CDG !

As for the YAK 141, has anyone seen the famous video of the crash on GORSHKOV ? Apparently the pilot ejected with no harm coming to him.

At least the ejector seats seem to work OK (remember the mig 29 at the PARIS air show in 1989?)

"alea ejector est........."

[designeraccd]

Moscow set to upgrade Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier
The Fleet Admiral of the Soviet Union Kuznetsov, currently the only aircraft carrier serving as the flagship of the Russian Navy, will be upgraded, the media (Russian) reported, quoting Navy sources.

The aircraft carrier, due to enter a dry dock in 2012, will be re-launched in 2017.
Originally laid as the Leonid Brezhnev in 1982, launched as the Riga in 1985 and renamed as the Tbilisi in 1987, the warship received her current name in 1990.

Western analysts call her a ship of a thousand names. DFO :)

[steve roberts]

Hi DFO.Is she to become a full conventional take off carrier or will she retain the ski jumps for VSTOL aircraft.I would not be too surprised if she went into dock and never emerged,or maybe only as a stationery show piece.They seem to be finding the money somewhere for a limited number of new smaller ships,but a full conversion of an air craft carrier? That sounds a bit improbable.They could of course have an increased income of Rubbles,selling natural gas and oil to the Chinese.:D
Regards Steve.

[designeraccd]

NO details as to what the work will entail that I've seen...other than a LONG time! DFO :D

[designeraccd]

from Russian sources..............


Moscow set to upgrade Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier
© ru.wikipedia.org/Related NewsRussia to start building naval pilot training center in 2010
Russia to finalize plans for new aircraft carrier by 2012
Russia to build nuclear-powered 60,000-ton aircraft carrier
What future for carrier aviation?
Admiral Kuznetsov. INFOgraphics.
17:4506/04/2010
The Fleet Admiral of the Soviet Union Kuznetsov, currently the only aircraft carrier serving as the flagship of the Russian Navy, will be upgraded, the media reported, quoting Navy sources. The aircraft carrier, due to enter a dry dock in 2012, will be re-launched in 2017.

Originally laid as the Leonid Brezhnev in 1982, launched as the Riga in 1985 and renamed as the Tbilisi in 1987, the warship received her current name in 1990. Western analysts call her a ship of a thousand names.

The Admiral Kuznetsov entered service with the Russian Navy in 1991 and was used for the operation of deck aircraft, the development of new tactics, including those for dealing with carriers of theoretical enemies.

In the late 1990s and the early 2000s, it was repeatedly proposed that the Admiral Kuznetsov, which remained moored for long time periods, be decommissioned and sold for scrap.

However, an improved situation in the country gave the ship a new lease of life. Her propulsion unit and other equipment were repaired, and she started taking part in various high seas war games more often.

In the mid-2000s, Navy representatives and Russian political leaders once again started speaking of the need to build aircraft carriers for the Navy. Moscow decided to preserve the Admiral Kuznetsov, used to train deck aircraft pilots.

The upcoming large-scale modernization was motivated by the need to eliminate the ship's inherent drawbacks and to repair some of her units. Plans for docking the ship in 2010-2012 were discussed more frequently and have now been confirmed.

Although it is hard to assess the revamped carrier's specifications, her future appearance can be predicted on the basis of available reports.

First of all, the defective propulsion unit comprising steam turbines and turbo-pressurized boilers will be replaced either with a gas-turbine or nuclear propulsion unit. REALLY??????...DFO
The ship's 3M45 P-700 Granit (SS-N-19 Shipwreck) anti-ship cruise-missile launchers will be dismantled, and her internal layout changed. Consequently, the hangar area will be expanded to 4,500-5,000 sq. m. for storing additional fixed-wing aircraft.

The Admiral Kuznetsov's air defenses will be strengthened by replacing 3K95 Kinzhal (SA-N-9 Gauntlet) missiles with a multi-role naval system featuring 80-120 new-generation and medium-range surface-to-air missiles (SAMs).

Moreover, 4-6 Pantsir-S1 (SA-22 Greyhound) combined short to medium-range SAM and anti-aircraft artillery weapons systems will be installed.

The new weapons systems will feature state-of-the-art radio-electronic equipment, probably including the standard Sigma combat information and control system, due to be installed on all new generation Russian warships. The system facilitates unprecedentedly effective cooperation between task force elements.

The carrier will also receive aircraft catapults, a logical option. Considering the fact that her ski-jump will remain intact, one or two catapults can be located on the angled flight deck.
A similar engineering solution was envisioned for the incomplete Ulyanovsk super-carrier, whose keel was laid down in 1988, but the project was cancelled when it was 40% complete along with a sister ship in 1991 after the end of the Cold War.

By that time, the Soviet Union had developed steam catapults and tested an experimental version at the ground-based NITKA training facility incorporating a ski-jump and deck arrestor. Consequently, this task is feasible.

The choice of catapults is linked with the choice of the ship's propulsion unit. Steam catapults require a nuclear propulsion unit, while a gas turbine propulsion unit leaves no choice but electromagnetic catapults. Moscow will either have to develop such catapults independently or buy them abroad, or ... copy them illegally.

The carrier's air wing is to comprise 26 new Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29K Fulcrum-D multi-role fighter aircraft, helicopters and navalized Sukhoi T-50 PAK FA (Future Frontline Aircraft System) fifth-generation fighters, currently under development. It appears that 15-20 of these aircraft will be built pending the ship's re-launching, which is likely to take place in 2020 rather than 2017.
The opinions expressed in this article are the author's and do not necessarily represent those of RIA Novosti.


The comments about cats needing a NUKE powerplant rather shows this reporter's KNOWLEDGE now doesn't it? I wonder how, for example the non nuke JFK launched all the planes it did-with STEAM CATS? Putting a all new, especially nuke, power plant in her seems rather cost prohibitive given her age...to put it very mildly. Gas Turbines, for a ship this size? Possible, but?????? DFO :eek::rolleyes:

[hucks216]

I agree with Steve - I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't emerge from the refit. The Russians have a habit of putting a ship into refit, or building a new ship, and then running out of money less than half way through as has happened numerous times leaving them rusting & rat infested. She was never the most reliable of ships in the first place, much less after her major engine room fire, hence why when she deployed (admittedly not very often compared to other carriers) part of her group included a large ocean going tug.

[designeraccd]

Now wouldn't that be a SHAME...if she didn't get rebuilt? Do you see the tear forming???!

One does wonder tho what the chicomz PLAN on (geddit?) for engines for the x-Varyag? Or maybe they just enjoy PAINTING the big hulk? DFO :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Don Boyer]

I find it interesting that some other countries struggle to manufacture the effective attack aircraft carriers they THINK they need, Russia being the prime example. There are other countries in the same boat.

I think what happens is:

a) Too much expectations of secondary roles, such as carrying a big load of anti-ship missiles. This is akin to the early American and Japanese heavy first line carriers (Akagi, Lexington, et al) retaining 8" guns in anticipation of having to fight cruisers in a pinch.

Or the cruiser/carrier ideas that floated about for years -- half cruiser (or even battleship, as per the old Russian idea) and half carrier. That didn't work well either. If you needed a cruiser, you had about half the guns you needed. If you needed a carrier, you had about half the aircraft you needed.

b) Too much political wrangling over money, size, motive power, etc. This produces carriers about half the size needed to perform an attack carrier role, like the French De Gallstone.

c) Fear of a "big ship" being a "big target" and therefore vulnerable and No. 1 on any enemies' hit list.

The United States, after much experimentation, and the priceless experience of actually using carriers in wartime in five different wars (so far) have come about to the only logical solution, called "Bite the Bullet."

Before WWII and right up to the early part of the war the US took a hard look at their carriers and their battleships, the early versions of which obviously weren't going to cut it in modern warfare. Need a fast battleship? Then you design, PAY FOR and build what's needed, nothing half-measure or interim. That turned into 57,500 tons, a 16 inch main battery, and a secondary and AA battery from hell, almost 900 feet of hull and 220,000 shaft horsepower. That got you what was needed.

Need and aircraft carrier? Then you design, PAY FOR and build one that CARRIES THE MAXIMUM MAIN BATTERY -- aircraft -- and at the speed needed to be effective in huge expanse of the Pacific. That came out to about 40,000 tons full load, almost 900 feet of hull and enormous horsepower...well over 200,000 shp. You could effectively carry around 80 combat ready aircraft with that.

The point of all this is that the US learned their lessons. If you need an aircraft carrier as a power-projection tool, i.e., and attack carrier, then you go to 100,000+ tons, a pair of nuclear reactors, 1100 x 252 feet of flight deck, four catapults, four elevators and you bite the bullet and PAY for them. You do this because anything else is performing that famous bodily function in the wind. And you accept the risk that they are massive targets and surround them with defensive measures carried on other vessels, so the carrier can focus on what carriers do -- launch and recover their main battery.

[r.morrison]

A winters' tale............

Kutznetsov in the cold climes of the Northern Fleet area off SEVEROMORSK

"My monkey is brassed off"

:p

[Don Boyer]

RM:

Why I much prefer to be in the Hawaiian Fleet.... :) I truly hate snow, after half a lifetime around it. I don't do "Northern Fleets"!

The Russians seem to like our home port, but have not really seen any of them here of late. Here is Adm. Shaposhnikov, passing Hospital Point in Pearl Harbor and the small memorial to the USS Nevada in the foreground.

A USN photo from their official website.

[designeraccd]

Ah a bit of snow, cold....makes one APPRECIATE Spring even more! If I can't ride one of my motorcycles I can at least use my TRANSVERSE two-wheeler to get the snow out of my driveway!! Lived in S. Cal for @ 12 years(counting 4 on/off in Marine Corps)...finally realized it was time to head back home to Mid West, still here.....to each his own!!

It is rather hard to see many warships here though, sigh. Then again with Long Beach Naval Station long gone; the Chi-com container ships (there now) just don't thrill me. DFO :D

[designeraccd]

Two new pics (happy JUMPING!)+ one of her LAST jaunt into the Med. All that black funnel smoke reminds me of my favorite carferry: SS Badger of 1952 (still sailing Lake Michigan), but she is COAL FIRED!!!...........DFO ;)

[astraltrader]

I presume that was the 2009 cruise where she was supposed to have leaked a whole load of oil off the Irish coast??

[r.morrison]

Seeing the KUZNETSOV smoking like that makes me think of Para Handys' puffer coming out of Dunoon bay:p

[r.morrison]

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?99988-Russian-Photos-(updated-on-regular-basis)/page2391

This link shows the KUZNETSOV in the docks apparently undergoing extensive repairs and fitting out:cool:

[designeraccd]

Well, at least she will have a nice paintjob!!! DFO :D

[Luca]

New make-up for Kuznetsov, but no major refit (yet?): four fake Sky watch antennas as usual....:D

[r.morrison]

Ru sources (again!) indicate that the the Kuznetsov is "at sea" and engaged in "pilot landing training"

Lets hope the SAR is serviceable !:)

[r.morrison]

Detailed photo showing the de-icing kit on board KUZNETSOV

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?99988-Russian-Photos-(updated-on-regular-basis)/page2816

;)

[designeraccd]

Here is a "CONCEPT" design for a huge follow on Russian CV........



Russian aircraft carrier blueprint to be ready by yearend - Navy chief

MOSCOW: A technical design for a new-generation aircraft carrier will be ready by the end of the year, the head of the Russian Navy said on Monday.

In an interview with RIA Novosti, Adm. Vladimir Vysotsky said several organizations were working on the warship's design, including the Severnoye and the Nevskoye design bureaus.

He said it was too early to say what the new aircraft carrier will look like or what its specifications will be.
"Not even with regard to its displacement. The designers have been given a number of requirements. If they manage to pack everything into a matchbox, they are welcome," he said.

Some Navy experts believe the future aircraft carrier will be nuclear-powered with a displacement of 50,000-60,000 tons.

The admiral said the Russian Navy needs carrier battle groups.

"If, for example, we do not have an aircraft carrier in the North, the battle capability of the Northern Fleet's guided-missile submarines will be reduced to zero after Day One because the submarines' principal adversary is aviation," he said.

Vysotsky stressed that a special state program was needed for an aircraft carrier to be built.

I guess this one falls under the if you are going to dream, dream BIG! Question is: pure fantasy or an actual, serious design study? This article was dated from late 2010. Note the more or less X deck configuration similar to Indias first home built carrier now under construction.

Does anyone have any newer information?........DFO ;)

[r.morrison]

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?99988-Russian-Photos-(updated-on-regular-basis)/page2900

This link shows a series of photos of the 279 Shipborne Fighter Aviation Regiment aboard KUZNETZOV:cool:

[Don Boyer]

The derivative Russian carrier is the usual Russian concept, heavily armed etc. I wonder if they will ever come up with the idea for a catapult, as the ski-jump bow has it's drawbacks in comparison.

I also like the comment that the Russian SSN's biggest enemy is aviation. Do keep that in mind at all times, Comrade. Their biggest enemy is the same as it's always been -- far more capable SSNs. Aviation assets are certainly dangerous, but the real killers are their own kind.

Still, an interesting concept, as usual with the Russians.

[designeraccd]

Maybe the Russians should buy a cat from the PLAN as they are apparently installing one in the angled deck area of the x-Varyag. Note the pixelated area on this composite photo-one might wonder what was censored out?? DFO :confused:


In a fuller view of the pixelated photo it appears that these "tubes" may be at 90 degrees to angled deck...therefore new arresting gear; not cats??? What say you, Don, being the former carrier guy???

[Don Boyer]

DFO, I looked at an enlarged view of that, and can state with absolute confidence, I haven't got a clue as to what it is, and why it was pixelated. I was a bomb type dude, but those units do look somewhat like the vertical tubes that support the guides for the arrester cables from the reels to the flight deck. We need an airdale!

Regards,

[r.morrison]

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?99988-Russian-Photos-(updated-on-regular-basis)/page2960

Still seems to be fitting out:cool:

[ludsie]

The russians certainly built some interesting ships during the cold war and this one is right up there on thelist

[ijozic]

New make-up for Kuznetsov, but no major refit (yet?): four fake Sky watch antennas as usual....:D

I wonder what the Chinese are using on the refitted Varyag.. The photos seem to show the plates still being present - has a similar system been installed? I find it weird that they would keep the plates in place if no ESA radar would be used (unless the plates are just placeholders for the possibility of installing a similar system in future).

[r.morrison]

Open sources declare that KUZNETSOV, ADMIRAL CHABANENKO at least two other ships on their way to the port of tartous in SYRIA........."routine visit, nothing to do with the current events"

US naval forces are there too........calm, ladies please.........:cool:

[r.morrison]

Apparently other ships on their way there notably YAROSLAV MUDRY a neustrashimy class and perhaps a krivak........lets wait and see!:cool:

[designeraccd]

Interesting photos as always, but I wonder if the carrier is actually INDIA's "free" one being outfitted instead?

The bow sides do not look as smoothly faired into the hull form as on Kunetsov; additioanlly a vertical radar mast appears astearn of of island plus offset? The overhead view is of the "free" INDIAN carrier, and her extended flight deck areas are obvious compared to original shape. Note the TYPHOON class moored in front of her.


Thoughts? As can be seen in beam virew of Kunetsov-no radar mast aft of islamd. DFO :confused:

[ObiWanRussell]

Interesting photos as always, but I wonder if the carrier is actually INDIA's "free" one being outfitted instead?

The bow sides do not look as smoothly faired into the hull form as on Kunetsov; additioanlly a vertical radar mast appears astearn of of island plus offset? The overhead view is of the "free" INDIAN carrier, and her extended flight deck areas are obvious compared to original shape. Note the TYPHOON class moored in front of her.


Thoughts? As can be seen in beam virew of Kunetsov-no radar mast aft of islamd. DFO :confused:

The first picture is INS Vikramaditya beyond a shadow of a doubt.