HMS Hermes 1953-1986

[tim lewin]

Musch has been written about the Happy Hermes, my father took command of her in 1966 following a major refit. They sailed soon after for the middle East and later Far East. Sixteen years later he was to despatch the Happy Hermes South on a much more dangerous mission to the South Atlantic. Here are a few pictures but if anyone from those days is really keen to see more, I presented three huge albums of the best of the best of that commission's pictures to the National Martitime Museum as part of the Lewin colection. They are accessible to the public on request.

[tim lewin]

There are many stories about the Hermes Commission, I would love to hear from anyone who was there at the time. I plan a web site about my father's career and your stories of servibg with him are key to its success. These pictures are for you.

[qprdave]

I had nearly 4 great years on the Happy Hermes (1975-78.) Being on small ships previously, I was certainly not very happy about getting a "Big ship" as my last draft. I was at Vernon when I was told the bad news that I had the Hermes. I went straight over to the Divisional Office and put in for D by P. My D.O. Recommended my request as he had the Bulwark. I joined the Hermes at Istambul (?). I enjoyed it as soon as I joined. My D by P came through and I turned it down. When It was near to my discharge (1978) I was asked if I wanted to sign on. I asked if they could guarantee that I could spend the time on the Hermes. This, of course, could not be guaranteed. So I said no.

When I saw the Hermes leaving Plymouth for the Falklands, I had a srong feeling that I wanted to be on it.

Dave Blackwell (A.B.)

[tim lewin]

Good for you Dave, I hope you enjoyed the pictures, altho before your time she is still the same fine old ship. If youwant to see more try asking the NMM for acess to my father's albums. I wonder if you remember him? he was always very strong on support for the seamen branch.
All best wishes, tim

[qprdave]

Obviously I have heard of your Father.
I think he visited us one day when I was on the Naiad (70-72). I couldn't be positive.

[Steve O Tool]

Hi I am just new to this site and am looking up info about the Hermes which my father served as a chef on, I'm not too sure what years at the moment, he is from Dublin and his name is Martin "Barry" O Toole. Just wondering if it rings any bells with anybody???

[fsrocky]

hi to all of you the site looks great. I am trying to find any info on able seaman Richard Faughey who was on the Hermes when she sunk in Ceylon in April 1942 he was my great grandfather i know nothing about him so i anyone has any info it would be gratefully received. I have some photos and postcards of him and his shipmates along with a some of the ship. I hope someone can put me in the right direction.
cheers Rich

[The Sailor]

Post your photos Rich. Let's see them mate. And welcome to our site.

I changed your Hermes title to capital letters. It is another quirk in the software that needs fixing.
One must go back into 'advanced', and change it to capitals a second time.

[John Brown]

Hi Rich

You say you have no info at all so this record from the CWGC site might be of help.

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2111562

Regards....Bob

[fsrocky]

:D Hi
thanks for the info and the link there is so much i want to find out is there anywhere i can find out what he on the ship etc
thankyou Rich
ps the photos an stuff should be on by the weekend

[Batstiger]

Well done Rich let's have the photographs and stuff as you put it, and we will see what we can do for you.

Bob.

[fsrocky]

Here are some of the photos and postcard of my great grandfather and his shipmates, finally got time to upload them.If anyone can help with any info i would be very greatful
Rich

[John Brown]

Great photos Rich

Which one is your Grandfather?

Regards....John

[fsrocky]

Hi john
My great grandfather is in the top left pic and in some of the others

[tim lewin]

I have hundreds of pictures of the next Hermes which I will post again sometime but also a few very grainy shots of the sinking which I will look out and post.
tim

[tim lewin]

I recently found these pictures sent to my father by Hermes Captain Lyn Middleton who commanded her during the Falklands campaign when my fathjer was CDS. During the commission of 1966-7 My father commanded Hermes and Capt. Middleton was a young pilot. Note the reference to the "puff of smoke" in his letter. As usual, there are no captions on the back of the pictures so if you know anyone or can add detail of the day I would be very pleased to hear from you.
Tim

[tim lewin]

Just been catching up on missed threads over the holiday period; i only use my computer for work. Reading the "Future of the RN" thread I noted some debate from Paddy and others on maintainence at sea in carriers or other ships. In the mid-sixties when my father was captain of Hermes he wanted to get the ship home from Australia in time for Christmas to give maximum leave. To complete their planned maintainence schedule ahead of time he steamed the ship on one set of engines while the other was stripped, rebuilt and restored before swapping over and doing the same with the other. They came home all the way non-stop and were home in time. To my belief, this was the first time such an ambitious engineering endeavour had been attempted away from the RAC support (anyone know different?) and possibly the last, has anyone knowledge of it being repeated?
tim

[mik43]

Hi Tim
Yes I know different and one which predates the above. In 1946 whilst part of the British Pacific Fleet, Implacable suffered a most unexpected major defect to her main propulsive machinery, namely the failure of the adjusting block of the Port outer H.P. turbine. Subsequent examination revealed that part of the collar had become detached and fouled the pads. The repair required the ship to be stopped in enemy waters for a number of hours whilst 'a repair job that no naval engineer would have dreamed of undertaking in normal circumstance without bringing the ship into dock'. That is the very brief account, those who have knowledge of what would be involved and the conditions in what the repair was carried out will read more into the above, and be glad they weren't there. On completion the repair drew forth a signal from Admiral Bernard Rawlings Cdr of the British Task Force operating off the coast of Japan in which he stated 'I should like to pay my tribute to what must be the most unusual feat of engineering and a task of unprecedented magnitude to be undertaken by a ship's staff at sea'.
Mik

[Harley]

Mik, I take it you mean 1945 by referring to "enemy waters"? I just had a scan through "They Gave me a Seafire" by Commander "Mike" Crosley who was CO of 880 Squadron - alas, he makes no mention of "Implacable" being stopped.

Simon

[Stan.J]

Checking up on www. Naval-History.net/ 6th.July 1945 left Sydney to join Task Force....
Quote:- after departure,machinery defect made reduction in speed necessary. Detached for repair which was completed without need to return to Sydney.
16th July;- rejoined Task force.

[mik43]

Glad to see that someone is awake out there and saw my deliberate mistake!! Sorry about that folks, yes I should have bashed the 5 and not the 6, so 1945 is correct - had a 'senior moment' caused by the cold weather here!! I've managed to scan the reports now and hopefully they'll appear at the bottom of this e-mail
Mik
Ah - slight problem, may appear later!!

[mik43]

Mystery solved, didn't look in the right folder - try again. Well two out of the three uploaded OK but the third one and the best one didn't. Will try as a separate one.
Mik

[mik43]

Sorry folks, it doesn't want to play
Mik

[tim lewin]

great stuff, so now we know of one other! anyone got any additional contenders for major refurbs at sea?
One minor one that comes to mind was when he was captain of Urchin, '61/2, and en route to Norway the main condensor inlet pipe ruptured due to rust, a perrenial problem with wartime ships. Rather than run up a bill in a Norwegian yard or return home he swung the ship about and steamed on Northwards at a gentle pace sternward taking the inlet pressure off while the blackgang patched the pipe with concrete. A repair that outlasted the ship.
tim

[FTM127]

There seems to be no end to the ingeniuty of highly motivated, skilled men when properly led. We can add courage to that mix for the damage control teams that kept their ships afloat under dangerous circumstances.

Fred

[Harley]

Ach, turns out Crosley did mention it in his book. Damn my eyes!!

"That evening, 3 July 1945, the ship did a 'Dasher' and began to bounce up and down in time with one of the ship's propellers. We soon came to a dead stop. After an hour we began to move once more, but this time the rythmic bouncing changed to a harsh vibration. This was so severe that the paint on my cabin deckhead flaked off and, in spite of its spring attachment, the bulb filament disintegrated.

"At dinner that evening, 'Chiefy' Holt-Wilson told us that one of the main thrust blocks had melted and the vibration was because his engine room staff had locked the offending propeller shaft. As we were trying to make a speed of 20 knots to keep up with the rest of the BPF, the cavitation effects of a 20 foot diameter stationary prop dragged sideways through the water at that speed could be heard by a Japanese submarine for 20 miles. It was also vibrating our soup plates off the table. Things were getting serious. Without ourselves and Indefatigable, the other two carriers-Formidable and Victorious-of the BPF would hardly impress the Americans with their 13 carriers. Chiefy said that he would have to try to fix it at sea. Failing that, it was back to Wolloomaloo docks in Sydney."

Simon

[mik43]

Hi Simon
Are you sure about the 3rd July as I have it from another source - Neil McCart - that Implacable left the anchorage at Manus on the 7th and it happened after that. I put it around the 8th or 9th.
Mik
ps Glad that I'm not the only one having 'senior moments'!!

[jbryce1437]

Its possible that Crosley was recounting the time when the problem occured, the evening of the 3rd July. Naval History Net records that Implacable was deployed with the US 3rd Fleet from 6th July and that, after departure, a machinery defect made reduction in speed necessary. She was then detached for repairs and rejoined the Task Force on 16th. I'm not sure of the exact date of the repair though!

[Harley]

On the same page as the aforementioned passage, Crosley wrote "On 25 June we steamed out of Manus yet again and, taking on a few replacement Seafires and Fireflies from Ponam, we set course for the South. We were making our second rendezvous with Admiral Vian who was coming up from Sydney in Formidable. We planned to give Formidable and Victorious (Indefatigable was delayed in Sydney) a shake-up which they would long remember."

I'll stick with someone who was there! :)

Simon

[mik43]

Hi Simon
Regretably I can't upload the best report of the repair as it is too big. If I can I will try and type it out offline and paste it in that way. On the question of the date of the repair I think we'll have to leave it open for discussion. I take note of your comment but I think I am correct in stating that Neil McCart bases his research on the ships log. Because of the censor all the reports made at the time don't give the date it all happened. Either way at least we do know that it was sometime around the middle of 1945!!!
Mik

[mik43]

Hooray - at last and after much key bashing here is the 'technical' report!!
Mik

From ‘The Institute of Marine Engineers – The Naval Engineering Review’

AN AIRCRAFT CARRIER BREAKDOWN.

Whilst forming part of the British Pacific Fleet force proceeding to join the American Third Fleet in the assault on Japan HMS Implacable experienced a most unexpected major defect to her main propulsion machinery.

The adjusting block of the Port Outer H.P. Turbine failed, and subsequent examination revealed that part of the collar had become detached and fouled the pads. The adjusting block was of the Mitchell type and the collar was severely scored on the ahead side. The shaft collar at the forward end of the bearing had borne against the cheek of the brass – the rotor having moved aft some 3/16ths of an inch – and the dovetailed whitemetal at the forward end of the forward brass had run, the collar in this region being almost black.

Apart from the repair to the damaged part, it was necessary to determine how far round the bearing lubricating system the portions of the whitemetal had travelled, and the extent of the damage, if any, which they had caused to other ‘bearings’. This necessitated locking the shaft in question, an operation only possible by temporary stopping the ship and, in order to release some additional Engine Room Artificers whom it was thought might prove useful in undertaking the necessary examinations and repairs, the opportunity of this compulsory stop was utilised to lock the Starboard Outer shaft too.

There followed the lifting of the pinions and their bearings from the damaged unit, a tricky job to tackle as the ship was again underway and rolling heavily, the examination of main gear wheel bearings, cleaning out lubricating oil drain tank sited immediately beneath the main wheel, and the examination of the thrust bblock sump.

Gauzes were fitted to all bearings and oil pumped round for eight hours, with frequent changes of gauze, until the system was thoroughly clear. The declutching of the H.P. turbine provided a slight test of mechanical ingenuity and human patience, due to the coupling having seized, but eventually it was possible to again stop the ship, unlock the shafts and, leaving them to trail, get underway once more.

All the Port Outer H.P. Turbine bearings were found to require replacement by spares, a job which was proceeded with by the ship’s staff and, thanks to the excellent condition of the spares carried, presented little difficulty; slight bedding and cutting of oil grooves being all that was required by way of mechanical skill. The L.P. Turbines were examined and found to be in good condition.

Then came the question of how to repair the damaged collar which had caused the failure of the adjusting block, and originated the defect giving rise to so much work of a routine and examination character as had already been accomplished. The shaft turning motor was rated for one hour of continuous running only, moreover it drove through the gearing which it was desired to keep trailing and so any assistance which might have been derived from the steady revolution of the damaged collar had to be ruled out. Instead the old fashioned but so often unavoidable method of file and stone had to provide the solution.

The collar had an outside diameter of approximately 17.5 inches and inside diameter of 8 inches and, by the time score marks were finally cleaned off, some eight thousandths of an inch had been removed by the use of what the Naval Stores describe as “Stones Rub”, useful for sharpening a scythe or garden shears but hardly up to the requirements of a job such as that in hand. It was noticed that another piece of metal seemed about to break away from the collar and this was removed and the sharp edges thus left filed up. When the whole job was completed it was within two thousands of an inch true – not a bad performance under the circumstances.

The conditions under which the engine room staff engaged on this work had to carry on where decidedly trying; the temperature never fell below 120 degrees F, and for some of the period it stood at 130 degrees F. Thus it proved necessary to carry on by means of relays and when the one actually working collapsed, another recently revived took has place and so on for some 36 hours.

Those who bore the burden of this task were Warrant Engineer H. Cass, R.N.; Chief Engine Room Artificer S. Williams, and Engine Room Artificer J. Slade, and their summing up of the business was that it had proved a “very good experience” and caused them to feel more than ever appreciative of the sound practical training which they had received in earlier days. They also paid tribute to the manner in which Captain (E) A. D. McGlashan, R.N., the Squadron Engineer Officer who had been flown to Implacable to supervise the work, had handled the situation and given practical evidence of that invaluable asset – Tact.

Commanders (E) D. S. Holt Wilson, D.S.O., R.N., and D. A. Williams, R.N., who had directed the work were able to report the defect completed in time for the whole British Force to keep their rendezvous with the Americans and Admiral Sir Bernard Rawlings, commanding the British Force, signalled “I should like to pay my tribute to what must be the most unusual feat of engineering and a task of unprecedented magnitude to be undertaken by a ship’s staff at sea.”

[Harley]

Hmm, it would seem Crosley is wrong as Winton in "The Forgotten Fleet" also states that "Implacable's" woes began on 6th July.

I do know and admire Neil McCart's work (I have his excellent book on "Oriana"), but then again I've noticed in several books once one historian makes a mistake, one of more others always copy it.

In this case I'll put my scepticism aside and agree that 6th July is the date in question! (How kind of me you say :p).

Simon

[Dave Hutson]

Just been catching up on missed threads over the holiday period; i only use my computer for work. Reading the "Future of the RN" thread I noted some debate from Paddy and others on maintainence at sea in carriers or other ships. In the mid-sixties when my father was captain of Hermes he wanted to get the ship home from Australia in time for Christmas to give maximum leave. To complete their planned maintainence schedule ahead of time he steamed the ship on one set of engines while the other was stripped, rebuilt and restored before swapping over and doing the same with the other. They came home all the way non-stop and were home in time. To my belief, this was the first time such an ambitious engineering endeavour had been attempted away from the RAC support (anyone know different?) and possibly the last, has anyone knowledge of it being repeated?
tim
Hi Tim,
I was on Hermes for that run. I think your Dad's aim was to get us home quickly as we had effectively done two carrier deployments with only a ten day R&R in Pompey to restore and SMP in the middle. Aden withdrawal being the reason. As always he had his ships company at heart and on return to Pompey he personally went to CND to see that his ships company got the drafting preferences they wanted. Mostly successful except for the clankies who historically used to volunteer for the next commission knowing that it meant a good period in Home Port whilst refitting. Unfortuneately having done two deployments it meant she was due out again and sailed one month later east of Suez. It was a record at that time [and I believe still is] 11,800 miles at 18 knots whilst carrying out a full maintenance and our tankers were on time when we needed. Thus when she arrived home she was ready to go again. This is all recorded in Tony Dyson's book "HMS Hermes 1959-1984".

[tim lewin]

Dear Dave, spot on; you must have some private memories of that commission; in return for forwarding you the chapters from Richard Hill's book that cover Hermes will you tell me your yarns for my web site, when i get the time to devote to it?

Not that in Tony Dyson's book he refers to the "perfect circle" as being the result of a steering defect; we both know that it was actually the result of needing to stay in the same place with wind over the deck during the Aden crisis and that as with everything else, most of the time, the steering worked perfectly throughout!
All very best and thanks again
tim

[tim lewin]

Dear Dave,
just to get you going;
A junior watch-keeping officer told me this one long after and in a comfortable retirement in Thailand.
Young lad, just promoted to watchkeeping and given the opportunity to be on the bridge for the first time. Taken up to the door, told what to do , when to be there etc. and given the trick beginning at midnight, told not to be late and to make himself known on entry.
Turns up that night, right time, and taps on the door to bridge.
All is quiet, flying over for the day, most of the ship snugged down while she trogs her way across the Indian ocean.
No answer.
He quietly opens the bridge door and enters.
Pitch black night, dim glow of instruments, cant see a thing after brightly lit passageway.
"is there anybody here"??? asks lad.
"Well, I'm here for a start" says Cap'n dad.
"Thanks mate" says lad, "You can eff-orf now, i'm your relief"
"Well, then, that my cue to leave" says dad. "Over to you gentlemen.
Exits bridge.
It was 10 mins before anyone could stop laughing enough to tell the young chap who he had been speaking too.
He's probably in his sixties now, i wonder if he still enjoys a pint over this.
maybe you remeber who it was?
Now your turn...

Do you remember midshipman Leigh Merrick driving the crane over the side "It was facing the wrong way sir, and both ends look the same"! He's a retired captain now.

[FTM127]

Well, just to let you know the Army has it's share of funny moments too.

As a young Lt. in charge of the Batallion Support Platoon during winter exercises where wind chill got down to minus 70 F at night, I was awoken at first light by the First Sergeant jumping up and down and yelling that the food was all frozen. How can that be, I said. Didn't we hook up extra heat generators last night? "Yes Sir, he said, but come with me." The truth revealed itself directly. A trooper, had put all the heating ducts into his sleeping bag. "Why on earth did you do that, Private.?" Sheepishly he replied. "I was cold, Sir."

We all had cold chow until cookie could thaw out breakfast. Many a time we've all had a good laugh over this, but not that morning.

Fred

[tim lewin]

dear all, thought you might like to share this fine picture of Hermes, 14 July 1970, think the location speaks for itself.
tim

[mik43]

Excellent pic Tim but are you sure that it was 'at night'? I realise the pic is a bit grainy but I can't see any steaming lights etc and wonder if it was taken into the sun which would produce the same effect. But it doesn't detract from it being, as already stated, an excellent pic!
Mik

[qprdave]

I agree with you Mik

They took a similar photo of the Hermes when I was on it in 1975

[qprdave]

Tim.

I know that your Father had such a great and successful career.

How many posts to this forum did he have to make to get to that rank!!!!!!!!

[astraltrader]

Much more than my total!

[mik43]

Nice one qpr!!

Mik

[tim lewin]

Thanks Dave, if this forum had been around in 1998 you wouldn't have stopped him, he loved things like this. He was a real email enthusiast. I just found his lectures on Pedestal on ancient amstrad floppies in locoscript which I am trying to get re-programmed into Word on CD. I will see how they turn out and if any good anyone interested is welcome to a copy.

I cant say about the pic of Hermes, day or night; it is in an oak frame with a little plaque giving the date, HMS Hermes and a tiny enamel crest. I took it out of the frame to clean the glass and decided to scan it at the same time. Glad you enjoyed it anyway.
tim

[qprdave]

I for one would be pleased to have anything that your Father wrote about naval matters, Tim

[tim lewin]

I was just thinking that you were up early, now i see its late! it will be a pleasure to share it.
All best
tim

[iantait]

Its very early in the morning going into Rosyth when the tide was at its lowest as they told us there would be "inches to spare" between the top of the tacan and THE BRIDGE yeh right,not sure about the date though we were inthe Med and alongside in Malta in April and I thought we came back from that trip paid off and eventually towed to GUZZ to go into refit for conversion to Commando carrier smashing photo still

[tim lewin]

Thanks for tghat Ian, it is of course poss the date refers to the presenting of the picture or a social event in the ship rather than the actual date of capture, they were obviously proud of it anyway to select it for framing!
All best
tim

[tim lewin]

Dear All, just to let you know that I have just found a box of 100's of pics of the '66 comission covering the Far Flung deployment etc. Most are pics of activities with the ship's company so if you were there you might be in one. I will begin scanning on monday but here are a few taken at random, most of these would have been album rejects at the time but they are irresplaceable now. I am dubious of the harrier, i think this is delivery of the first sea harrier for which there is celebratory paperwork so we can come back to this later. All the others have dates on the reverse so g/teed to be from the time. I have no idea who the poeple are so please add your own info and captions!


When I say 100's i mean it. There are also loads of wartime 127s and a lot from Corunna in 1957 as well. All will be scanned eventually. They were just in the box at random, and its was a big box. And loads more, all of course unmarked, unlabelled and most with no date!
tim

[qprdave]

You've got yourself a little goldmine there Tim

[Dave Hutson]

Hi Tim,
That was my commission and I am somewhere in the Horseracing shot. Great one of your Dad - it looks typical of him - always somewhere around the ship talking to the lads - he used to visit us in the Main Communications Office every evening after dinner and check the incoming broadcast signal log. One evening I asked him if he had checked the whole log and he said "Yes - why?" - I explained that the RS of the watch had to check the log completely before going of watch and sign the last copy read so the work wasn't duplicated by the next watch - "I see, he said, Pen" and signed the last signal received. After that he signed the log every night with a smile and a wink "All signed POTTS" as he went back to the Bridge.
Note - forget the Harrier shot - we never had any, only Gannets, Buccaneers [809 Sqn] and Sea Vixens [829 Sqn] - one Tiger Moth and an inverted Canberra compliments of the RAF during the Aden withdrawal - but those are stories we have visited before.:)
Regards
Dave H

[tim lewin]

Big thanks Dave; I was pretty sure about the harrier, this must belong with a little wodge of papers to celebrate the delivery of the very first sea-harrier which I will post in due course, the dining table is a foot deep in curly old pics right now and i've already filled 4 files with Hermes and six others with diffrerent subs.

Can anyone recomend a decent negative reader, there are packets of these, mostly 127s with no prints??

[tim lewin]

Dear Dave, do you remember Mid. Leigh Merrick (now Capt. rtd) driving the big orange crane over the side?? "It was facing the wrong way, sir"! there are a few shots of an empty deck with tyre marks leading to a parking space in the oggin and I wondered if this might be the "evidence" post factum!!
tim
Will post later to see it it strikes a chord

[CYLLA]

Hi Tim,

Just a small observation , with the first collection of piccys,.....if you put your mouse over each photo , it shows which was the most popular one viewed.
Well i must say , you can tell it,s a matlow site , the one with the two girls , has the most hits .......it shows we never change, even through age .

cylla

[qprdave]

Cylla

Hmmmmmmmmm
My reason was different!!!!!!!

I thought that Tim had got his dates wrong and I that they were two gunners that were in 7D Mess when I was there in 1975.

I was wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dave Hutson]

Hi Tim,
A couple or corrections to my last. Squadrons were 809 [Buccaneers] 892 [Sea Vixens] 849 [ASW Gannets] 826 [Wessex Eggbeaters].

There were two incidents of "things" going over the side.

1. Feb 1967 the FDO thought he would move a Forklift Truck which was obstructing a Vixen awaiting takeoff. He leapt on not realising it was chocked - leapt the chocks and went straight over the side. We turned away and picked him up by Eggbeater.

2. The second is fuzzy - it was in Pompey when we had returned from the Far East and were hurriedly replenishing to cover the Aden withdrawal - loading ammunition a mobile crane on the flight deck overloaded toppled over the side. The divers reported that when they went down they also found a couple of lorries. Don't recall who was driving the crane but I don't think it would have been a mid.

No. 1 one is probably the most logical.

Your harrier question - Hermes did Harrier trials in Carmarthen Bay in 1979.
She embarked Trials Team Harriers [2] and Harrier Sqn 700A

It was then 1981 that she had her peeled banana fitted and became a Harrier platform.

Hope this all helps.

Regards ....... Dave H

[qprdave]

Your harrier question - Hermes did Harrier trials in Carmarthen Bay in 1979.
She embarked Trials Team Harriers [2] and Harrier Sqn 700A

Hermes did Harrier trials a little earlier than 1979, Dave

I was on her when she did Harrier trials during the winter of 1977/8. We left Portsmouth, wanting bad weather for the trials. ended up near Scapa Flow before we found some.

[Dave Hutson]

I was reading up on your Commission [ASW Carrier ops] and lo and behold I found a reference to those Harrier trials you mention - but they are a bit later than you recall.
The reference I have shows Exercise Octeval followed by a visit to Hamburg and Harrier trials in the Moray Firth ... all this in the fourth quarter of 1978.
How does that sound ....... I am fishing because my commisssion was 65 thru 67.
Reading further I see yet another Forklift fell off Happy Hermes, this time off
the prow in Norway. Seems she didn't have much affection for FLT's.
My ref for Hermes is "HMS HERMES 1959-1984" by Lt Cdr Tony Dyson - foreword by Tim's dad [My Skipper]

The search continues....... Dave H

[qprdave]

I am sorry to disagree with you, Dave. The date that you suggest was not the time that I was talking about. In fact, I left the Navy in April 1978. So I couldn't have been there. Also I never went to Hamburg on the Hermes. I am positive that it was winter 1977/78

I think that we had 5 on board for the trials made up of single and two seaters.

Having been in the mess deck down aft on the port quarter 2 Deck I think. (Can't remember for sure. But is was the same deck as the Quarterdeck). We soon found out how noisy the Harrier was when coming in to land by hovering.

[tim lewin]

some more from the files; i guess all of these pictures capture the life of a ship at sea and viasiting different places. I think the visiting Admiral is Adm Serek Empson? if anyone can put names and places to the pics i would be very grateful.

[tim lewin]

and more............

[Dave Hutson]

Hi Dave, You was there at the time Dave so I defer to you - I thought I had it with Hamburg run then Moray Firth. Must agree with you on the noise. I lived in 2C Mess right below the Cats and it was early morning call each day when flying as the test run was carried out and then the COD Gannet being the first off. I'm off to look at some of Tim's fotties - hadn't realised his dad TT was such a camera buff.

Regards ....... Dave H

[tim lewin]

Dear Dave, I think the photographic dept aboard the ship was the hardest worked of all! the best pics of the commission are bound up into three albums, black with black card pages and about 4" thick but I gave these to the NMM after he died, they have them in their collection. One of these fine days I'll borrow them back and scan them in but meanwhile will continue to post all of the rest with exception of those that are too samey. Dad was never much of a snapper but he did like to make sure they were around to record life aboard!. Can you remember where the ship is with those high barren cliffs in the background? I think it might be Greece, did you not sail into the crater of Santorini?
if they get too dull just let me know and we can move on to another topic.
all best
tim

[qprdave]

"if they get too dull just let me know and we can move on to another topic."

You won't be hearing anything from us, Tim. Keep 'em coming!

[qprdave]

Picture third from last.

Great picture of the Happy Hermes!!!

One of the good things about being on a Carrier. There was always a photographer handy.

One thing, Tim. Do you think that it is a foregone conclusion that if you get command of a Carrier you will get promotion to Admiral? That, of course, if you don't run it aground somewhere on the M25!!!!!!

[Dave Hutson]

Hi Tim, You are spot on with the location. We had just been to Athens and we then passed through to submerged extinct volcano center onward past Santorini on our way to the Suez Canal and the Far East.

There is a great shot of this in Navy News 1954-1994 [All Pictures with many of the Happy H].

If I can master the art of posting pickies I will try and put some of them on. But if I fail my course you are quite welcome to borrow the book.

Keep them coming Tim - Big H was my favourite ship and you know my regard for TT.

Dave H

[Dave Hutson]

Hi Dave, It didn't do the Fieldmouse any harm did it. He was Commander on Adamant in '65 - I remember him acting local Captain when Captain Parker [Hermes after TT] was taken ill in Mombasa - and then I think he went on to run the Unclean, sorry Unseen brigade before overall command for the Falklands. Pretty good pedigree I would say. They used to say if you managed Aide D'camp to Her Majesty flag rank was assured - how true - I don't know.

Dave H

[Dave Hutson]

Hi again Tim,

The one with the Seacat firing prompted a memory.

After they took our guns and left us with just the one [Quad Mount] Seacat we used to wonder how quick they could reload - could they with a 100% success rate against five incomings reload fast enough to stop the fifth one making a mess of our paintwork. :confused:

Dave H

[qprdave]

"making a mess of our paintwork"

It wouldn't have happened Dave. The Buffer and Jimmy would have been on the Flight Deck with Buckets, Scrubbers and Mops to throw at it as backup!!!!!

[harry.gibbon]

"making a mess of our paintwork"

It wouldn't have happened Dave. The Buffer and Jimmy would have been on the Flight Deck with Buckets, Scrubbers and Mops to throw at it as backup!!!!!
Aye and a few spare sets of Nappies from the LSBA me thinks

[Dave Hutson]

Watch we don't get the Dave's mixed up - me Dave H, im qprdave.
Don't put more than one tot in your tea Harry it blurs the grey stuff.

[tim lewin]

These were in a tatty manilla envelope marked Malta; i leave it to you to decide how many are actually Malta and how many are from elsewhere in the Mare Nostrum (Italian for local oggin). Surely someone must recognise a face or two? note the two chums sampling the local brew, is that you Dave??

[Dave Hutson]

Not this Dave Tim them's Wafoos

[tim lewin]

they do look as tho that might not be the first bottle...

more to come in morning.

Changing tack; I tremember there was a thread on the Charybdis/Limbournememorial, I have found a bunch of photos from the 1946 service and will post in due course.

tim

[tim lewin]

The purpose of an aircraft carrier is to fly her aircraft; here are a few pics of that purpose being carried out. Anyone you recognise Dave?
All best
tim

[Vegaskip]

Very nostalgic Tim,Could have been scenes from quite a few Flight Decks from that era, Photo 4, if it had been the 'Vic' the guy astride the catapult could have been me.

[Dave Hutson]

Hi Tim, Great pics bringing back loads of memories. However, the one that really stands alone is the Tiger Moth, watched that from the goofing deck.
The rest with so many launches and recoveries the only ones that really stand out are to near misses and sadly the fatals.

Dave H

[tim lewin]

the fatals were indeed very sad, i will send you the transcript of his tape on this later, it was a bad do at the time and only escaped from by a lot of diplomacy in the air dept. Here is the tigger leaving...

[tim lewin]

Dave, were you there, must have been, when the first night landing of the commission nearly ended with the senior flyer, forget who, trying to land on Bournemouth pier insisting it was the deck lights he could see below? i think i posted the story a while ago.
tim

[astraltrader]

A really excellent group of photos Tim. I just love seeing any picture of the Buccaneer. Also loved the refuelling shot with the Lightning.
Many thanks.

[Dave Hutson]

Sorry Tim, I was probably on watch when that one came through. I am trying to get a friend [Tom Potts] who was a two and half in the Ops Room during the 66/67 commission to log onto the Forum. He was also in Kenya [Mombasa] with me as the Senior Officer Patrol Craft. You dad sent us a Good Luck in Training the Kenyans signal when we first arrived in Mombasa in 1969 - shows how much interest he took in people.

Dave H

[davep]

thanks for those really great pics, maybe if we'd still had big carriers i might even have become a WAFU!
even more sleep than a WE:)

[qprdave]

"i might even have become a WAFU"

That's a bit drastic, Dave!!!!!!

[Dave Hutson]

Hey Dave,

Only WAFU's wanted to be WAFU's. Orrible, Noisy, Stinky things and that was just the Aircraft.

WAFU's code was "Last on, First off - the Deck apes can take it in - oh, and I'll have another egg on my night flying meal".

All real sailors got was Kye and Hard Tack Biscuits.

Dave H

[qprdave]

Hey Dave,

Only WAFU's wanted to be WAFU's. Orrible, Noisy, Stinky things and that was just the Aircraft.

WAFU's code was "Last on, First off - the Deck apes can take it in - oh, and I'll have another egg on my night flying meal".

All real sailors got was Kye and Hard Tack Biscuits.

Dave H
Well said!!!!!

Couldn't agree more

[harry.gibbon]

Yeh boys and they didn't need to be on carriers went right down to the Frigates with helos..... back to the Sqdn you know...

Sorry Jim ;)

Little h

[qprdave]

ooooppppssss, I forgot about our superb artist (Crawl, Crawl, Creep, Creep)

Sorry Jim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Vegaskip]

I never went on a squadron, I was always ships company, I even done six months Damage control/ ventilation Patry, issued with my own wheel spanner and grease gun for servicing the Rod and gear u/v joints.This was in the Ark, we were in a communual mess, so there were Stokers Fish 'eads, Greenies and all sorts

Ps stop snivelin'

[davep]

ah yes i can remember the flight on frigates and destroyers, always last to turn up but first to get home and when they werent there, us WE's had to do rounds of the hanger etc
at least now i'm on a ship with a hanger but no flight deck that will confuse the blighters!:)

[Dave Hutson]

I must admit that when ordered that I was going to DCHQ as POOW for three months communal duty on Hermes I thought "Who the hell have I upset".

On reflection I learn't more about that ship during that period than most in 2 years. Yes, there were plenty of Klankies down there but we were all in the same boat. It was certainly quieter after the Bridge Wireless Office, except when we were cowtowing to the Flyboys who insisted on alternate cats which meant we had to pump 50 tons of ballast port to stbd and vice versa [by hand] every time they launched. Never did get an answer as to why they couldn't do it by computer. Probably getting their own backs on us Fishheads. But that was the attitude of our sisters in the "We fly" world:rolleyes::rolleyes:;)

[tim lewin]

Dear Hermes enthusiasts, I have just found two volumes of photos of Hermes under the commission of Captain Fitch, most are taken around mid-1977. There is also a copy of the Hermes Herald I can reproduce if anyone is interested?

No time to scan now but will do it at the beginning of next week, there are loads of inside shots with plenty of ships company personel, the kite competition and the ever popular horse racing.

Just to whet appetites!
tim

[qprdave]

Tim

1977 That is the time I was on the Happy Hermes. Post everything please!!!!!!!!!!

[Batstiger]

A little bit of Gaussian blur gets rid of those aggravating marks although I may have overdone it a bit.

Bob.

[qprdave]

Thanks Bob. Much better

[harry.gibbon]

Hey look Dave she's turned round and is coming back... yours' is going away;);)

[qprdave]

Yeah

Doesn't matter which end you look at...Still a great ship.

[astraltrader]

Dave please see email.

[harry.gibbon]

Yeah

Doesn't matter which end you look at...Still a great ship.
Yeh mate gotta admit she certainly did the business during her commissioned life afloat!!

[peter l h]

can anyone confirm that HMS HERMES flew off aircraft whilst in VALETTA
harbour,striclty against rules i believe,in the early 60`s.

[rumrat]

Don't know about HERMES Peter but the old ARK Certainly did as the attached photo's show.

Regards
Dave

[TrotOneLower]

Hermes Harrier trials '76. A good year for Loan Drafts...

[harry.gibbon]

Found this whilst on the mooch....

http://www.axfordsabode.org.uk/pdf-docs/hermes11.pdf

and this...

http://www.axfordsabode.org.uk/pdf-docs/hermes12.pdf

and this...

http://www.seavixen.org/index.cfm?fa=contentGeneric.hmhdvawwccqztifx

Tim 'yer main man' gets lots of foto oportunities so hope you enjoy if you have not already viewed these pages

Hope all others enjoy these links also

Little h

[tim lewin]

Well Done Harry! brings back all those stories as though it was yesterday, or the day before!

Dave, I will do the scans probably on wednesday if thats ok, there are at least 40-50 0f them. Would you like the copy of Hermes Herald, I can scan that and mail it to you if you like?
All best
tim

[peter l h]

can anyone confirm that HMS HERMES flew off aircraft whilst in VALETTA
harbour,striclty against rules i believe,in the early 60`s.

Thanks Dave.My memory is obviously not as good as it should be,
regards,
pete.

[harry.gibbon]

...further to my post #12 (the penny has just dropped - wot a sad old git I iz now-a-daze)


http://www.axfordsabode.org.uk/pdf-docs/hermes01.pdf


this is clearly the first page (whose a cleaver geezer then) and to get the remaining pages just click on the link address in the url bar www. etc and replace the two numbers after /hermes leaving .pdf there then click go and there you will have the full volume. There are at least 10 pages for you to have a go at:)

If you have already fathomed it all out why didn't ya let me kno:o:o:o:o:o;)

[TrotOneLower]

...further to my post #12 (the penny has just dropped - wot a sad old git I iz now-a-daz)


http://www.axfordsabode.org.uk/pdf-docs/hermes01.pdf


this is clearly the first page (whose a cleaver geezer then) and to get the remaining pages just click on the link address in the url bar www. etc and replace the two numbers after /hermes leaving .pdf there then click go and there you will have the full volume. There are at least 10 pages for you to have a go at:)

If you have already fathomed it all out why didn't ya let me kno:o:o:o:o:o;)

I have a copy of the whole thing in pdf should anyone require. If so, please PM with e-mail addy, and I'll QSP.

[tim lewin]

Dear All,
Here is volume one of the two Hermes albums from the 1976-7 commission under Captain Fitch; apologies if the pics are a bit Admiral-centric but thats the way it goes with photographers detailed off to cover Adm.'s visits. These pics represent more or less a day in the life of the ship at sea (Dave, maybe you can say where?) as they cover a visit, not a comission. I think the day in question was in '77; note that as an Adm. you not only get to meet a lot of interesting people but you also get to quaff quite a few beers, not sure how many messes there are in Hermes but I don't think he would have had a beer in each.
There are 40+ pics in the book, they are scanned at 300, so it might need a couple of shots to post them all, probably they won't interet everyone but if you were there I am sure you will recognise some faces and depts, perhaps Dave will add some depth to this because, as usual, there is nothing in the books to indicate who, where, when or any otrher useful data.
All best
tim

[tim lewin]

Here is the next batch;52563

52564

52565

52566

52567

52569

52570

52571

52572

52573

52574

52575

52576

[Batstiger]

First class pictures Tim, a brilliant one of the Hermes!

Bob.

[tim lewin]

and the last; I don't know where the Mountbatten meeting was or how it came to be included in this album which was compiled by the ship, they seem to be comparing Invincible with Hermes. It may be the NMM?

[tim lewin]

The next book is a bit smaller and has visits to the stokers and divers, poss only 20 pics. Will do it maybe tmrw.
tim

[harry.gibbon]

Great Tim, just great.... particularily like the apparent informality present in the 5th pic up from bottom your post #2, excepting of course the senior rate at the rear.

Little h

[tim lewin]

Thanks Harry, he was a great believer in equality and that everyone, from captain to cadet, were in the same boat (ship) and that the fate of that ship depended on everyone doing their best in a harmonious team, this thread went through all his posts from ship to ship and higher command right to the end (Falklands) where it paid off.. Its nice that none of these pics are staged, they are just as he wandered round this very familiar ship which clearly was as happy then as he remembered her being 10 years earlier. I will scan into pdf the edition of Hermes Herald that was in the album which will add a bit of scope to the goings on. I hope that some of these pics will evoke some interesting and amusing memories from some of the old girl's people.
More below, there are some more to come but they will need to take a turn later.

[qprdave]

Tim

What happened to the Seamen? I don't remember being confined to our Mess during the stay of your Father. I know that we would have behaved ourselves!!!!!

re. Lord Mountbatten. It must have been before 1976 that he came on board. I joined in '75 to '78 and he didn't come on board in that time.

[harry.gibbon]

Re; Post #7 2nd pic 2nd row:-

did you all know that "happiness in a cuddly bootneck" :confused: apparently its a notice board headline issue:D:D

Little h

[tim lewin]

Dear Dave, I will go in search of seamen immediately but keep in mind, i didnt make the book, perhaps you did not make the appropriate offering to the photographic dept at tot time (beer tokens i guess it was then). Can you recognize many of the faces?
I don't think Mountbatten in aboard ship, it looks like somewhere else.
Anyway, I hope you enjoy the reminder of a happy time in life.
All very best
tim

[qprdave]

Thanks Tim

I do recognise some of the faces. I recognise the Regulators (No. Not for that reason). I'm afraid we soon got to know these faces and kept out of their way. Especially if our hair was a bit longer than it should have been. I didn't get to know many of the Wafu's as they were normally on board for a set time and disappeared very quickly when we arrived at Plymouth/Portsmouth. I did get to know the some of the Royal Marine Detachment very well (Good idea when ashore in not so friendly ports)

[tim lewin]

possibly the seamen were all busy working the ship while all this jollification was going on. This is not the end of the collection but I am "scanned out" for the moment. I am sure the next bunch will produce more familiar faces.
tim

[Bee]

Dear Tim,
How lovely of you to share your Father's albums here - (great photos). He certainly looks like he was a very well respected and liked person as everyone seems very relaxed and happy in his presence.
I'm sure it will bring back lots of happy memories of all those who served with him. You must be a very proud son.
Regards,
Bee :)

[qprdave]

I am sure that you have them somewhere, Tim. I am also sure that your Dad would have searched the ship to find out where his fellow seamen were hiding!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hencore]

Quick practice at adding colour, hope you don't mind. Didn't have time to finish all his ribbons; he's got to many. :D

[TrotOneLower]

Of course you won't see the Sparkers. Too busy sending telegrams and making radphone calls for the lost and lonely.

[qprdave]

That's where all the seamen are!!!!!!!!

Filling out their betting slips and messages home and queuing up to give to the hard worked Sparkers.

[astraltrader]

Fascinating photographs as per usual Tim.

[tim lewin]

Here is the news, courtesy of the HERMES HERALD, sorry if its a bit faded, it was the typewriter in the pics above wot typed it and the MoD was too mean to send a new ribbon, nothing changed in that dept. I could poss scan it and sharpen the print on the computer. See what you think.
Thanks very much for all the kind words, he was a good chap and a great friend, especially in later life when he was in his seventies and i was in my fifties, which neither of us felt. I expect most of you feel that way.
It is a true pleasure to share these memories with all of you who also gain pleasure from them, unshared memories might as well be forgotten memories, and these particular ones are too esoteric to share with just anyone. Although I never took Andrew's shilling i still consider myself a "progeny" of the RN, there was never a time in my formative years when the RN was not in pole position in directing where we lived and how. I remember as a very early teenager when he was away a lot, as was common in those days, feeling a touch of jealousy when he showed me some time after returning the father's day card he got signed by every single one of the ship's company, but I had not been able to give him one from me, later i understood more deeply about being a Navy family, which really insn't much different if your father's a commander or an AB. Having said that, he was a great believer in supporting the families of the ship's company left behind while their menfolk were the other side of the World.
More to come, with great pleasure.
tim

[tim lewin]

apologies but for some reason the upload failed; maybe its too big or maybe its just too many members on the site; i'll try in the early morning but if it still fails I will try to chop it in half and send it in two instalments.
Technika, as our Russian friends would sigh........

[tim lewin]

Dear Hencore, looks great, don't tell me how you do it, you'll spoil my belief in F. Christmas and the denture fairy. Brilliant stuff.
tim

[Batstiger]

I'll second that Tim! Great work.

Bob.

[Hencore]

Thank's! If I get some more time I might finish it off.

It's not a particularly exciting picture, I only used it because mountbattens ribbons are a nice excuse for some colour and I was looking to work on my skin tones.

[tim lewin]

For some unaccountable reason my pdf upload keeps failing re Hermes Herald; anyone got any suggestions?
many thanks
tim

[jbryce1437]

The file size limit is a little over 19Mb, so if file isnt larger than that, there shouldnt be a problem

Jim

[Ciarian]

I am a totally new member to this and am still finding my way around so forgive me if I make mistakes. I am trying to find out the Ports of call of Hermes between July 68 and April 69. I was aboard at the time but my memory is terrible! Can anyone help?

[SCRG1970]

Ciarian

Have a look at Royal Navy World Cruises thread. Not sure if Hermes is there but its worth a look.

Regards

Gerry

[alanbenn]

Ciarian, welcome to the forum. I too was going to suggest the world cruises thread but alas no mention of hermes with the dates you require.

A quick look at the website axfordsabode who has commission books online only has Hermes to up to 1968, may still be worth looking at that one though.

Obviously you could always try the association, here's the link.

http://www.hmshermes.org.uk/

Good luck with your search, perhaps one or two other members maybe able to help you better in some way.

Regards
Alan

[Ciarian]

Thanks Guys,
I'll try your suggestions. I was on the deployment between the dates mentioned. On the way out we called at Capetown, Singapore, Hong Kong, Sydney, Perth and Capetown again and then home. It's the actual dates in each Port I'm looking for. Someone told me that we went to Hong Kong twice and Sydney twice, but I'm having difficulty remembering exactly when.

Ciarian

[Dave Hutson]

Hi Ciarian,

Have just been reading "HMS HERMES 1959-1984 BY LT CDR TONY DYSON2 which covers all her commissions.

Reading the period you are on about it goes as follows:

May 1968 Commissions and off to the FE vis Gibraltar and Cape Town

Aug 1968 Exercise Coral Sands in the Penang Area then off to Sydney

She then exercised again and returned to Sydney to pick up a damaged Gannet which went walkabouts in the Hangar.

Then it was another exercise this time in the Okinawa area followed by a visit to Hong Kong.

Xmas 1968 saw her in Singapore

This followed a vist to Freemantle Australia before passage back to UK with another stopoff in Capt Town.

She finally arrived back in the UK - April 1969.

Hope this answers some of your questions, if so, my pleasure.

Dave H [Ex Hermite 3rd Comm]

[Ciarian]

Thanks Dave,

Absolutly brilliant!! it's filled in almost all of the gaps in my memory. I'd forgotten we had been to Okinawa. Didn't we also stop somewhere for a ban yan? Does the book you've got give you any exact dates for various ports?

Regards

Ciarian

[Bee]

Hi Ciarian Paddy :),
As you can see...the people here try to be as helpful as possible, when possible. Hopefully you'll stay with this forum and share/post some of your snippets too :):). It's great to get new stuff...helps fill out any gaps. Also, thankyou for filling in your profile so promptly...most newbies take some time before they even discover the profile section.
Anyway, welcome,
hope you enjoy your stay here,
Bee

[Ciarian]

Thanks for that Bee, it's nice to be here. Since I've joined I've managed to find out more in three days then I did in five years with Servicepals and Forcesreunited.

Ciarian

[qprdave]

Hi Ciarian

Good to see another Happy Hermes rating come into the Forum. Although I was on Her later than you (1975-78). Great ship and great ships company. Not sure if you know. Admiral Lewin who was Captain of the Hermes somewhere around the time that you were on the Hermes. Well his son is a member of this forum. He has posted photos here from the middle 60s to my time. I done't know if you have done it but use the search facility and put in "Hermes" no HMS. Have a look and see if there are any from your time.

Dave Blackwell

[Ciarian]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for that! I've looked at most of the photos during my research and none appear to be from the time I was on board, although I have few of my own and several official ones from that period, which I shall include one I get the hang of how to do it properly. I'mstill fairly new at this.

Cheers

Ciarian

[qprdave]

You asked for information 1968/69. You don't say what part of 1968 that you joined.

Have you seen this? It's the Commissioning book for 1966/68. If you haven't seen it before then scroll down to the last one.


http://www.axfordsabode.org.uk/comishbk0.htm#Hermes%2059

[alanbenn]

Qprdave, perhaps you should re-read post #3

Regards
Alan

[qprdave]

I'm sorry Alan. I didn't intend to steal your thunder. I just missed the post.

[alanbenn]

Dave, not stealing my thunder, but would have saved you the time looking for it.

Regards
Alan

[Ciarian]

Sorry Dave,

I was on Hermes from 1st April 68 to 4th May 69. The appears to be plenty of information prior to those dates but not after. I do however, have a copy of the ships newspaper, the " Hermes Families Herald " It has the "fourth Commision Issue No 4, Oct 1968" printed under the title. I found it amongst my late fathers possessions. I guess I must have sent it to him back in 68. It's in remarkable condition and full of pictures. Not very good ones I might add, as they are mostly photocopies. I did pick up a lot from this one issue, notably the day we arrived in Sydney, which was Monday the 14th October 1968.

[qprdave]

Do you think, it is possible to scan the Hermes Families Herald and post it?

[Ciarian]

Thank you Dave,

However as there are thirty two pages to this newspaper and it's in Jpeg format, I've had difficulty uploading it. So I have created a link to a mates web page http://www.andrewleader.co.uk/navy/ Where you can view at your leisure.

Regards

Ciarian

[qprdave]

Thanks Ciarian


That is great.
The problem you had with uploading might be the size. The is a limit to how big a file can be.

I am glad that you found a way to get to me.

Again, Thank you

[Benbow]

I have attached a photo of Hermes I took in Sembawang Dockyard in early 69 from the Diamond.

The Diamond also visited Freemantle in early 69 , I think we may have escorted her down. I know we were supposed to have gone on to NZ from Freemantle but that was cancelled and we returned to Singers.

[john.t]

looking at those photos brought back memories ,I was a leading seaman and coxswain of the m.s.m.b. the admirals barge .you could say I took your father for a ride once or twice. Of all the skippers I served under he was the best ,a real gentleman.
My bigest reget is that I lost my copy of the commissioning book, does any one know if it is possable to get a copy .
john.t ex 5Fa mess

[jbryce1437]

Old commissioning books do come up for sale on Ebay from time to time, but you can also peruse the PDF version, and print it off if you wish on Dave Axfords site, which has many commissioning books to view

http://www.axfordsabode.org.uk/comishbk0.htm#Hermes66 - scroll down the page to find the 1966/8 copy

http://www.axfordsabode.org.uk/pdf-docs/hermes05.pdf

Jim

[john.t]

thanks for that Jim. I've just spent a good couple of hours reading it I'll get it coppied off .

[chewitt13]

this is a link for the Indian Navy good old Hermes still at sea

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Viraat.html

[astraltrader]

Wonderful to see her still in use and will be at least until the end of next year.

Wouldn`t it be great if we could get her back then and see her preserved as a floating FAA naval museum - perhaps based at Pompey or Devonport.
It might be the last chance to get a decent warship preserved from the days that we still had a significant navy.

We threw away our heritage when both Warspite and Vanguard were missed for preservation - perhaps this is a chance to slightly redress the situation. When I look and see what other countries have preserved for the education and entertainment of their people [especially America] I get really wound up. As a nation we deserve more than just the Belfast!!:(

[harry.gibbon]

Wouldn`t it be great if we could get her back then and see her preserved as a floating FAA naval museum - perhaps based at Pompey or Devonport.
It might be the last chance to get a decent warship preserved from the days that we still had a significant navy.

Interesting thought Terry however would we still have sufficient dated kit to retro fit sensors for example, to an RN spec ... been a lot of soviet then Bharat kit installed in one of the pics at the end of the link!!

Ok there would be a ski lift, a crane and two bofors ... only joshing... but I imagine the changes would be quite significant ... but something to think about I admit.

Little h

[astraltrader]

I am sure that with a will there would be a way!

[Guz rating]

I am sure that with a will there would be a way!Don't hold your breath Terry. Though a very nice thought.

Regards

Alan

[qprdave]

Unfortunately I don't think there is any chance. The problem is, where would they put it. If they couldn't find room for the Drug Tug (No offence, Drug Tuggers). Where would they put the Herpes...ooops!! a carrier!!!!

[astraltrader]

I would have thought with Devonport seemingly getting more quiet by the day they could find a satisfactory berth there?

Failing that put her in London near Belfast for maximum potential visitors.

If New York can do it with their great ship/air museum then we should as well.

It amazes me that for a country that as recently as 70 years ago headed the largest Empire the world has ever seen and in addition had always been one of the foremost maritime nations, we should have left such a paltry legacy for our descendants to remember.:( - if not - :mad:

[tim lewin]

Back in harness after the hols; anyone know the latest status of HMS Plymouth? or for that matter, ex-HMS Whimbrel, both much easier to preserve than a carrier, even a little one!
What happened to the old 25th of May (Argentina) for which there was a small groundswell of preservation opinion a few years ago.

Thanks for the message about dad from cox of the barge, if you have any private recollections or stories for my collection please PM me when you have time.
All best
tim

[astraltrader]

Tim as far as I know 25th Mayo has now gone to the scrappers.

I just thought Hermes might have been worth thinking about as she has at least another year of service left.

[dwrigg]

These were in a tatty manilla envelope marked Malta; i leave it to you to decide how many are actually Malta and how many are from elsewhere in the Mare Nostrum (Italian for local oggin). Surely someone must recognise a face or two? note the two chums sampling the local brew, is that you Dave??

Hi Tim. Can help with the 4 standing by the greek temple in Athens. They were A/B Stu Prest , a/b Mison and myself L/S dave Wrigglesworth all UC aircrew on 826, and one of the groundcrew who's name escapes me. hope this fills in the gaps.
Regards Dave W

[tim lewin]

Dear Dave, manythanks for that and even more of a pleasure to see that people are still enjoying the pictures; its interesting to hover the mouse over the pictures and see how many views there have bee,, this indicates what kind of pic people like best, tose of the ships company generally get about 25% of pics of the number of views of the ship.
all very best
tim
PS. if you have any personal memories of that commission you can remember, that invloved the captain, please send them by PM to me.

[tim lewin]

During this thread we mentioned several times HMS Hermes and indeed some of you were actually there with my father so I just thought that you might like to read the chapter from Richard Hill's book that covers that period. all my H pics are on the Hermes thread and you've all seen them before but I don't think I have posted the words until now. Maybe one of the moderators will join this post to the Hermes thread?

[astraltrader]

During this thread we mentioned several times HMS Hermes and indeed some of you were actually there with my father so I just thought that you might like to read the chapter from Richard Hill's book that covers that period. all my H pics are on the Hermes thread and you've all seen them before but I don't think I have posted the words until now. Maybe one of the moderators will join this post to the Hermes thread?

Your wish is my command!

[tim lewin]

thanks Terry, so many threads now its really helpful to have someone do their "part of ship" clean-up from time to time!
tim

[harry.gibbon]

Tim, your attached files of Chapter 10 in post #41 ... cracking good read thanks!!!

Good pic too ... aaah those handsome yet potent Bucc's!!!!

Little h

[tim lewin]

Thanks Harry, nice to bring a little pleasure to someone's life! and it does bring it all back doesn't it!

[Dave Hutson]

Hi Tim,

Chapter 10 - Cracking good read ... and that was my commission with TT ... the photos have all been great, especially as mine got lost somewhere in the passage of time.

Coming back to Charybdis/Limbourne - did you everpost the 1946 pictures [My interest being that my good lady's Father went down on the Charybdis]

Regards and keep them coming.

Dave H

[INVINCIBLE]

During this thread we mentioned several times HMS Hermes and indeed some of you were actually there with my father so I just thought that you might like to read the chapter from Richard Hill's book that covers that period. all my H pics are on the Hermes thread and you've all seen them before but I don't think I have posted the words until now. Maybe one of the moderators will join this post to the Hermes thread?

Tim,

Many thanks but your chapters absolutely no substitute for the book, which is extremely well written and gives an excellent 'life & times' snap shot of the RN over that period. I strongly recommend it and have seen copies 'remaindered' at very reasonable prices.

[delboy86]

Just thought I'd mention that there is also a good book on the Hermes by Neil McCart - "HMS Hermes 1923 and 1959" that has a chapter on the 1966-67 commission with lots of photos. Not sure where you can get it but I think it was by Fan Publications who have their own website...

Delboy

[thomo]

How did the term "Happy Hermes" come about???

[Dave Hutson]

Standby for incomings from HH crew members.

Happy Hermes came about because she was always a Happy Ship - she was also a clean ship.

Dave H [Third Commisssion '65 to '67 under Capts TT Lewin, Fieldhouse and Parker]

[steve roberts]

I Have to come alongside with Dave H on that one.She was a Happy ship and a clean one.No one in her Third commission could disagree with that one.Although we had Three skippers in the time,very little changed.She will always last in my memory as 'Happy H'
Many Regards Steve.

[thomo]

Thanks,Dave & Steve.
This question was asked on another web-site and much the same replies from guys on different commissions and branches.I also was on the 3rd commission and agree she was a happy clean ship,but I cannot find a link to the nickname "Happy Hermes"

[thomo]

looking at those photos brought back memories ,I was a leading seaman and coxswain of the m.s.m.b. the admirals barge .you could say I took your father for a ride once or twice. Of all the skippers I served under he was the best ,a real gentleman.
My bigest reget is that I lost my copy of the commissioning book, does any one know if it is possable to get a copy .
john.t ex 5Fa mess

Whilst the Skipper used the Admirals barge for visiting dignitaries,he also had his own smaller barge that was manned by Aircraft Handlers.The crew of the barge 66-67 was Leading Airman John "Jock" Douglas who was the coxswain and also the Skipper's driver,Naval Airman Danny McGuire and Naval Airman Alan Batty were the crew.Sadly Jock Douglas "crossed the bar" a few years ago.

[INVINCIBLE]

Just a couple more pictures of HERMES at the end of Captain Lewin's time in command. He is photographed being presented with a memento from the ship's company prior to promotion and departure. Don't know what the gift was but I suspect Tim will know.

[sierra hotel]

Musch has been written about the Happy Hermes, my father took command of her in 1966 following a major refit. They sailed soon after for the middle East and later Far East. Sixteen years later he was to despatch the Happy Hermes South on a much more dangerous mission to the South Atlantic. Here are a few pictures but if anyone from those days is really keen to see more, I presented three huge albums of the best of the best of that commission's pictures to the National Martitime Museum as part of the Lewin colection. They are accessible to the public on request.


Great pics for me the ship modeler...wow....nice closeups. ;00))

[tim lewin]

i remember the box very well, beautifully made and a treasure that followed him through the rest of his Navy service and to home in retirement. Unfortunately i don't know where it is now, i think it went to my younger brother but he sadly died in 2001 from a brain tumour. Seeing the picture of it, and the obvious pleasure on my father's face is a sharp reminder of happy times!
very many thanks and a tribute to the brotherhood of this forum.
all best
tim

[INVINCIBLE]

Does anyone happen to know the date HERMES sailed to deploy to the Far East in 1960 and whether she sailed from her homeport Portsmouth or from Devonport and where and when she embarked her Air Group.
She commissioned at Portsmouth on 25 November 1959 and the following day she sailed for her shakedown trials before arriving in Gib at the end of the month. Her Air Group included the nuclear capable Scimitars of 803 NAS. She returned to Portland in December. Towards the end of 1960 she sailed for the Med and then went to the Far East to relieve Albion.

Long shot but somebody in the forum may have served aboard at the time or have the commissioning book for that period. Alternatively somebody may own a set of ‘Flight Deck’ magazines covering 1960. My copies of ‘Flight Deck’ only go back as far as 1967.

[Jock3]

After her latest refit they say Hermes can now make 2019 and her 60th birthday at sea, a remarkable achievement if it becomes reality.

An interesting milestone will be next year when she will have served 26 years in both RN & Indian Navy service

[tjstoneman]

According to Neil McCart HMS Hermes 1923 & 1959 (Cheltenham: Fan Publications, 2001), HERMES sailed from Portsmouth on Mon 7 November 1960. Before leaving home waters she operated in the North West Approaches and Irish Sea for a few days, during which time her Sea Vixens carried out missile firings on the Aberporth range. Apparently 804 NAS (Scimitars) were not embarked at this stage, as the book says they flew from UK direct to RAF Gibraltar.

Tim

[INVINCIBLE]

According to Neil McCart HMS Hermes 1923 & 1959 (Cheltenham: Fan Publications, 2001), HERMES sailed from Portsmouth on Mon 7 November 1960. Before leaving home waters she operated in the North West Approaches and Irish Sea for a few days, during which time her Sea Vixens carried out missile firings on the Aberporth range. Apparently 804 NAS (Scimitars) were not embarked at this stage, as the book says they flew from UK direct to RAF Gibraltar.

Tim

Tim,

Many thanks for that - most useful!
Yes Neil McCart's books are very good - I have a lot of them but not the one on HERMES.

[qprdave]

How did the term "Happy Hermes" come about???

She was also a happy ship between 1975-78. A long time to be continually happy!!!

I can't explain what makes a happy ship. It isn't the ship but the crew. One person may say that HMS so and so was a happy ship and someone on it the next commission may say it was the worst ship that he had been on. The Hermes seemed to be happy all it's Royal Navy life.

Requested for discharge by purchase when I found out that I had the Hermes. My D by P came through not long after I joined. I turned it down when I realised what a good ship she was. I told my Divisional Officer that I would sign on for a further 5yrs if he could guarantee that I spent it on the Hermes. He obviously couldn't give that guarantee. I left the navy when my time was up.

Dave

[Powers]

Just a quickie to add to Tim Stoneman's post 182 above - records show that HERMES entered Plymouth Sound at 1130 hours on Saturday 12 November 1960 where she was met by MFV 1061. It appears that she went back to sea later that same day.

Regards.....Paul

[tim lewin]

Happy ship; i suspect the bloke in charge might have some influence on it. I know a lot of you remember Roddy Macdonald, Admiral of the Western Isles? he spent a very unpleasant chunk of WW2 in Fortune in the Indian Ocean with a captain so bad that there was almost a mutinym the story of which he later told to Herman Wouk and which then became the plot for "The Caine Mutiny".... Roddy eventually wrote the tale himself as "The Figurehead" which i thoroughly recommend.
Theoretically the bloke in charge should influence all of the divisions to ensure that there is no bullying, unfairness or opression...
tim

[Derek Dicker]

Mng guys, I never served on a flattop during my naval service, the nearest I got to airey fairys was a 12 month draft to NAS Portland in the control tower 1962/63 during the big freeze. I dirgress, during a visit to Bath last year was looking around second hand rabbit ships and spied a tankard from HMS Hermes, no idea of commission or dates, perhaps some of you old crew members might remember, (see attached)


Derek (Bunts)

[INVINCIBLE]

Just a quickie to add to Tim Stoneman's post 182 above - records show that HERMES entered Plymouth Sound at 1130 hours on Saturday 12 November 1960 where she was met by MFV 1061. It appears that she went back to sea later that same day.

Regards.....Paul

Paul,

Very many thanks for that extra piece of detail – all helps with the jigsaw puzzle. Impressed that you have precise information about something, which happened over fifty years ago now.

[Dave Hutson]

How did the term "Happy Hermes" come about???

She was also a happy ship between 1975-78. A long time to be continually happy!!!

I can't explain what makes a happy ship. It isn't the ship but the crew. One person may say that HMS so and so was a happy ship and someone on it the next commission may say it was the worst ship that he had been on. The Hermes seemed to be happy all it's Royal Navy life.

Requested for discharge by purchase when I found out that I had the Hermes. My D by P came through not long after I joined. I turned it down when I realised what a good ship she was. I told my Divisional Officer that I would sign on for a further 5yrs if he could guarantee that I spent it on the Hermes. He obviously couldn't give that guarantee. I left the navy when my time was up.

Dave

AMP - Assisted Maintenance Programme - Usually a six week period of Maintenance when the Dockyard, or RN Personnel assisted Ships Staff to carry out any outstanding maintenance work as opposed to turning the Ship over to the Dockyard completely.

The third commission was also a Happy Commission as well Dave, despite all the to'ing and fro'ing of the Aden withdrawal programme. We spent a lot of time at sea and not much time at home because of it. I would have liked another tour on her but I think her indoors would have divorced me. Many of the Engineering Branch volunteered as they do on Carriers for the next commission [this was usual to get the refit period in home port before the next foreign leg] but on this occasion it backfired because she did AMP and went out again [Your commission]. Even Terry Lewin couldn't get them out of that one, and I believe he tried.

There was something about Hermes that made her a Happy, and clean ship
throughout. Our late mate Steve Roberts was on her with me and I know he thought the same.

Dave H

[thomo]

AMP - Assisted Maintenance Programme - Usually a six week period of Maintenance when the Dockyard, or RN Personnel assisted Ships Staff to carry out any outstanding maintenance work as opposed to turning the Ship over to the Dockyard completely.

The third commission was also a Happy Commission as well Dave, despite all the to'ing and fro'ing of the Aden withdrawal programme. We spent a lot of time at sea and not much time at home because of it. I would have liked another tour on her but I think her indoors would have divorced me. Many of the Engineering Branch volunteered as they do on Carriers for the next commission [this was usual to get the refit period in home port before the next foreign leg] but on this occasion it backfired because she did AMP and went out again [Your commission]. Even Terry Lewin couldn't get them out of that one, and I believe he tried.

There was something about Hermes that made her a Happy, and clean ship
throughout. Our late mate Steve Roberts was on her with me and I know he thought the same.

Dave H

"The third commission was also a Happy Commission as well Dave, despite all the to'ing and fro'ing of the Aden withdrawal programme. We spent a lot of time at sea and not much time at home because of it"

Why were the carrier groups that provided the support for the Aden withdrawal ignored for the GSM.I know Hermes was on station off Aden until January 68 which I think was the official withdrawal date ???

[David J Ross]

Being a non-naval person; I hope I won't offend anyone if I mention my (minor) connection to Hermes. Born and bred in Barrow, where Hermes was built, threads involving Barrow-built ships catch my attention.

I am told, by my father, that I have been on board this ship. Unfortunately, I was only 18 months old at the time so I have no memory of the event. It was on an open day for families of workers in the shipyard, prior to Hermes leaving Barrow never to return.

[rconnolly]

Good morning/evening Gents. I was wondering if any of you could help me find any information on crew lists for the Hermes before 1966. My grandfather recently passed away and had told us that before they moved out to Australia he was a cook on the Hermes and went on a tour of the far east. Maybe some of you recognise him from this photo I am attaching. Any help anyone can give would be wonderful. His name is Robert (Bob) Cook, and he used to live on Nightingale Rd in Portsmouth.

[AndyA]

Sigh.. Another old ship.. Served on her from 1974 to 1976. Happiest times I can remember in the mob. In 2L3 mess and latterly in the PO's mess. Part of the reason why I ended up in the US was because of our Mayport trip on Hermes

[AndyA]

Thought I would post a few pix of the Hermes during my time onboard. There is a rare picture of Wafus at sea. I only mention this in case any ex FAA ratings accidentally see them and suffer a bout of the vapours :rolleyes:


Hermes is in Grand Harbor Malta in 1977 in the first picture, The Wafus have found their way to the flight deck in the second picture and are trying to sneak up on a sleeping Seaking. The third photo is from the bridge wing going into the Med.

[thomo]

Sigh.. Another old ship.. Served on her from 1974 to 1976. Happiest times I can remember in the mob. In 2L3 mess and latterly in the PO's mess. Part of the reason why I ended up in the US was because of our Mayport trip on Hermes
When I was Hermes 1966 to 1968 it was the starboard watch of the flight deck party (Aircraft Handlers) that was in 2L3 mess. The port watch was 2M2/2N2 mess.

[Dave Hutson]

When I was Hermes 1966 to 1968 it was the starboard watch of the flight deck party (Aircraft Handlers) that was in 2L3 mess. The port watch was 2M2/2N2 mess.

Hi Thomo, I seem to recall that there was a PO's Mess at 2JK2 - I moved there from 2B [Right under the Cats] when a billet became clear. Although nothing much gained because one of the Generators was right beneath that mess.

Dave H

[AndyA]

I was right under the cats too... Lol... Now I can sleep anywhere!

[qprdave]

Andy

I was on the Happy H at the same time (1975-78). First off in 5D mess (Slops and SCR was 6D). Then moved to a mess on the port side down aft next to the sick bay (Sick bay was starboard side) The picture of Hermes at Malta in 1977 doesn't seem right. I joined at Istanbul and then went on to Malta. In 1977 we went over to the States and Norway for 45 Commando winter exercises. I don't remember going back into the Med in 1977. Could the picture be in 1975 before or after Istanbul?

Dave

[astraltrader]

Thought I would post a few pix of the Hermes during my time onboard. There is a rare picture of Wafus at sea. I only mention this in case any ex FAA ratings accidentally see them and suffer a bout of the vapours :rolleyes:


Hermes is in Grand Harbor Malta in 1977 in the first picture, The Wafus have found their way to the flight deck in the second picture and are trying to sneak up on a sleeping Seaking. The third photo is from the bridge wing going into the Med.


Hi Andy - thanks for posting your pictures. Just one thing we now ask that they are sent using the thumbnail mode rather than any other way.
We do this for many reasons, not least of all to prevent any picture from being removed at a later date, which often happens when members use hosting sites such as Photobucket,etc.

That is why our forum does not suffer from posts full of those horrible little white squares containing red diagonal crosses - which indicate a "missing" picture!! :)

Using the thumbnail method is very easy to do [just click onto the paperclip symbol at the top of any reply box].

[AndyA]

Andy

I was on the Happy H at the same time (1975-78). First off in 5D mess (Slops and SCR was 6D). Then moved to a mess on the port side down aft next to the sick bay (Sick bay was starboard side) The picture of Hermes at Malta in 1977 doesn't seem right. I joined at Istanbul and then went on to Malta. In 1977 we went over to the States and Norway for 45 Commando winter exercises. I don't remember going back into the Med in 1977. Could the picture be in 1975 before or after Istanbul?

Dave

It's possible Dave. I had April 1977 written on the back of the picture but it could have been 1975.

[thomo]

I was right under the cats too... Lol... Now I can sleep anywhere!

Andy, I am interested to know how Hermes still had "cats" when you where on it in 1975 ??

[AndyA]

Andy, I am interested to know how Hermes still had "cats" when you where on it in 1975 ??

Good point Thomo.. Having your bunk about 3 feet below the flight deck made night flying an interesting experience cats or no cats Though :)

[thomo]

Good point Thomo.. Having your bunk about 3 feet below the flight deck made night flying an interesting experience cats or no cats Though :)

Andy, 2L3 mess was located under the alaskan highway,I would have thought the noise from Sea Kings & Wessex would not have disturbed your sleep when their pilots gently landed them on the flight deck :confused:

[AndyA]

I was rated up on the Hermes Thomo and moved up to the senior rates accommodation ...true 2L3 mess was no where near the flight deck but my senior rates bunk was about 3 feet below it as I remember. Also the gentle plop of Seakings is not the only source of noise on the flight deck as you well know ......there are running people, tannoy, fuel trucks etc etc. Plenty to keep a young petty officer awake :)

[DavidrHoward]

I served with your father on Hermes. A great skipper and a gentleman

[tim lewin]

Thanks for that, your memories keep him in our hearts and minds....

[sickpup]

Morning chaps

I have a question relating to HMS Hermes and a vehicle assigned to the ship from 13/05/1983-16/04/84 and hope someone might know something about it.

I own an Airportable Lightweight Land rover, also known as a 'puddle jumper' Navy registration 03-RN-23 that was assigned to HMS Hermes in the dates above and listed as 'Enhanced Shore Support'.
I have spoken to a few people and no one can be quite sure why Hermes had an Airportable Land rover although it has been suggested it was actually a fleet air arm vehicle.
Usually I am told Navy vehicles were Blue with RN on the door whereas mine is Deep Bronze Green with Royal Navy along the rear tub sides.

So the questions are...

1. What is 'Enhanced Shore Support'?
2. Does anyone have any memories of Land rovers, especially mine on board Hermes or know what they were used for?
3. Does anyone have any pictures of Land rovers in use on Hermes?

Thank you in advance.

Regards

Pup

[thomo]

Morning chaps

I have a question relating to HMS Hermes and a vehicle assigned to the ship from 13/05/1983-16/04/84 and hope someone might know something about it.

I own an Airportable Lightweight Land rover, also known as a 'puddle jumper' Navy registration 03-RN-23 that was assigned to HMS Hermes in the dates above and listed as 'Enhanced Shore Support'.
I have spoken to a few people and no one can be quite sure why Hermes had an Airportable Land rover although it has been suggested it was actually a fleet air arm vehicle.
Usually I am told Navy vehicles were Blue with RN on the door whereas mine is Deep Bronze Green with Royal Navy along the rear tub sides.

So the questions are...

1. What is 'Enhanced Shore Support'?
2. Does anyone have any memories of Land rovers, especially mine on board Hermes or know what they were used for?
3. Does anyone have any pictures of Land rovers in use on Hermes?

Thank you in advance.

Regards

Pup

The drivers of the landrovers were Aircraft Handlers, I will ask some of the guys from the branch, that might have been onboard, if they have any info about this one.

[thomo]

Morning chaps

I have a question relating to HMS Hermes and a vehicle assigned to the ship from 13/05/1983-16/04/84 and hope someone might know something about it.

I own an Airportable Lightweight Land rover, also known as a 'puddle jumper' Navy registration 03-RN-23 that was assigned to HMS Hermes in the dates above and listed as 'Enhanced Shore Support'.
I have spoken to a few people and no one can be quite sure why Hermes had an Airportable Land rover although it has been suggested it was actually a fleet air arm vehicle.
Usually I am told Navy vehicles were Blue with RN on the door whereas mine is Deep Bronze Green with Royal Navy along the rear tub sides.

So the questions are...

1. What is 'Enhanced Shore Support'?
2. Does anyone have any memories of Land rovers, especially mine on board Hermes or know what they were used for?
3. Does anyone have any pictures of Land rovers in use on Hermes?

Thank you in advance.

Regards

Pup

sickpup,
I have sent you a PM

Thomo

[DCBain]

Two more photographs of Hermes off Kerrera in 1979 in the set at :

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dcbain/sets/72157627832404624/

BFN
David

[BlackBat242]

I have a question concerning manning levels of Hermes R12.

Virtually every source I have found lists her manning while still a fixed-wing catapult-equipped carrier as 1,830 crew plus 270 air wing personnel.

I find this hard to believe, as her near-sister Centaur had a manning of 1,028 crew + 362 air-wing while also fitted with steam catapults. This was with both operating the same number of aircraft, the main difference being Hermes operating Buccaneers and Centaur operating Scimitars.

In addition, the Indian Navy is operating her with a manning of 1,350 including air wing.

That 1,830 crew level is even more puzzling when you consider that Hermes had a manning level of 1,035 crew + 900 troops as commando carrier; compared to Albion/Bulwark's 980 crew + 750 troops as commando carrier.

The crew levels are nearly identical here... so what would produce that inflated crew number in RN fixed-wing service... and where would they put all those people?


Does anyone have any primary source (ship's personnel log, crew supply requirements lists, deck log, etc) that would show how many crew and air wing were actually aboard during her deployments?

[kyle0253]

Wasn't HMS Hermes a similar shape and class to HMS Victorious

[Shinysheff]

Victorious was from an earlier class, Hermes was a modified Centaur class I think.

[tim lewin]

Hermes was laid down as a Centaur class (to be named Elephant) with a displacment of 23,000 tonnes which made her notably smaller than Victorious which weighted in originally at 30,500 tonnes. Hermes was built just after the war, luanched in 1953 and not finally completed until 1959, by the time of completion she was so different to her original planned configuration she was reclassified as a one-off "Hermes class" carrier; here are her vitals stats with Victorious in parenthesis...........
Length 744 feet (781)
beam 90 feet (103)
Beam over flightdeck 144 feet (147)
Draught 28 feet (31)
Engines Parsons 78.000 SHP (Parsons 110 SHP)
Boilers 4 Admiralty type (6 Foster Wheeler)
Screws 2 (screws 3)
Complement in 1960 2,100 (2.200) including airgroup
Flying machines 45 (54) as of 1960 configuration.

Hope this is helpful to the debate, i just happened to have my little "Hippo book" price 3/- in 1962 on my desk! (British Warships by Laurence Dunn Assoc RINA)

[BlackBat242]

That figure of 2,100 is the one I am having problems with... as her near-sister Centaur had a total complement including air group of 1,390 with the same boiler/turbine fit, the same catapult fit, and the same air wing (in 1960)!

Why would (and how could) Hermes have 51% more crew in the same-sized hull with virtually identical equipment fit?

After all, in 1960 the main difference was Hermes had her forward elevator on the port deck-edge while Centaur had hers on the centerline.

[Dave Hutson]

Tim / Blackbat ,

In June 1960 after all trials and with her full airgroup embarked she sailed for the Med with a full complement of 1643 Ratings and 189 Officers. This figure was to alter downwards later to 1200 Officers and Ratings plus her Airgroup.

My source is "HMS HERMES 1959-1984" by Lt Cdr Tony Dyson RN. [Foreword by your dad Tim]

Dave H

[BlackBat242]

Tim / Blackbat ,

In June 1960 after all trials and with her full airgroup embarked she sailed for the Med with a full complement of 1643 Ratings and 189 Officers. This figure was to alter downwards later to 1200 Officers and Ratings plus her Airgroup.

My source is "HMS HERMES 1959-1984" by Lt Cdr Tony Dyson RN. [Foreword by your dad Tim]

Dave H

OK... that makes sense... "War" complement vs "normal" complement.

The text is not quite clear whether this was inclusive of exclusive of airgroup... it could be taken either way, and it seems most have taken it as "exclusive of".

Thanks very much.

[tim lewin]

I am still in touch with a couple of old Hermites, Leigh Merrick, now a retired Captain but then a Mid, and Mike Cole-Hamilton who flew gannets; incidentally, Mike was educated courtesy of Auntie May, the patron saint of Tribal Class destroyers. I refer of course to Dave's commission of 66/7. Mid Merrick was the one who directed the crane overboard.....
tim

[tim lewin]

forgot to say, for those really really interested in that commission, i have passed the Captain's Sea Orders books over to the NMM, they are available for anyone to look at on request.
tim

[scouse]

Remember being on her 68/69 and the fast passage back from Freemantle to Pompey 15 days and no flying stations iirc :)

[tim lewin]

Dear old dad was very proud of that achievement Scouse, it took some planning to get permission to undertake the planned maintainence at sea to get the ship home in time for Christmasl; would love to share your memories of this in more details if you can write about it?
good luck
tim

[Dave Hutson]

Remember being on her 68/69 and the fast passage back from Freemantle to Pompey 15 days and no flying stations iirc :)

This was also done in 1966 when she was under the Command of TT but for a different reason. We were in Fremantle and ordered to return to Portsmouth to prepare for the Aden withdrawal. This passage 15 days , never came below 18 knots , all RAS R/v's dead on the button , complete self maintenance programme completed by ship's staff. Arrived Portsmouth , five days leave each watch , complete restore and rearm , sailed on time back to the Middle East - then started the fun and games of do we / don't we . We certainly found out where Gan was.

Dave H

[scouse]

Dear old dad was very proud of that achievement Scouse, it took some planning to get permission to undertake the planned maintainence at sea to get the ship home in time for Christmasl; would love to share your memories of this in more details if you can write about it?
good luck
tim Nice one Tim... But we spent Xmas in Singapore, and arrived home in April, after the fast passage. Think the reason for the FP, was to give leave to both watches on arrival, at Pompey. Then the ship was to be redeployed Home/Med ?? as there was a carrier shortage at that instant IIRC. I was drafted off the ship at Pompey for my 1st choice Lossiemouth :):) Thought i was going back on Buccaneers:) but hey ho, Station Flight for you oppo.... :D Luvely Jubely PS go to FAA Buccaneer Association web page and click on 801 Sqdn... Shed loads of photos of the Happy H

[davidjeanharris]

Hi everybody- I’m a new member.
The Hermes was my father’s (Stan Harris) last ship before leaving the service. He was on the commissioning and first tour from Sep 1959 to May 1961. He died in 1984, anybody remember him on the Hermes?
I’ve got a photo of the Hermes from 1959 if anybody wants it!
David

[scouse]

Hi everybody- I’m a new member.
The Hermes was my father’s (Stan Harris) last ship before leaving the service. He was on the commissioning and first tour from Sep 1959 to May 1961. He died in 1984, anybody remember him on the Hermes?
I’ve got a photo of the Hermes from 1959 if anybody wants it!
David Yes please. Please post it. Think she was flying Scimitars,Sea Vixens,Gannets and Whirlwinds then iirc??

[BlackBat242]

1960-1962:
804 sqn. 8 Scimitar F1;
890 sqn. 12 Sea Vixen FAW1;
849 sqn. C flt. 4 Gannet AEW3;
814 sqn. 5 Whirlwind HAS7;
Ships Flight 1 Dragonfly HR5

[paulus]

Dear Hermes enthusiasts, I have just found two volumes of photos of Hermes under the commission of Captain Fitch, most are taken around mid-1977. There is also a copy of the Hermes Herald I can reproduce if anyone is interested?

No time to scan now but will do it at the beginning of next week, there are loads of inside shots with plenty of ships company personel, the kite competition and the ever popular horse racing.

Just to whet appetites!
tim

A bit late in the day but; nice one of Hermes in her Commando role... thank you Tim.:)