USS Reuben James: First US Warship Lost WW2

[Abbeywood.]

Yesterday marked the 70th anniversary of the first US warship loss during the Second World War, when the USS Reuben James, DD 245, was sunk by U-552, west of Iceland, (51 59N - 27 05W), with the loss of 115 men.
The 'James was part of the escort of east-bound convoy HX 156 which comprised 42 merchant ships, none of which were attacked by a U-boat.
Despite a heavy oil slick and the need to investigated sound contacts, the destroyer USS Niblack (DD 424) rescued 36 men, - one of whom died later.
On 2nd November 1941, the destroyer USS Hilary P. Jones (DD 427), recovered a further 10 crewmen from Reuben James.
'Reuben James' was the third US ship to be attacked by U-boats
4th September 1941, USS Greer, (DD 145) was tracking U-652 175 miles SW of Iceland when she was attacked by the U-boat but suffered no damage and attacked the U-boat with depth-charges, un-successfully. Following this incident President Roosevelt issued the US Navy with the order to 'shoot on sight'.
17th October 1941: USS Kearny, (DD 432) part of the escort for convoy SC 38, becomes the first US casualty of WW2 when she was torpedoed by U-568, SW of Iceland, (57 00N - 27 00W). 11 members of 'Kearny's crew were killed and 22 were injured, some serious enough to warrant extra medical supplies to be air-dropped from a PBY on the 18th.
So opened the whole chapter of events upon which this Forum largely seems to thrive.
Regards to you all
Pete'

[jainso31]

Hereunder the service details of the USS REUBEN JAMES- which may open up this thread; and I know there is a crew list available-would that be of use to you
Pete.Have put it on anyway.

jainso31


http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/crews/ship1189.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Reuben_James_(DD-245) Click "Do you mean"

[Bonzo]

Here you can read this list of those lost on the Reuben James while listening to the Kingston Trio singing about the loss(sound on)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7jBbCQwJ0g

Brian

[jainso31]

Some service history and other details relating to the loss of the USS Kearny.



http://mysite.verizon.net/sepulcher/USSKearny.htm

[Abbeywood.]

While not wishing to be accused of 'nit picking' I would however point out that the 'Kearny' actually saw service right through the hostilities, both in the Atlantic and Pacific theatres.
She was laid up in the Reserve Fleet during 1947 and there remained until stricken from the 'List and broken up during 1972.
Jim, are you thinking of another ship, with a similar name, e.g. 'Leary', DD 158. which, coincidentally, was lost on 24th December 1943, after being torpedoed by both U-275 and U-382 when 585 miles WNW of Cape Finis- terre, (45 00N - 22 00W).

[jainso31]

Not at all- the Kearny link shows DD432 throughout WW2 up till 1946-it is an excellent link, as it has independent links inside the whole.No Pete- no mistake-don't know what gave you that impression??? I take it you have opened the link to Kearny?
Beside all that- are you going to develop this thread into the war service provided by the old four stackers???
Let me know what you intend by pm please if you will

jainso31

[BlackBat242]

Some service history and other details relating to the loss of the USS Kearny.



http://mysite.verizon.net/sepulcher/USSKearny.htm

DD432 was torpedoed, but did not sink... she sailed to Iceland under her own power, received temporary repairs, then sailed under her own power to the US for permanent repairs.


It is your use of "loss" which is causing the confusion... she was not "lost".

[jainso31]

Thank you BB for pointing out that my error is causing confusion; and I do know that Kearny was not sunk when she was torpedoed. Where the confusion is arising, is not with this particular ship; but with the USS LEARY, which I have not heard of; and therefore did not allude to it.

jainso31

[jainso31]

USS Reuben James "deliberately" positioned herself between an ammunition ship and a known position of a wolf pack-is this true or supposition-to do so deliberately is courageous; but surely foolhardy?? Can this aspect be enlarged upon Pete.??

jainso31
http://www.public.navy.mil/surfor/FFG57/Pages/History.aspx

[tim lewin]

Demonstrating the circularity of history; you will all remember the memorial I helped to establish to the 22 Americans who came to the UK and joined the RN in the days before Pearl Harbour brought the USA fully into the war. The night the Kearny was torpedoed was a bad night, we researched this very thoroughly as it was also the night that the Broadwater was torpedoed. The Broadwater did not survive, she went down taking with her Lt. John Parker, the first of the two US volunteers to be KIA and for whom the original, un-named memorial at Greenwich was laid on WSC's orders. The rest of Broadwater's company was picked up by one of the trawlers and HMS Highlander in which my father was serving as a sub-lt, a post he had for only weeks as he contracted diptheria soon after, Highlander left without him and he went on to be posted to ashanti. Pulling the seamen out of the water, choking on FFO made a deep and lasting impression on him.
The U-boat captain who torpedoed Kearny claimed he did not know she was an American ship, seeing her profile he thought, in the darkness, she was a Tribal destroyer based on size and two funnels. I have his name somewhere, and U-boat number.
The U-boat that sunk Broadwater was later sunk in turn by HMS Eridge in the Mediterranean, another coincidence as Chalky was the village policeman in Eridge and created a memorial for her in the church there, even named his house Eridge. The Broadwater was a 4-funnel US gifthorse named after the district of Worthing where Chalky ended up; in her USN life she had been USS Mason, the mayor of Broadwater at the time she was gifted was a Cllr. Mason!
Somewhere there is a picture of Kearny arriving to Greenland (or Iceland) listing badly and with a huge hole in her side, i wonder if its been posted on the forum in the past.
tim

[Don Boyer]

Tim: The photo you were thinking of is on the forum at:
http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1212&highlight=KEARNY. A thread on the "undeclared" war in the Atlantic just prior to the US entry into WWII. The caption mis-identifies the DD next to Kearny as Monassen, it should be Monssen.

I have another photo of Kearny from closer up, but have suddenly discovered my window for posts is lacking the icon for attaching photos...how strange. As soon as I fix that, I'll post the photo...

[tim lewin]

excellent, thanks Don, not seen that one before, the one i was thinking of show her still listing several degrees, a remarkable tribute to US shipbuilders that she did not go down, the hit and the hole are a remarkable parallel to the torpedoing of Somali on QP14 (return leg of PQ18, Sept 1942), i imagine the damage was very similar altho somali's hit was a little further aft being between the engine room and gearing room. As is known she survived, but cdnt steam as was taken in tow by Ashanti before going down in an arctic gale in sight of Iceland after more than 400 miles at the end of a rope.
all very best to you
tim

[Abbeywood.]

Good Morning, Tim.
Just a matter of interest, The photo' to which Don refers, which shows the 'Kearny' undergoing temporary repairs in Kvalfjord, Iceland. states at the bottom that she was careened to enable the repairs to be carried out while still afloat, hence the pronounced list.
Whether this was actually the case I have not determined.
I believe the repair ship 'Kearny' was alongside was USS 'Vulcan' (AR-5) .
Presumably there was no floating-dock stationed in Icelandic waters at that time, - if there ever was.
Regards,
Pete'

[Abbeywood.]

Tim.
Further to my previous posting, (# 13, well it would be, would'nt it).
The photo to which Don Boyer referred is not the one I was thinking of.
Indeed I have just found it again, in Robert J. Cressman's Official Chronology of the US Navy in World War 2 which shows 'Kearny' with her port side main deck just above the water level
Apparently the repairs were carried out in the space between 'Kearny' and 'Vulcan' which would seem to be a bit cramped to work in, even with bolsters between the ships
ATB, Pete.

[Abbeywood.]

USS Reuben James "deliberately" positioned herself between an ammunition ship and a known position of a wolf pack-is this true or supposition-to do so deliberately is courageous; but surely foolhardy?? Can this aspect be enlarged upon Pete.??

jainso31
http://www.public.navy.mil/surfor/FFG57/Pages/History.aspx

Interesting preposition, Jim.
Having read your link' regarding all three 'Reuben James' and especially that referring to the first of that name i suggest that the positioning between the wolf-pack and the un-named ammo' ship was more by bad luck than design.
There were five destroyers in the convoy escort and it does seem that the R.J. was in the wrong place at the wrong time. and apparently none of the merchant ships of the convoy were subjected to a U-boat attack.
Of course I'm open to correction by superior knowledge.
Pete'

[jainso31]

I am inclined to agree that a)she may well have been in a position between an ammunition ship and a Uboat pack but b) her positioning was not deliberate; and the Uboat pack's position would not have been known- to the point of accuracy indicated in the link. More than one link cited this "position issue" but with no tangible proof given.
Hence it was all tragically fortuitous.Thank you for your response Pete.

jainso31

[Don Boyer]

Having performed an amazing miracle while I was ostensibly working for a living, the system reset itself, and I can actually post attachments.

Here is the photo of the USS Kearny I was mentioning earller. Photo taken while she was tied up next to the USS Monssen. Doesn't seem to be much of a list on.

[Abbeywood.]

Excellent photo', Don, and very much self-explanatory.

Any idea as to how far down the damage extended and it does seem to be pretty close to the boiler-room if not actually in that space.
I have read elsewhere that she was able to steam at about 10 knots to reach Hvalfjord, so the boiler-rooms, (fire-rooms, to you), would seem to have been arranged 'fore and aft' as per British arrangement. so that 'Leary' would have been able to steam on her aft boiler. Confirm at your pleasure.

I'll try and develope the photo' that I have, of 'Leary' with a port list alongside 'Vulcan' though this modern technology still confuses me.
The caption describes her as being 'careened' though I thought the practice of such arts involved beaching and rolling the ship on to the opposite side to that required attention. Obviously this is not feasible with a modern warship but is that term still in use in the US Navy, when a ship is given an induced list. ?

ATB, Pete'

[Abbeywood.]

I am inclined to agree that a)she may well have been in a position between an ammunition ship and a Uboat pack but b) her positioning was not deliberate; and the Uboat pack's position would not have been known- to the point of accuracy indicated in the link. More than one link cited this "position issue" but with no tangible proof given.
Hence it was all tragically fortuitous.Thank you for your response Pete.

jainso31

As a point of interest how did they (Reuben James, etc) know which ship was carrying what cargo and so take up the position described
The details of each merchant ship's cargo manifest would only have been revealed after the voyage had been completed, - at the earliest !
Or possibly to the Convoy Commander and his staff to position ships when forming the convoy.
Just a thought

[tim lewin]

fascinating; i guess the only way to lie a ship over in deep water would be to pump everything to one side and then shift as much moveable gear as possible. When Somali suffered a similar fate the side of the ship was blown away from almost deck to keel, only the stringers on the opp side and the upper deck held her together so i am guessing torpedo explosives may have improved by late '42, and poss USN ships were more stoutly constructed?
tim

[jainso31]

The answer to your question Pete- is in the phrase "tragically fortuitous"-The Reuben James may well have been between an ammunition ship and a Uboat BUT they did NOT know that- for sure -no ship's captain, would in those circumstances; knowingly put his ship and crew in deadly danger.
I think the whole story was a piece a dramatic propaganda; hustled up to keep the populace of America keen .;);)

jainso31

[BlackBat242]

Much like the reports of the pilots of crashed aircraft "heroically steering their plane away from (insert houses/school/whatever populated building is nearby)"... even if the pilot was unconscious or the plane totally uncontrollable.

[ludsie]

Intersting story and thanks for sharing the details (and songs) about the Reuben James