Secrets of World War II: The End of the Scharnhorst

[NASAAN101]

hey Guys,
I found a video on scharhorst, and i had a question, Watch from 19:28 to 19:45! what are the so called Cruiser rules??? and were can i find info on it??? here the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmtpzT3zGBY&list=FLKkLj7Ffc7iPV3M_3fRJvsQ&index=37&feature=plpp .. The hole video is funny and Yes the twins were a thron in the Royal navys butt :D
Nikki

[TCC]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prize_rules

It's basically the enemy ship should only do warlike things to combatants, and other war-like targets, whilst looking after the civillians they encouter.

[NASAAN101]

TCC,
Thanks for that, But here's the wild part about it, Germany surface fleet followed that and the subs didn't dose anyone know why???
Nikki

[Richtea]

The Kriegsmarine issued War Order 154 at the end of November or beginning of December 1939.
This was the explicit instruction to the German navy to use
Unrestricted Submarine Warfare.

Last paragraph reads,
Do not rescue any men; do not take them along; and do not take care of any boats of the ship.
Weather conditions and proximity of land are of no consequence.
Concern yourself only with the safety of your own boat and with efforts to achieve additional successes as soon as possible.
We must be hard in this war.
The enemy started the war in order to destroy us,
and thus nothing else matters.

[NASAAN101]

Guys,
Ya, I know! But the surface fleet, played by there own rules!!
Nikki

[red devil]

The Kriegsmarine issued War Order 154 at the end of November or beginning of December 1939.
This was the explicit instruction to the German navy to use
Unrestricted Submarine Warfare.

Last paragraph reads,
Do not rescue any men; do not take them along; and do not take care of any boats of the ship.
Weather conditions and proximity of land are of no consequence.
Concern yourself only with the safety of your own boat and with efforts to achieve additional successes as soon as possible.
We must be hard in this war.
The enemy started the war in order to destroy us,
and thus nothing else matters.

To be fair to most of the U Boat crews, they ignored this. I know in one incident, Otto Kreschmer had just sunk a ship and he called out in the dark to the lifeboats, asking where they were, intending to give them water etc. The crews, fearing machine gunning (british propaganda scared them), said nothing. They heard Kretcher laugh and the U Boat sailed away into the night. That above order came directly from Doenitz. The reason for no rescue was simple, survival. They could not feed themselves beyond a certain point, let alone survivors.

[NASAAN101]

Guys,
The Surface Fleet, played by there own rules!! and a lot of them Rescued survivors!!!
Nikki

[Richtea]

It does not matter if the surface fleet followed War Order 154 or not.
The order was given, I have not commented on the legal validity of the order,
just the most relevant paragraph to this thread.
If people are interested they can do more research on this subject.
Regards
Richard

[NASAAN101]

Richard,
I wasn't trying to get you mad at me, I was just saying!!!
Nikki

[Richtea]

Nikki,
I definitely was not getting mad at you,
I was just trying to point people interested in this thread to the relevant
War order, then they can form their own opinions on this matter.
The fact that only one or two U- boat captains were prosecuted for war crimes
shows what the majority of the Kriegsmarine officers thought of the order.
Regards
Richard

[NASAAN101]

Hey Richard,
Where can i find the order???? And from what i read in my book on Bismarck which was done by one of her highest ranking officers, to live through the sinking, The order given to the surface fleet was not the same as the u-boats!!!
Nikki

[Richtea]

Nikki,
Just use your search engine and type in,
War order 154 or try the Laconia order.
I used google, if you use a different search engine then you should get similar results.
Hope this helps, good luck.
Regards
Richard

[Richtea]

Nikki,
If you want to look deeper into this subject,
try looking up,
Unrestricted Submarine Warfare.
Don't forget this was practiced by both sides during WW2.
Regards
Richard

[NASAAN101]

Richard.
It went for the US subs and u-boats, the Surface fleets, Like i said, played by there own rules!
Nikki

[Abbeywood.]

TCC,
Thanks for that, But here's the wild part about it, Germany surface fleet followed that and the subs didn't dose anyone know why???
Nikki

Up to the middle of 1942 by and large U-boat captains observed the rules that before merchant ships were sunk, the crews were given time to get off their ship. Often U-boat captains also provided the evacuees with some provisions and gave them sailing instructions to the nearest landfall.
However this practice was brought to halt following the sinking of the troop-ship Laconia a Cunard liner taken into Admiralty service..
12th September 1942, the 'trooper' was NE of Ascension Island en route from the Middle East to the UK with 1793 Italian POW's when she was torpedoed and sunk by [B]U-156 When the U-boat captain realised that the survivors were Italian and erstwhile Axis colleagues, he sent out SOS messages in plain language seeking assistance to recover the men in the lifeboats, and took some of the boats in tow towards the West African coast.
This was brought to an abrupt halt when a somewhat 'gung-ho' US aircraft, from Ascension Island and ignorant of the actual situation below him, chose to shoot up the German sub' who cast off the lifeboats in tow and crash-dived. In all some 2200 personnel from Laconia perished as a result.
and Adn Doenitz forbade any further humanitarian aid by his U-boats.

[NASAAN101]

Guys,
Did any of you watch the video and what did you guys thing of it???! and there right scharnie was a thorn in everyone A--!
Nikki

[Glasisch]

on of the best books in last time! The 2nd one English version