What name Russian Cruiser?

[Stan.J]

Can you identify this Ship? A good looking gal isnt she?

[Batstiger]

A bit top heavy wouldn't you say Stan?

[Stan.J]

Well, Batstiger, If you consider it as a Hair do!!!

[kc]

Going back to the first question, this is a Kresta II class cruiser by the looks of it. Do you already know the answer? There are 10 in the class but I have only one numbered photo to rule one of them out. If you don't know the answer already, I can post the names.

As for the look of the ship, I like the Soviet cruisers of this era. Don't know why, they just look good to me. :)

[Stan.J]

No KC ,I dont know the name but I think it is a Kara class????

[astraltrader]

Hi Stan. You are right she is a great looking ship.
The good news is that the ship is a KARA - class guided-missile cruiser [although often catagorised as a large destroyer].
The bad news is that despite lengthy research I have been unable to determine which one! The hull number [291] would usually provide a good starting point but the Russian system of numbering has constantly been revised and changed and does not help in this case.There were 7 ships originally - commissioned between 1971 and mid-1980, of which the only survivor up to a couple of years ago was the Kerch - and she is probably now gone. Well it wasn`t her as her number was 713. It also wasn`t the Azov which became visibly modified! That I am afraid leaves your ship as one of 5 -from - Talinn, Tashkent, Petropaviosk, Ochakov or the Nikolayev. If I do manage to find out I will of course post here. I have many photos and pictures of this class and even found one I have enclosed which I would have thought was taken just minutes before or after yours. Sadly it was entitled " Kara - class Cruiser!"

[The Sailor]

I have to say that Kc seems to be right.
Have a look at this pic of the Kresta class cruiser Yumashev.
It's identical

[kc]

Yep, I looked at the cross sections in Conways, and this is definitely a Kresta II class. There is also a photo in there of Admiral Isakov, which is numbered 297. Others in this class are:

Kronstadt
Admiral Nakhimov
Admiral Makarov
Marshal Voroshilov
Admiral Oktyabr'skiy
Admiral Isachenkov
Marshal Timoshenko
Vasily Chapaev
Admiral Yumashev.

As for numbers, I'm none the wiser I'm afraid.

[kc]

Going to be non-technical here, but if you look at the line of four 'bobbly bits' on each side of the mast, these are unique to the Kresta II class. The Kara class has only the upper two.

And yes, bobbly bits is a technical term.:)

[astraltrader]

Sorry KC and Sailor IMO it is definitely a Kara! My picture is obviously of the same one as Stan`s and comes from a book about the Kara`s and KC`s picture will look identical only because the Kara class came from and is identical in appearance to the the Kresta class!

[The Sailor]

These are Karas

[astraltrader]

KC`s ship is of the Kresta II ship Admiral Umashev. If you click on this link you will see what I mean...
Stan`s ship and mine is a Kara class - but the question is which one...!

http://admiral-umashev.narod.ru/photo.htm

[kc]

Hmm. Which resource to believe. The link certainly shows it as Umashev, but I'm looking at the same picture in Conway's showing it as Isakov.

Did you see the 'bobbly bits'? I think these are the key, if my Conway's silhouettes / cross sections are to be believed. They show two pairs of these things (what are they by the way?!). On both, an 'upper' pair is on the upper section of the mast. The lower pair look important to identification. On the Kara, they are quite a bit further back from the upper pair, and are set vertically in each pair. However, on the Kresta II, they are set directly below the upper pair. Also, taking all four together, their overall shape is bevelled slightly aft - I believe this is what can be seen in the original photo.

I'm just going by one book here and I am of course willing to be shown to be wrong, so long as we can identify the ship, but if I had to identify this photo for the site, I would definitely put it with the Kresta II class.

I expect by the time I post all this someone has already posted the answer and I will have wasted my time. :p

[The Sailor]

I don't think it is possible to be positive here anyway. The two classes are so similar and the identification problem is compounded by the fitting of different radars and other appendages. All the photos of the classes merge.

[astraltrader]

None of this is helped by the Russians not sticking with a coherant hull numbering system! It is also strange that Stan and I have pictures of the same ship and the one I have is clearly marked " a frontal image of a Soviet Kara Class" and this is in a whole section on Kara Class ships. I wonder where Stan got his picture from?

[hucks216]

Hi guys,
I can clear up the confusion with regards to the class of the first ship - it is a Kresta II although as the Russians change their pennant numbers around every few years tying it down to one particular name can be difficult.
Due to my specialisation in the RN & joining up when the cold war was just coming to an end ('88), Russian ships and recognising them is a strong point of mine. The Kara is basically an improved & enlarged version of a Kresta II, and due to the Kara having gas turbine propulasion instead of the steam of the Kresta's the section aft of the bridge on a Kara was lengthened. That is one recognition point. A second is that on a Kara they have a small mast on top of the bridge roof (behind the Headlights (NATO name) radar) holding a radar system, whereas the Kresta's don't have this. And thirdly, on the Kresta II there is a radar located on the funnel area behind the main mast which the Kara doesn't have. Apart from size the differences between the two classes are few but they are there. I've added some pictures I have found to help.
The 'bobbly bits' on the masts as someone mentioned are radar detectors & jammers.
I hope that I have been able to help.

Photo 1) Side-on view of Kara Class - notice extra mast on bridge.
Photo 2) Side-on view of Kresta II - notice lack of extra mast & radar on funnel area aft of main mast.
Photo 3) Lengthened area aft of bridge superstructure on Kara - notice large calibre guns.
Photo 4 & 5) Same area of a Kresta II - notice the 30mm ADG (Air Defence Guns - a gatling gun system) instead of the larger calibre guns and also the radar sitting on the funnel area as well as lack of a smaller mast on the bridge.

[kc]

Thanks for clearing that up hucks. I was sure it was a Kresta II, despite relying on the number of 'bobbly bits' each ship had to back up my case. Nice to have an expert explain it.

[astraltrader]

Thanks for that explanation Hucks - it does explain the difference between the Kara and the Kresta very well . Also after a PM exchange with Stan we have cleared up why we both had the photo described, mistakenly as it now seems, as a Kara. They were both from books by the same author!

[tjstoneman]

Hate to contradict a naval expert, but I think Photo 2 in the 13 March posting by hucks216 is of a Kresta I, not a Kresta II. The sensor and weapon fit of the two Kresta classes were very different - as shown by the models (Photos 4 & 5) in his posting which are Kresta IIs.

[hucks216]

You are quite right, I stand corrected on photo 2.

[GaryM]

The Ship in Question is a Kresta 11 Class Name Admiral Markarov. Attached is a stern view photograph showing both the hull number and the name.
Hope this helps Cheers GaryM

[astraltrader]

Thanks for that definitive identification Gary M. Also welcome to the forum...