Royal Navy Promotion From Ranks

[viv1949]

Hi chaps and chapesses..

Viv has a serious question to ask of all you knowledgable people out there.

Have been "trawling" thru the Navy lists today at the Portsmouth Library.
My Grandfather Charles Stephen Grigson was made up to ARTICIFER Engineer in 1913 and in Dec 1921 he was made up to Warrant Engineer and in Jan 1923 to Commisioned Engineer. His final commision was to Lt (E) in Nov 1929.
Right my questions are: (1) Would this be the natural progression thru the ranks around this time (2) Where would he have been before those dates.i.e 1912 and before (3) Is it a general rule when an Officer retires from the RN he is automatically given the next rank up.

I also have a list of ships in which he served but I will look up their history myself on the appropriate websites.

Also have obtained birth certificates of my mother and aunt and my other Grandfather, Dalson Jory Stanton is listed in 1910 as an electrican on board HMS Jupiter and by 1914 he was an Electrical ARTICIFER. Again basically the same questions as before.

Sorry this is a bit of along post but I am confident you can help.

Thanks

Viv
:)

[Stan.J]

Hallo Viv, An interesting question. Engine Room Articifers (ERAs)have been going now for just over 100 years. It was one of Jackie Fishers good ideas.
They were boys to start and worked their way through the ranks to Chief ERA
Often an ERA of exceptional abilty was given the opportunity to progress further in the Navy, The Rank of Warrant Officer in those days were the same as a Gunner with one thin ring on the sleeve. This nowadays has been changed/ A warrant rank is in the Senior Chiefs and Petty Officers mess.
The opportunity to progress further and to gain a Commisioned rank such as Lieutenant was gained only through usually a period of training at a place such as Dartmouth. In the days of which you were talking it was very rare to get that far. However it is more probable today. In fact my Brother-in-Law did that very same and retired as a Lieutenant(E)
So your Grandfather must have been an exceptional man.
If you go to the "Fisguard Association you may learn more there.
Cheers,Stan.

[viv1949]

Sorry Stan... :(
I didn't reply did I ..... guess I will have to be thrown into the brig....
I never knew my Grigson Grandfather so it's nice to think that his progress might have been exceptional.
I have been down to the library again this morning, they have a"special place" for me there now !!
Still cannot find anything pre 1913 so I guess it is NRO for me in my search.
Thanks

Viv

[Odin]

Just seen this thread and tried to find your grandfather in the London Gazettes. The only entry I could find was the London Gazette 12 Nov 1929 which showed his promotion from Commissioned Engineer to Lieut (E) seniority 1 Nov 1929. I had hoped to find more.

As I understand it the rank of Artificer Engineer was a Warrant Rank (as someone else said wore one thin gold ring on his uniform). There was also a rank above that called Chief Artificer Engineer which wore a thick gold rink. These ranks were used in WWI. In the 1916 Navy List there were 590 Art Eng and 239 Ch Art Eng.

By 1923 (not exactly sure of the date) these ranks became Warrant Engineer (for Art Eng) and Commissioned Engineer (for Ch Art Eng). In the 1923 Navy Lists there were 334 and 92 respectively in the RN.

So his actual promotions are:
Artificer Engineer 1913 (renamed Warrant Engineer Dec 1921)
Commissioned Engineer 1923 (in place of the old style Chief Artificer Engineer)
Lieut (E) 1929

I suspect that with the reduction in the size of the Navy post war, promotion would have been quite difficult but he did well to make Lieut (E).

I'm not sure this totally answers your question but does clarify the war and post war ranks. By the way I didn't count up all the entries in the Navy List, someone had done that as part of another exercise. I have the totals for most Warrant Officers for 1916 and 1923.

The London Gazette Page I found is below:

[nogrub]

I knew two thin ringers in the 1950s.

One was on HMS Cumberland and I believe he looked after Radar, he was always addressed as Mister, and was a member of the Gunroom.

The second was onboard HMS Defiance, his name was Mister Linden, and when he was not within earshot Daddy Linden.

[johnny07]

When I was in the navy a chap, whose name escapes me, went from ERA to ERA. He started off as an engine room artificer and went on to be an engineering rear admiral. I think he was the only era to do this. He may have gone further, I dont know.

[emason]

When I was in the navy a chap, whose name escapes me, went from ERA to ERA. He started off as an engine room artificer and went on to be an engineering rear admiral. I think he was the only era to do this. He may have gone further, I dont know.

Could it be this ERA:

http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8195