RN Shore Training Establisment: HMS Vincent [Archive]

funnell63

13-04-2008, 16:42

I'm glad I found a reference to at least one ship that one of my ancestors was connected with.

John Henry Saunders bn 1854 in Dover was a boy 2nd class at the time of the 1871 census. I can find no trace of him after this, can anyone tell me how long boys spent training in HMS St Vincent. His brother Thomas G Saunders was serving on HMS SeaLark. I have found numorous references to modern day HMS Sealark, but nothing about the Victorian version. If anyone can shed any light I'd be very interested to hear from them.

Cheers

Paula

romft1945

11-05-2008, 07:40

Paula when I was there in 1960 it was for a period of 12months, reputed to be the hardest time of your life, but all in all it was golly good fun,
ROM:p

herakles

11-05-2008, 07:52

And I bet you were a good boy Rom whilst you were there! :D

romft1945

11-05-2008, 08:01

Thats a bit of a daft question
ROM:D

Alan B

11-05-2008, 13:01

St Vincent had the best firework displays in the area aswell.

mikeg

14-05-2008, 10:40

The attached shows St Vincent Div, Xmas term, 1926.

Mike

Commodore Armiger

14-05-2008, 11:59

That'll be HMS St Vincent then.

mikeg

14-05-2008, 12:42

Sorry about the typo - HMS St Vincent.

That's the trouble with us non Naval types

Mike

Harley

14-05-2008, 12:51

I'm intrigued, what ship is that?

Harley

astraltrader

14-05-2008, 13:06

Simon HMS St Vincent was both a WW1 Battleship as well as the name of a training establishment for young sailors at Gosport...

Harley

14-05-2008, 13:14

That I am aware of. However, H.M.S. St. Vincent was sold for scrap on 1 December 1921 to Stanlee of Dover and broken up there in 1922 (a man working on her breaking up named David Wilson from Birkenhead was crushed to death by a 10 ton piece of armour plate which fell on him on 18 July that year).

Hence my wondering which ship they are on.

Harley

Harley

14-05-2008, 13:34

H.M.S. "St. Vincent", the Portsmouth counterpart to H.M.S. "Ganges", didn't actually open until 1927 (the announcement of its inception being made on 6 December, 1926. I can only conclude that "St. Vincent Division" was the name of a division at "Ganges" or some other boys training establishment.

That ships got a fairly large conning tower so it must have been a cruiser of some sort. Interesting...

Harley

Commodore Armiger

14-05-2008, 13:54

A couple of links, one about the battle (which gave Earl St Vincent his title and Nelson a victory largely overlooked), the other about the training establishment.

http://www.stvincent.ac.uk/Heritage/1797/index2.html

http://www.hmsstvincentassoc.org/svaframe.html

The cadets of "St Vincent Division" may have been aboard one of the training cruisers of the period, such as HMS Caroline.

mikeg

14-05-2008, 15:32

I have gone back to my original photo and compared the information with that held on my father's service record.

Not being ex-Navy and very much a novice in Naval matters I hadn't given it much thought - had assumed St Vincent Division was the same as HMS St Vincent.

I believe that the attached solves the mystery.

My father's records show that from March 1926 to July 1927 he was on HMS Impregnable. How could I think that a 'Guzz' seaman would be at a 'Pompey' base? :)

Teach me to be more careful in future

Mike

Harley

14-05-2008, 15:40

Cheers for clearing that up, Mike. What a charming certificate!! They certainly knew how to present things back then. I have far too many certificates printed out on A4 paper from Microsoft Publisher 97, which makes me appreciate such things.

Harley

Commodore Armiger

14-05-2008, 16:46

I think the certificate may also have cleared up which vessel the photo was taken on. Note that next to the signature it says "HMS Colossus". From September 1921 until August 1928 she was a cadet training ship.

HMS Impregnable II (ex cruiser HMS Powerful built 1895) was also a training vessel at the time, but such photos as I have been able to access suggest that she had nothing like the conning tower shown in the group picture.

sailor148

28-06-2008, 21:22

Our class at St Vincent 1968, thats me right of PO Kerr seated on the class photo & left standing on the other!

Bill

rumrat

28-06-2008, 21:30

Have turned your picture around Sailor it was back to front.
Regards
Dave

ChalkyWhite

16-09-2008, 18:58

Here's a few to sing the praises of HMS St Vincent. I'm sure most of the thousands of Boys who passed through would, perhaps in some cases reluctantly, say that the place was the making of them. That certainly applies to me.There were also many hundreds of Fleet Air Arm Pilots and Observers in Classes passing through.
Over the years it also seems to me that HMS Ganges the sister Training Establishment has got all the better Press and that Association certainly seems larger than our St Vincent one.
The aerial photo shows the Establishment with Forton Creek at the top which led out to Portsmouth harbour. Although Seamanship and boat drills were carried out backing onto this creek actual Cutter and Whaler sailing and pulling took place a 10 minute March away to Clarence Yard.
The Main gate photo shows all that is left of the roadside facade which thank goodness was Listed and preserved. All the Blocks seen here, the Wardroom over to the right, and the Parade Ground have gone and a 1960's monstrosity College is now on the site.There were a number of huge Air raid Shelters dug into the Parade Ground which must have taken some filling. Perhaps they used the rubble from the demolished Blocks.
The figure head of Old Jervie has also gone.
The Benbow New Entry Class has me second in top right.
I'll post some more photos later.

Chalky White.

ChalkyWhite

16-09-2008, 21:29

Here are a few more photos of HMS St Vincent. Some are of the Queens Birthday Parade and in one, in the far corner, you can just about make out the Royal Marines firing a salute by the smoke. I particularly like the marching Division for the QBP. That sort of drill would be good for a few of the layabouts society is now blessed with.
The Mast is shown bedecked with flags which probably said,'Give up hope all ye who enter here' or something like that!! I personally used to love climbing that mast and was up it as often as possible. I do believe it was a few feet taller than that at Ganges!
The Class being inspected is Anson 46 and yours truly is on the far right. I can name most of these boys if anyone is interested as also the photo on the previous thread.
My RN joining Form I thought might be interesting. 12 years signed away on the dotted line! Oh mother what would the PC lot think of that today?
Other photos are of the Anson Division Winners of the Field Gun Cups, Anson 46 Racing Cutter Crew (that was a laugh, we came in about 7th!!).

Enjoy.

Chalky White

jbryce1437

16-09-2008, 21:49

Interesting pics Chalky. Any chance of enlarging them to around 1200 pixels wide, the bigger the better, can't make out the detail or faces?

ChalkyWhite

17-09-2008, 08:49

I was a bit surprised when checking after posting that the photos had not enlarged properly. So I have adjusted them and so hopefully they will be OK this time. Thanks for your comment.

ChalkyWhite

17-09-2008, 08:51

It appears that even with adjusting the photographs to 1200 pixels wide they are still not enlarging properly. Any suggestions anyone please?

ChalkyWhite

17-09-2008, 10:16

Third time lucky one hopes.
First 3: The Queens Birthday Parade 11th June 1953.
4 & 5: Anson 46 Class Sunday Divisions 26th Juky 1953.
6 & 7: Anson 46 Class racing Cutter Crew and Clarence Yard Cutter Pens.
8: Dress Ship with Coronation Flags 2nd June 1953.
9: The Mast and Blocks which were all named after famous battles.
10: Anson Division A & B Field Gun Crews Winners of both Cups.

As I mentioned on a previous thread I can name quite a few of the boys in these photos.
Another 6 or so to come.

ChalkyWhite

17-09-2008, 10:30

Another 6 photographs.
1 2: Anson Division B Crew Field Gun Competition. Winners of the fastest Time
Cup.
3: Anson Division Field Gun Crews Winners of all Cups. I wonder where the Cup
and Field Gun Trophy are now? Divisional Officer Lt Cdr Stafford and on his
left CPO Ball. Yours truly just above the DO's head to the right with my
great mate at the time Paddy Stephens. I wonder where he is now.
4: Anson Division. Winners of the Sports Cup 11th July 1953.
5: Anson 46 Class being inspected at Sunday Divisions 26th July 1953. Yours
truly far right.
6: Boy White. HMS St Vincent 1953. And very proud of his uniform.

jbryce1437

17-09-2008, 13:15

Many thanks for the bigger pics Chalky, much better detail:D

Melv.

17-09-2008, 15:14

Good photo's Chalky.......

Does make you wonder what young lads today are missing really. Young Lads / Men need to use that pent-up energy in the manner that you and thousands of other youngsters use to. As a working class Lad growing up in post war Portsmouth you had about 3 choices after leaving school. Forces / Police/ Bad Boy...take your pick. :D
Still, that could be about to change with the announcement that the Armed Forces are so seriously undermanned that they are going to increase service numbers dramatically ie the RAF from 43,000 to 55,000 the Army by another 15,000 and the Navy by 5000 and they might let the Navy have some new ships as well!
The ouflow of personnel is so serious now they have actually decided to do something about it.
Horses and stable doors springs instantly to mind! :D

ChalkyWhite

17-09-2008, 16:21

Thanks for that Mel I agree with what you say. The most important thing taught at both HMS St Vincent and HMS Ganges to all those thousands of boys was DISCIPLINE. That is the most important thing lacking in the overwhelming majority of todays youth who respect nothing be it person, authority, property or whatever.

I had to grin at your quotes of increases in service numbers. With this lot in charge I doubt if they could come anywhere near those figures whatever scheme they came up with. Look at the lives which would have been saved during the Falklands campaign if Healey and his lot had not done away with the Fleet carriers in the 70's.The scrapping of my old ship Victorious was a disgrace and they could certainly have got a few more years out of Eagle to name but two. Ark Royal was scrapped but deployed down in the South Atlantic with a few Phantoms would have made the world of difference plus a number of AEW Gannets for early warning.
I reckon that wages for the armed forces would have to be doubled before any significant voluntary increase in numbers would be seen and I personally doubt even that would do the trick.
It would not even surprise me if the two new carriers currently ordered were not cancelled. Have you seen the You Tube skit on that subject? Hilarious.

The information on this web site is mind boggling isn't it.

Regards,

Chalky White

Batstiger

17-09-2008, 16:28

Great work Chalky I had every faith in you.
Don't forget the candidates acknowledgment form!

Bob.

ChalkyWhite

17-09-2008, 18:15

Thanks for that reminder Bob I had clean forgotten about this Candidate's Acknowledgment Form. What a nice way to put it wasn't it, signing oneself away for 12 years!! Did they whisper the fact that it was for 12 years? The Chief at the Recruiting Office was kindly they didn't start shouting until one arrived at destination did they. Happy days though in retrospect and one certainly never ever again get the same comradeship as in the Navy, certainly not in the police service in which I spent 30 long years. Personally, it's probably nostalgia, but I'd go back to sea tomorrow if I could. Oh Well.....

Chalky

Melv.

18-09-2008, 15:50

Could start a whole new thread on how we were all press ganged at a tender age....lol

My situation was similar to yours Chalky except I wasn't too smart enough to realise what was going on that time of attestation (RAF equvalent to your docs.)
I was only 16 and a bit when I joined up and I had absolutely no one to advise me on what to do really for the best.
When the Attestation Officer asked us Lads "What do you want to do 9 years or 12" I thought 9 years sounds good I'll only be 25'ish when I leave. The small detail of service only counts from the age of 18 was conveniently left out.
You had about 3 days to make up your mind before signing your life away and on the 3rd day I still wasn't too sure and I asked the Officer for some advice to which he replied " Well, Son, there is no terminal gratuity payable for 9 years service but if you sign for 12 years you get a £355 pay-out. That was the clincher for me. 12 years it was then and a King's ransom payable at the end of it.
Needless to say I had never heard of inflation! :D
.....and I never did get it either because I signed on for the "Royal Bundle" 22 years pensionable service.

ChalkyWhite

18-09-2008, 16:39

Thanks for that Mel. Isn't it absolutely amazing what a word, or a phrase, heard or read will unlock memories locked away for years.
I don't recall having a number of days to think it over before I signed the dotted line but probably there was as even in those distant days there must have been some regulation or law dealing with how authority such as the RN or RAF dealt with mere 15 year olds.
The sums of money you mention must have seemed like a small fortune. When I got to HMS St Vincent at Gosport we, as Boy Seamen, were paid the princely sum of 5 shillings and one had to line up in front of the officer dealing out the dosh, take ones cap off smartly, hold it out in front of you, when two half crowns were placed on the cap. Take the coins, on caps, salute, and leave. What a perfomance!
I also agree with the non mention of 'time served' not commencing until one reached 18 years of age. In my case I joined when I was 15 and those three years until 18 were served for love as they say. I then served for 7 years and was released to join the police service the 5 years Naval Reserve time being cancelled.
That, and armed forces service in general, in those distant times, caused lots of controversy as that time served did not count towards a pension if one changed to another occupation like the police service. Yet if a teacher or other civil servant joined the police that time did count they having paid a small sum into a pension scheme which was transferred. This thorny problem has reared it's head time and time again over the years but successive governments have treated the armed services of those days in the disgraceful mannner which they continue to follow in this respect in other matters, a flat refusal. I won't get into the medals debate and goverment refusal to recognise service such as RAF Bomber Command. At least someone, somewhere, had the energy to pursue the awarding of a Veterans lapel Badge but I wonder what obstacles were placed in the way of that submission until the badge was granted.

Chalky White

BUCK

20-02-2009, 15:52

I was a nozzer at vincent 1963 and joined 10th June with 59 enrty.
Have a good photo of all of us with names.
Further questions ask for buck on this site class 593

BUCK

12-03-2009, 18:39

From Buck
I was a Vincent Boy so much of a nozzer to most of you it seems
Joined 1963 as 59 entry (would like to hear from others).
Great reading and i agree with it all good times.
Left Vincent to Collingwood and was lucky to be in 160c building
on the edge. All great time I have a photo of some of our entry for anyone
on please ask

Big Al

31-10-2009, 00:12

A nostalic look at HMS St Vincent, made me shudder to see the parade ground again after all these years.
http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=11817

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=7506

Ednamay

31-10-2009, 12:30

Big Al -
Thanks for the leads, I looked at the St. Vincent presentation and it took me back to 1946, when my cousin was there, but I must admit I had not seen them beat the retreat.
Before the war, we used to walk out to Eastney to see the marines beat the retreat; they had a very tall drum major and it was an education to see all his leads.
Edna

Dreadnought

06-02-2010, 17:23

Nice postcard of the gate into St. Vincent. Not sure of date.

Postcard from my personal collection.

iain mchenry

06-02-2010, 17:39

My Grandfather did his training at HMS St Vincent in 1929. Where would that have been?

Regards

Iain

steve roberts

06-02-2010, 17:49

Hi Iain.HMS St Vincent was an RN Training establishment in Gosport Hampshire.It is now a Further Education College.Steve.:)

iain mchenry

07-02-2010, 09:15

Thanks Steve,

Would you know if there is still much to see there?

Iain

steve roberts

07-02-2010, 10:39

Hi Iain. Yes. Though most of the old Barrack blocks are gone for new college buildings,the old Gym. Still exists,though somewhat derelict.The Main gate and Captains House,which are listed buildings still remain much as they would have looked back in the 1940's. Regards Steve.:) PS if you use Google Earth and zoom in on Gosport,you can see the establishment!

Albert Hall

22-03-2010, 17:41

It might have had the best fireworks, but that early morning dhobying was a killer.

Paddy

22-03-2010, 18:03

Thats a bit of a daft question
ROM:D

Would not be a daft question if you were a bad boy.
You might still have the cane marks on your stern.

Mind you,,, it depends how bad.
Paddy.

Paddy

22-03-2010, 18:12

It might have had the best fireworks, but that early morning dhobying was a killer.

Not as bad as backward swimmers, do I recall a 6AM start, before breakfast?.
I could swim ok but not very good in a boiler suit.
I made the mistake of doing up the top button, when I got in the water it shrunk, after a length I was choking and because it was tight I could not undo the button.
I had to hold the edge while I pulled the button off and I got another six days for touching the side + a roloking for pulling off the button.

Paddy

Albert Hall

26-03-2010, 14:47

Well I was no worse than other 15 year olds, but backward swimmers was a proper b*****d too. So was a weeks No 14's.

RonHowell

20-05-2010, 22:54

steve roberts

21-05-2010, 09:55

Hi Ron.I remember the mast well when St. Vincent was still a going concern.But I am sorry to say that now the site is St.Vincent college,the mast has long gone.Only the main gate,the Skippers house and the old Drill Shed(Being listed) still remain.
I well remember the old swimming test.Two lengths of the pool and then keep your self afloat for three minutes in the deep end,with all the PTI's stood round the edges with long poles to push off anyone who tried to hang on to the sides.Do you also remember how they taught you to make a life jacket out of a pair of #8's trousers? tie knots in the ankles of them,swing them over your head to trap air.Hay Presto,an improvised life supporter.
Many Regards Steve.

Doc

21-05-2010, 10:33

Hello all,

I will add to Steve's post with the fact that as an old St Vincent-er (the Sixth Form College not the HMS) that there are a few other small buildings surviving, which are included within the current sports complex. I can't say what they were originally but they are still there. Also the foot print of one of the the ablutions block is still present (but used as a car park)

The open air swimming pool is now filled in but is still viewable under the grass at the end of the back field leading to Forton Creek. Everytime there was heavy rain it would fill and become a quagmire.

I have some great photographs of the old St Vincent site. I have attached links to a few of them:

http://www.iwmcollections.org.uk/dbtw-wpd/exec/dbtwpub.dll?AC=NEXT_RECORD&XC=/dbtw-wpd/exec/dbtwpub.dll&BU=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iwmcollections.org.uk%2FqryIma ges.php&TN=Uncat&SN=AUTO12473&SE=1084&RN=0&MR=25&TR=0&TX=1000&ES=0&CS=1&XP=&RF=salResultsThumb&EF=&DF=salDetails&RL=0&EL=0&DL=0&NP=1&ID=&MF=WPENGMSG.INI&MQ=&TI=0&DT=&ST=0&IR=0&NR=0&NB=0&SV=0&BG=0&FG=0&QS=

http://www.iwmcollections.org.uk/dbtw-wpd/exec/dbtwpub.dll?AC=NEXT_RECORD&XC=/dbtw-wpd/exec/dbtwpub.dll&BU=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iwmcollections.org.uk%2FqryIma ges.php&TN=Uncat&SN=AUTO12473&SE=1084&RN=3&MR=25&TR=0&TX=1000&ES=0&CS=1&XP=&RF=salResultsThumb&EF=&DF=salDetails&RL=0&EL=0&DL=0&NP=1&ID=&MF=WPENGMSG.INI&MQ=&TI=0&DT=&ST=0&IR=0&NR=0&NB=0&SV=0&BG=0&FG=0&QS=

http://www.iwmcollections.org.uk/dbtw-wpd/exec/dbtwpub.dll?AC=NEXT_RECORD&XC=/dbtw-wpd/exec/dbtwpub.dll&BU=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iwmcollections.org.uk%2FqryIma ges.php&TN=Uncat&SN=AUTO12473&SE=1084&RN=1&MR=25&TR=0&TX=1000&ES=0&CS=1&XP=&RF=salResultsThumb&EF=&DF=salDetails&RL=0&EL=0&DL=0&NP=1&ID=&MF=WPENGMSG.INI&MQ=&TI=0&DT=&ST=0&IR=0&NR=0&NB=0&SV=0&BG=0&FG=0&QS=

http://www.iwmcollections.org.uk/dbtw-wpd/exec/dbtwpub.dll?AC=NEXT_RECORD&XC=/dbtw-wpd/exec/dbtwpub.dll&BU=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iwmcollections.org.uk%2FqryIma ges.php&TN=Uncat&SN=AUTO12473&SE=1084&RN=26&MR=25&TR=0&TX=1000&ES=0&CS=1&XP=&RF=salResultsThumb&EF=&DF=salDetails&RL=0&EL=0&DL=0&NP=1&ID=&MF=WPENGMSG.INI&MQ=&TI=0&DT=&ST=0&IR=0&NR=0&NB=1&SV=0&BG=0&FG=0&QS=

Enjoy,

Doc / Ian

RonHowell

21-05-2010, 16:37

Thanks for the memories Doc/Ian & Steve, I certainly do remember the No 8's as a lifejacket, I had forgotten all about that particular exercise. And the picture of the mast, I remember facing the building block as we accended, the go over the top, I wonder what the 'elf & safety would think about the dreaded mast now.

Ron

Golden Rivet

11-09-2010, 22:04

Yes I recall the PTI requesting volunteers to jump in, "don't worry lads just grab hold of this boom which I'll hold in front of you". Until he pulled it away just as we jumped in. You soon learnt to swim.

iantownsend

30-11-2010, 21:14

A late reply to these pics of St Vincent.
Those lads look well fed and fit. Well, my dad was posted there from '53 to '55 as PO (Cook) Bill Townsend, so I assume he was responsible for the three meals a day they needed to keep so active.
I have this photo of the "ships crew" from 1954 - the second snap is a blow-up showing dad and the only other names he recorded ("Raggy" Page, Smithy and Chuck Hagan). Anyone remember any of the others? Quite a mix of smiles and frowns!
Ian

Titchroberts

29-09-2011, 18:47

I was at St Vincent 1961 45 Entry November and was a naughty boy . I believe I received thw largest number of days of jogging with a 303 for a generation. Loved the place although I was only 15yrs and 1 month when I joined from Glasgow. went on to do three Field Gun Crews and a Brickwoods winning three medals remember the swimming pool well and also Ballroom dancing on a Tuesday if I recall when the ladies "came" on board. Wonderful days although there where the usual bullies. Sea training on H.M.S Venus with HAMMOCKS yes and binnoculars for watchkeeping on the bridge. We went to Keil for Keil week which was a similar thing as Cowes week. Bumped into the Brittania in Pompey harbour once and stayed at Aggies a few weekends. Titch Roberts. :D

Dreadnought

29-09-2011, 19:45

Hi Titch, a very warm welcome to World Naval Ships Forums. Welcome aboard. We have a thread HERE (http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7933&highlight=field+gun) about the Field Gun Run which you may find of interest, and we would welcome any additional information or stories of your experiences.

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Teuchter

30-09-2011, 07:02

As a new entry at HMS Collingwood in 1955 we all had to climb the mast at HMS St Vincent as well as jump into the swimming pool with overalls on. Can anyone remember this, we hear of the Ganges mast but never St. Vincent.
I well remember the PO doing all the shouting said that no one had ever fallen off the mast because they were so frightened they could never break their grip on the ropes.
Memories please.

Ron

Hi Ron - as a new entry at Collingrad in 1959 we had to do the same - I don't think the mast was compulsory but I believe we all did it - then one length of the pool in overalls - take them off in the water and swim another length - swimming test duly passed!!:D

In hindsight happy days!!:)