View Full Version : Time Spent On Ships
After seeing "Sailors Record Sheets" here and elsewhere. It has occurred to me that they do not spend much time on ships/Shore establishments. Whereas in my time it was almost always 2 - 2 1/2 yrs commissions on ships and anything (Depending on Branch) ashore. Does anyone know the reason that they had so many postings and so little time at these postings. Was it a standard practice?
romft1945
14-02-2008, 14:06
Hi if you are referring to modern day service it had a lot to do with spouse who in the sixties complained about there husbands being away for so long,my first was 24 mtns 1961 then all after that were 18mtns or less,sorry dont know much more about it other than that,
Rom:o
I wasn't necessarily talking about being away (Foreign). I meant drafted to a ship. (whether it was day running out of Portland (Most weekends off)) or a G.S.C. Commission, which normally was split into three (Home, Foreign, Home). In a vast amount of records that people have posted on the internet, show that he was drafted to a ship and was only on it for 2,3,4, months and then drafted off. I know that a lot of drafts are on temporary basis, But it seems too many to be the case.
romft1945
15-02-2008, 00:07
I have three records infront of me Dads,Grandads, Greatgrandads and they are all the same they seemed to change over quite often why heavens only knows,my record is staright forward A to B no questions asked 24mtns etc or as I used to say to Mum see you when I see you,promise to write,
ROM
Or was it "Home again,when are you going back"?
I know things have changed nowadays but for the best I hope....When I served in the Persian Gulf that was considered the shortest Foreign service Commission at 18 months(I had 21 months because of the 1951 Mossedeq oil takeover) The usual Foreign Commission was up to two and a half years. For instance The Far east, based at "Tamar" Hong Kong. Now when a ship goes for a six month trip the public seem its a long time and cheer them back.
romft1945
15-02-2008, 11:16
The shortest trip I had was 12mtns Dartmouth Squadron all the rest were a lot longer never stayed in this country long,my uncle was a PO Writer stationed at drafty HQ and he used to let me know as and when a good draft came up, best one was 24 months SA and SA (South Africa and South America) I was on the Whitby then,
Rom
Late sixties/early seventies I served on a couple of ships and after 12 months I was asked if I wished to stay or return to the UK....:)
hucks216
21-06-2008, 08:58
The current draft to a ship in the RN is now 4 years (depending on branch - logistic branch AB's can get just 18 month drafts) and due to the lack of shore based billets it isn't unusual for the that 4 year draft to be extended by another few years.
My very last draft ,before my time was up was H.M.S ROOKE.
I was offered 12months unocuppied ,or 24 months married occupied
Before then i had just done short of 12 months at R.N.H STONEHOUSE being ships company [working in there lab doing office work]...what a cushy number.
So i took up the offer and signed on another 12 months to do a full 24 months....i think they thought i might sign on longer,.
But it was the VERY BEST move i ever did........in that time i got just about a full year being on the ARLINGHAM ,........i still remember my DO asking me if i would care to do few more years ,and that i would be a killick in that time .
I held my breath ,to what i would have said,as i had fulfilled what i had set out to do in my career.
I had saved up enough cash to set my self up in business,and being my own boss,[27 years later] i now just work part time.
And my wife collects her pension [ tax man put your hands back in your pocket].......
cylla
alanbenn
30-06-2008, 20:21
For me in the 70's drafts all depended on your rating. I was Radio electrical branch and each time I took exams for my next rate i.e from REM2 to REM1 and then to LREM it had to be followed by a course at Hms Collingwood, I think 'stokers' in my day were the same. So in many cases your draft would be cut short to get you onto the next available course. You then got drafted as your new rate and the process started again. If you didn't want to leave your current posting until the end of your draft, you just didn't take the exams, but obviously with higher rating came better pay.
Alan
Alan's reply covers it for the engine room branch as well. In the 40s and 50s most commissions were up to two and a half years foreign for ships east of Suez. Home and the Med were often eighteen months sometimes split as 9 months Home and 9 months foreign.
Promotion to Leading Stoker meant transfer to barracks to attend the Leading Stokers' Course followed by a new ship. Later, as a Mechanician, I had three ship-to-ship drafts before returning to barracks for a course. This occurred when I went from Mech 3 to Mech 2 and then to Mech 1.
Part of the requirements for Mechs and Tiffies depended on their trade. On small ships with a Chief and four Tiffie/Mech engine room watchkeepers, the trades were normally split, 1 Boilermaker, 1 Coppersmith and 2 Fitters and Turners to cover the maintenance work required. Occasionally this could result in a draft to maintain the balance on a particular ship.
Ken
Chris Howat
02-07-2008, 10:13
In Ark Royal in her 5th Commission, 64 to 66, there was a Chief Electrician who had served onboard for 10 years! He was known as "Noah" and was a fund of knowledge about the spare electrical gear. He had joined as a leading hand and volunteered to stay onboard as he believed, probably quite rightly, that he would eventually be at sea or away from Devonport less time that way.
doug.birch
02-07-2008, 13:02
I dont know if was different in ww2, but I did 4 years with HMS.Fencer from 1942-1946, soon after she was handed back to the USA.I just missed out on a good trip,being a non Pusser stored ship there were plenty of surplus stores. Doug.Birch
Chris Howat
04-07-2008, 20:27
We all know that we serve IN a ship, not ON!!!
I do not live on a house.
You cannot be on a submarine unless you want to swim home
Horrified Chris
jbryce1437
04-07-2008, 20:57
I served on the Ark for the same commission as Chris. I was a Greenie and the Chief Elec was named Taff Davies, he was a POEL when I joined and he was rated up during the commission. He was in charge of Elec stores and spare gear. He had served on the Ark from the first commission and did his courses when the ship was in refit.
I left the Ark after de-storing her for the 3 year long refit which started in 1967 and he was still onboard then. I recently came across a photo of the
Electrical branch on the Eagle and he was a Chief Elec on the Eagle, presumably while the Ark was in long refit. I don't know if he ended up on the Ark again after her long refit:confused:
Chris Howat
05-07-2008, 20:31
That's the chap, Chief Davies! A source of useful information. I had to maintain the flight deck and hangar electrical supplies as well as many many other things
In the 4th. Ark Royal there was a Ch. Stoker McInerney, who joined her in 1955 when she was first commissioned and was still serving in her in 1963 when I left the Ark. I am now scraping the old memory, in the 50's there was an Able Seaman in Solebay, I think, he was the longest serving rating, Earl mountbatten said he was the longer server by 1 day. Now someone must know but I think the AB was called George ........ Please someone with a longer memory than me come to the rescue.:eek::confused::confused:
SCRG1970
09-11-2008, 20:04
Old salt
I am sure it was George Parker on Camperdown. She was with the Med DF in 1961 when I was in LION.
There were many storys (and myths) about him, one was that Mountbatten had given him permission to hoist a copper ball when he was onboard whatever ship he was serving on. True or false ???
Met him once and he just seemed another old bewhiskered AB !!!
Regards
Gerry
Jan Steer
10-11-2008, 07:20
We all know that we serve IN a ship, not ON!!!
I do not live on a house.
You cannot be on a submarine unless you want to swim home
Horrified Chris
On a ship Chris, an abbreviation for 'onboard'
best
Jan
Gerry, you are probably correct, I knew of him when I was in Sluys 1951.:o:)
Chris Howat
10-11-2008, 20:01
Jan, land lubbers talk about being on a ship. Sailors talk about being in or onboard. It is one of the ways you can identify a sailor out of uniform, or used to be
Cheers Chris
In a ship, is the mark of a true sailor. Today, people who should know better say on. The other teeth grinder is "The HMS Nonsuch" its either the Nonsuch or HMS Nonsuch, so there!!!:eek::eek::p:p
Picked up the bit about the old sailor, George, and it set me wondering. I did know a George Bates when I was in the Survey Vessel HMS Franklin in 1947/48 and he often prefaced his remarks with, 'I remember when Beatty started the Grand Fleet Fund'. I never did find out just how old he was.
That, of course, jogged the memory. In 1948 the survey season consisted of surveying from Rochester Bridge to Sheerness Light so the work was conducted by the survey launches and Franklin was alongside in Chatham or moored in Short Reach. A new Supply Officer was appointed and, as there was not a lot of work for the stokers, I was loaned to the ships stores to carry out a stores muster. Most of it was straightforward checking the stores against the entries in the Rate Books. One item that threw me was an entry in the Permanent Rate Book which read 'Fisgig - one in number'. I hadn't a clue so I sought enlightenment from the Stores Officer, various seamen POs, Survey ratings and Survey Officers. I won't detail their replies but they all seemed to think I was being facetious until I produced the Rate Book. In the end the Buffer said, 'Have you asked Georgie Bates?'
I found Georgie in his caboose and showed him the entry. His words were, 'It looks like Daddy Neptune's Trident'. He was right, it was propped up behind the desk in the stores. He explained that it was a Fish Gig or Spear with five prongs. The outers could be unscrewed to make it a single prong throwing spear for clear water. With three or five prongs it was used to feel along the bottom in muddy water to disturb flat fish and then they could be detected and speared. I never got to see it used as I left to do the 'Hard Lump' (Leading Stokers Course) on St Mary's Island. The Survey Navy was decidedly different.
Ken
dougmari
24-12-2008, 19:46
On or In - during my time officers served IN & the rest of us were ON
Was a long time in the RN . Ships and Submarines I was always 'on' them .
Shore establishments --at them
On going to them it was 'to the Nonsuch or whatever ship name '
As previous mentioned 'on ' is an abbreviation for 'onboard' .
Inboard was considered as ashore .
Fred
Polycell
01-01-2009, 18:13
Jan, land lubbers talk about being on a ship. Sailors talk about being in or onboard. It is one of the ways you can identify a sailor out of uniform, or used to be
Cheers Chris
What are you on about muppett?
I served in boats for 24 years and was on Revenge on Repulse on Otter on Finwhale and ON Otus. Hardly a landlubber as you called it!!
I spent 12 years in the RN and was ON Undaunted, ON Naiad, ON Russell and ON Hermes.
I was also AT Ganges, At Vernon and At Warrior
Like a few others in this Forum (Or is it ON this Forum?), I don't consider myself as a landlubber
Jan Steer
02-01-2009, 12:07
So there we are then. I guess you've been told Chris, ha! ha!
I served in the fleet for 25 years and agree with what those above have said.
"IN" a ship was a term used by naval officers in my experience; the rest of us always said, "ON".
The officers were always referred to (out of their earshot anyway) as "grunters". This was a good-humoured, if less than respectful, reference to those pigs in charge in Orwell's "Animal Farm" and doubtless thought up by some well-educated national serviceman.
keep smiling
Jan
As both rating & officer, I used to say "on" a ship, never thinking it right or wrong. I confess to being pedantic & now using "in". You all must have heard the saying,"I careth not for thy predicament Jack, I am inboard!" What that suggests I do not know.
A thought has just occurred to my feeble brain. I am sure that we always said on ships and in boats. Either submarines or small boats.
John Odom
11-01-2009, 21:21
My information is strictly US ussage. "In" boats. "On" ships. except "In" Submarines.
My information is strictly US ussage. "In" boats. "On" ships. except "In" Submarines.
The first quote is same as UK "in boats" -collectively as being a Submariner
however it was "on" Rorqual ,Finwhale etc as a crewmember
Fred
The first quote is same as UK "in boats" -collectively as being a Submariner
however it was "on" Rorqual ,Finwhale etc as a crewmember
Fred
I served 5 years with HMSm Resolution, which had two crews - Port and Starboard. One was the "ON" crew for 3 months, while the other was the "OFF" crew (who lived in ashore accommodation at Faslane). Every 3 months, the crews swapped over from one to the other.
So....were we IN Resolution, ON Resolution, or OFF Resolution? :)
Keith
The man you are wondering about was William Henry Parker born in 1901and joined the Navy in 1918. He was eventually nicknamed George because of his resemblance to King George V. He was discharged in1962 aged 60 years and died at the age of 79years.
There was a full article about this wonderful man in the Navy News written by Geof Palmer who was the Supply Officer in HMS St Kitts in 1953 when George was an AB. After George and Geof had both retired, Geof decided to research George's life and times and I quote;This must be the first ever biography of a naval rating who was never promoted above able rate.
This was such a fascinating article that I had to print it off the computer to keep for ever. I have a reference number as
http://www.navynews.co.uk/articles/2001/0111/1001112801.asp
Regards
Alan
There was a Ch.Stoker on Ark Royal (big one) his name was Macinerny ? I believe he joined the ship when she first commissioned, he was still there in 1963, so he had been onboard then for 8 yrs. I don't know when he left the Ark, maybe someone does.
I served on the Ark for the same commission as Chris. I was a Greenie and the Chief Elec was named Taff Davies, he was a POEL when I joined and he was rated up during the commission. He was in charge of Elec stores and spare gear. He had served on the Ark from the first commission and did his courses when the ship was in refit.
I left the Ark after de-storing her for the 3 year long refit which started in 1967 and he was still onboard then. I recently came across a photo of the
Electrical branch on the Eagle and he was a Chief Elec on the Eagle, presumably while the Ark was in long refit. I don't know if he ended up on the Ark again after her long refit:confused:
I also knew a buffer who was on the berryhead .He had done two full commissions on the Ark and a little bit besides probably when she was docked down .His name was Taff hayward CPO
Nigaramus
22-10-2010, 20:54
I served 11 years on Orpheus, 5 on Odin and 8 on Opossum.
stontamar
22-10-2010, 21:21
We all know that we serve IN a ship, not ON!!!
I do not live on a house.
You cannot be on a submarine unless you want to swim home
Horrified Chris
According the Royal Navalese (A Glossary of forecastle and Quarterdeck Words and Phrases) by John Irving published in 1946 the following applies:
In a ship. Part of the complement of one of H.M. Ships. An officer or rating may go 'on board' but he is actually, never 'on' a warship; irrespective of the size of the ship he is always 'in' her. This is a peculiar and very personal phrase but it is as essentially pure 'Royal Navalese' as the dropping of the definite article, 'The' when naming a warship.
May of course have changed since 1946!!
Regards
stontamar
johnny07
17-03-2011, 12:13
I think that the modern day sailor can't spend too much time away on a ship as he has got to get back to recharge his mobile phone and ipod.
James Daly
17-03-2011, 12:57
I've often heard it said locally - particularly by my Grandad - that you can tell how often a sailor was away for and how long for by the gaps between the ages of his children. Thats certainly true with my Grandad and his siblings.
I've been looking through some Oral History Interviews I'm writing, and one of them is with a lady whos father was killed on the Royal Oak. The interviewer asks her 'did you miss your father as you were growing up after he was killed?' and the answer from the lady was that he had hardly been around anyway as he was at sea so often.
INVINCIBLE
17-03-2011, 17:27
In a ship, is the mark of a true sailor. Today, people who should know better say on. The other teeth grinder is "The HMS Nonsuch" its either the Nonsuch or HMS Nonsuch, so there!!!:eek::eek::p:p
Keith,
I see that you served in Sluys, an early Battle Class destroyer. When I joined up you we were told that officially you were 'in' a ship unless it happened to be the later Battle class destroyer HMS Aisne.
Polycell
18-03-2011, 07:42
Keith,
I see that you served in Sluys, an early Battle Class destroyer. When I joined up you we were told that officially you were 'in' a ship unless it happened to be the later Battle class destroyer HMS Aisne.
I think this statement needs explaining to an ex submariner! Please!
johnny07
18-03-2011, 12:17
I think this statement needs explaining to an ex submariner! Please!
I'm not sure but I think he means that inane means stupid :D:D:D
I was asked by a young American girl in an Orlando shop how much time I had spent at sea. She also asked how many children I had. After a bit of deep thinking she said how did I find the time to have children. It took a while for the penny to drop when I replied "It only takes a couple of minutes!"
Polycell
18-03-2011, 15:05
I was asked by a young American girl in an Orlando shop how much time I had spent at sea. She also asked how many children I had. After a bit of deep thinking she said how did I find the time to have children. It took a while for the penny to drop when I replied "It only takes a couple of minutes!"Two whole minutes a?
INVINCIBLE
18-03-2011, 15:13
I think this statement needs explaining to an ex submariner! Please!
Thanks Polycell I joined up a long time ago, so perhaps Navy was different then.
Happy to pop in, or should I say pop on when on my way down through the Limousin and explain.
Cheers
alan_research
18-03-2011, 16:11
In or On?
Should be 'In' unless drafted to ACTIVE, AISNE or OPPORTUNE when it's 'On'
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